Chairman of Ways and Means speaking in Commons Chamber>>"I now call the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, the Right Honourable George Osborne."
Chairman of Ways and Means, Lindsay Hoyle MP>> Here it is.
A speech.
The House of Commons.
The Chancellor comes to the Commons where he kick-starts the process of reviewing and
renewing the taxes for the year.
Of course some taxes are taken differently - if we look at income tax and corporation
tax, they are annual and have to be renewed each year anyhow - but what we're talking
about is the other parts of the budget as well.
The Budget always takes place between March and April.
It's always on a Wednesday and it’s always after PMQs.
And of course PMQs is already heated.
It's already a full Chamber.
Chamber: >>"Before I call the Chancellor of the Exchequer it is convenient to remind honourable
members that copies of the Budget resolutions will be available in the Vote Office at the
end of the Chancellor's speech.
It may also be appropriate to remind honourable members that it is the norm not to intervene
on the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Leader of the Opposition…"
Chairman of Ways and Means >>And the Chancellor will then come on and he will give us his
review of the UK economy, how it’s performing, how well it's done and all he believes has
been good throughout that year.
And then he will go on to forecast the future year: the year ahead and the year beyond that.
And of course everybody else is trying to do their projections.
And what you'll see is the Leader of the Opposition busily scribbling down as he listens to the
forecasts.
And that's what makes it of great interest.
And then of course we'll get onto the details of change of taxation.
That's what everybody's waiting for.
They want to know the detail of change in taxation.
Of course this is where it's of great interest to MPs and to the constituents that we represent.
But it goes much wider than that.
Businesses are listening and other countries are listening.
What effect will it have on them, let alone the people of this country?
It is a great moment.
It is an hour of time that seems to be over very quickly.
It is a very quick hour when you’re sat in the Chair and people are on edge as they
listen.
What's always interesting about MPs is they're busy waiting and scribbling down with a pen
and paper – ‘What effect will this have on my constituents?’
And of course once they've got the details they're ready to dash out of the Chamber;
there's not a phone to be had around the Chamber as they've already pre-arranged interviews
with the radio stations, TV stations, the local newspaper.
It's about the MP who can get that news out there first and get it to their constituents;
making sure that they know what's been said.
So it is a great day and it certainly is an hour of enjoyment.Whatever people might say
- as much as you're on edge - it is one of enjoyment to actually chair.
That statement usually lasts for an hour but during that hour it will be very tense; it
will be very heated.
We know what it's going to do: at one stage it's going to erupt then at another stage
it'll go calm and quiet.
It's about just trying to keep it.
I recognise there'll be heat in the Chamber - it's an electrifying moment.
What we've got to do is allow the Chamber to breathe but try and ensure that it doesn't
get out of control.
Chamber>>"Order, can I just say to the back row - and a couple of people in particular
- that the panto season isn't for another nine months and if auditions do take place,
can they take place outside the Chamber?
Chancellor of the Exchequer."
Chairman of Ways and Means>> So it's about striking that balance and hopefully I've managed
to achieve that in the past and I hope to achieve it in the future.
So it's keeping that balance with us as we go through each part of the Chancellor's statement.
Why is it that it’s the Chairman of Ways and Means and not Mr Speaker?
Well of course it's a historical event.
We go back and it's one of the oldest titles in Parliament is the Chairman of Ways and
Means.
And people will always say to me: what is the chairman of ways and means?
Well it's the way and the means of collecting taxation and we can trace its origins right
back to 1641.
We can go right back then and Parliament deciding there wasn't something quite right.That here
was the Speaker taking a budget on taxation and that they felt that the Speaker became
very wealthy after tax had been raised and so did the King.
So the question was: why do we allow this to continue?
And we know one of the original Chairmen of Ways and Means was the Rt Hon Richard Hampden
who actually did one in 1687 - he oversaw the Budget then.
And that was Parliament saying: ‘We want our person - we want our person to be in charge
of ways and means and taxation.’
And that's where it came from.
They didn't trust the Speaker.
It's not that we don't trust the speaker now - of course not.
What's happened is by convention it continues.
After the scrapping of the committee, in 1967, of the Chairman of Ways and Means, what we
did was we allowed the Chairman of Ways and Means to continue to chair the Budget on Budget
day.
And that's why I have the privilege - and I say, an absolute privilege - of chairing
the debate within the House of Commons Chamber.
It's some tax changes – let’s talk about some tax changes.
It's like the rates on alcohol and tobacco coming into effect immediately.
And fuel.
Those are the big ones that matter to people.
So it is about the collection of taxes that matter.
And then everybody says - 'Ah well, you expect the cigarettes to go up.’
‘Fags have gone up again’ - or ‘Are we gonna have the wine increased?
Or the beer?’
And the big argument is, are we going to see a reduction in beer again?
So that's what the public are looking to see.
And of course we've got MPs that represent constituents’ interests, where they've got
breweries and that, and quite rightly they say - and the Scottish MPs will say – ‘But
what about Scottish whisky as well?’
So there's great interest in the provisional collection of taxes.
So what happens is, straight after the Chancellor's finished his speech - before the Leader of
Opposition gets up what we’ve got to do, I - as I'm in the chair - I'll put a single
motion to the House asking for agreement to these changes - this is called the provisional
collection of taxes.
Chamber >>"Under the Standing Order No 51, the first motion entitled 'Provisional Collection
of Taxes' must be decided without debate.
Will the Chancellor of the Exchequer move formally?
I think that's formally.
The Question is that pursuant to section 5 of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act
1968, provisional statutory affect shall be given to the following motions: A) Alcoholic
Liquor duty rates motion number 50, B) Tobacco products duty rates motion number 51.
As many as are of that opinion say Aye... of the Contrary, No..
The Ayes have it.
The Ayes have it.”
Chairman of Ways and Means >>By convention this is agreed to by all sides of the House.
Everybody in the House agrees to this because they want to get into the debate and they
also want to hear what the Leader of the Opposition has got to say.
So really it is a ‘rubber-stamping’ vote - it does take place - and that means that
the changes to the duty come into effect at six o'clock on that day.
So of course the public - that's the one they wanted to know.
They wanted to know, ‘Am I going to pay more for my cigarettes?
Is a pint going to be cheaper?
Is it going to be more expensive?
Can I afford to have a glass of whisky or a glass of wine?
Also the big one is: ‘Is it going to be frozen again, the fuel escalator?
That's what people talk about.
‘Do I have to dash out and go and fill up the car before six o’ clock?’
And that's why we see the big queues - or not.
And that's why people have got great interest.
That's why people will be by their radio, by their television.
And of course those MPs will say: 'Unfortunately, this has gone up’ – or: ‘Fortunately,
this has gone down’ - or it could be that it's frozen.
So that's what the provisional tax is all about.
The Debate on the Budget Resolutions.
People are wondering what is that?
And what we talk about, the Leader of the Opposition then responds.
By tradition it's the Leader of the Opposition, not the Shadow Chancellor, which is always
confusing for people.
But this is another great historical event: the Leader of the Opposition gets up with,
of course, the Shadow Chancellor pointing out, passing notes, whispering in the ear,
ready for the Leader of the Opposition to stand up.
So the Leader of the Opposition then leads off, does his piece.
Chamber >>"I now call the Rt Hon Leader of the Opposition, Mr Ed Miliband."
Chairman of Ways and Means >>And then, of course, we've got 4 days of debate which are
held on the budget resolutions.
These are the basic parts of the budget.
It is about renewing or changing taxes - that's the part that matters.
And then each day there is a different wide subject for the debate, such as education
or business.
So those are the parts where members will show their interest.
Those who want to specialise in education will make sure they get in early for that
debate if they want to take part.
And that's why you get a turnover of MPs who'll have specialist interests.
And that's why the four days maybe wide but actually they are broadened out on the key
subjects of what the budget has delivered.
At the end of four days - and I think that's what's interesting - as we finish the four
days of debate, the House is asked to agree the resolutions.
There are the usual votes on the controversial resolutions.
That's when both sides in the Whips Offices will have geared up - how are they going to
vote, when are they going to vote - and making sure they will maximise the vote on those.
By agreeing to the resolutions at the end of four days, the House gives temporary effect
to the provisions.
So, the provisions have come in, the orders are set, but they're not permanent.
That's why the provision can only be made by permanent legislation which then will take
place through the Finance Bill which will then bring it in.
The Finance Bill is required to give permanent effect to the Budget resolutions and to make
the Chancellor's tax proposals into law.
So, we know previously they were temporary; this is about making them permanent.
And of course the Finance Bill goes through the same processes as any other bill but,
for its committee stage, the most important and the controversial measures – which are
the most interesting parts to MPs, the ones that have really fired up members of either
side - that is taken on the floor of the House, not up in committee.
Chamber >>"We begin with New Clause 1 with which it will be convenient to consider New
Clause 5.
Christopher Leslie to move.”
"Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker..."
Chairman of Ways and Means >>The rest of the Bill is then taken up in the committee room.
It is a big committee.
So previously for the most controversial all the MPs can join in.
But then we have the Finance Bill committee made up many members who've got a keen interest.
That will take place in the committee corridor and that's upstairs within the House of Commons.
Of course, once we've cleared all this - it goes through the Commons - it then goes to
the Lords.
But as we know, the Lords is there to do some scrutiny, but it is a purely formal exercise.
They have no right and jurisdiction over the raising of taxation.
So it is purely from a scrutiny point of view that it goes to the Lords.
Some people call it rubber-stamping, I would give them more significance than that.
This is because the Commons has the sole right to initiate and amend bills with a primary
purpose to levy taxes or authorise expenditure.
That is the key.
The Lords will have a debate on Second Reading, but they will not go through the bill clause-by-clause
and will not make any amendments to the Bill.
So, as I say, the primary and sole legislation belongs to the House of Commons but we do
allow the Lords scrutiny.