>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY, WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW."
MY NEXT GUEST IS THE EMMY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST WHO
HOSTS "THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER."
PLEASE WELCOME ARI MELBER!
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Stephen: WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
NICE TO MEET YOU.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> GREAT TO BE HERE.
>> Stephen: WE TAPED THIS SHOW A LITTLE EARLIER IN THE DAY.
ARE YOU ABOUT TO DO YOUR SHOW OR HAVE YOU DONE YOUR SHOW?
>> I SKIPPED MY SHOW FOR YOU, STEPHEN.
>> Stephen: WHAT!
WOW, I ROBBED-- I ROBBED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OF THEIR NIGHTLY
MELBER.
>> IT'S WEIRD BECAUSE WE HAD RUPAUL BOOKED.
>> Stephen: SO SORRY.
SORRY, I SCOOPED YOU.
YOU'RE MSNBC'S CHIEF LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, BESIDES HOSTING
YOUR OWN SHOW.
IT'S GREAT TO HAVE AN EXPERT ON RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE THERE'S A
LEGAL QUESTION THEY HAVE AND IT'S A BIT TECHNICAL.
IT'S WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW?
( LAUGHTER )
ARE THERE STILL LAWS, ARI MELBER?
HOUSE JUDICIARY VOTES TOMORROW TO SEE IF BARR SHOULD BE HELD IN
CONTEMPT BECAUSE BARR SAID, "I'M NOT GOING TO COME TESTIFY."
THEY SUBPOENAED HIM, AND HE SAID SUBPOENA-SCHMEA, I'M NOT
COMING."
WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY HOLD HIM IN CONTEMPT, ANYTHING?
>> HERE'S WHAT'S GOING ON.
BOB MUELLER FOUND EVIDENCE THAT DONALD TRUMP COMMITTED FIVE
FELONIES IN OFFICE.
CONGRESS SUBPOENAED, AS YOU MENTIONED, THE REST OF THE
MUELLER REPORT.
>> Stephen: AREN'T THERE 10 EXAMPLES OF PROBABLE
OBSTRUCTION?
>> 10 EXAMPLES OF OBSTRUCTION, AND THEN ABOUT FIVE OR SEVEN,
DPE PENDING ON HOW YOU COUNT, WHERE MUELLER SAID THERE WAS
"SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE" OF ALL THE THINGS YOU NEED TO MAKE IT A
CRIME.
>> Stephen: OKAY, OKAY.
>> BARR SAYS, "NO, I'M NOT GOING TO SHARE IT WITH AND AND I'M
GOING TO SKIP THE HEARING."
AND CONGRESS SAID WE MAY HOLD YOU IN CONTEMPT TO FORCE YOU TO
COME IN COURT AND SOME PEOPLE IN CONGRESS ARE THINKING ABOUT
IMPEACHING THE PRESIDENT SO THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS GOING
ON.
>> Stephen: I UNDERSTAND THAT PART.
BUT IF THEY SAY, "ARE YOU IN CONTEMPT, BILL BARR."
AND THEN WHAT?
SO WHAT?
DOES THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH GO, "GOOD FUR?"
OR CAN SOMETHING HAPPEN TO HIM?
ARE THERE FINES?
IS THERE JAIL TIME?
WHEN SOMEONE IS IN CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS, CAN'T THEY GO TO JAIL?
>> SO WHEN NORMAL PEOPLE ARE HELD IN CONTEMPT, THEY GO TO
JAIL IMMEDIATELY, LIKE IN "MY COUSIN VINNY," SAME HOUR.
>> Stephen: VERY SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES HERE, YES.
>> FOR SOME REASONS THAT ARE GOOD REASONS, THE PRESIDENT, THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL AREN'T IN THAT "NORMAL PEOPLE" CATEGORY, BUT
IT'S A REAL THING.
BECAUSE ONCE CONGRESS HOLDS THAT VOTE, IT SENDS IT TO THE COURTS,
WHERE AN INDEPENDENT JUDGE CAN RULE AND CAN FORCE EITHER THE
DOCUMENTS TO COME OUT OR THOSE OTHER SANCTIONS YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT.
>> Stephen: BUT HOW DO YOU FORCE IT IT?
WHAT'S THE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM?
YOU KNOW, WHAT IS IT-- WAS IT ANDREW JACKSON SAID, "THE
SUPREME COURT HAS PASSED THE RULING.
NOW LET THEM ENFORCE IT."
SO HOW IS IT ENFORCED?
>> THIS IS A QUESTION YOU HAVE BEEN CIRCLING HERE ON THIS SHOW.
I MEAN, I SAW YOU YOU TALK TO BEMLY BASLIN ABOUT IT.
>> Stephen: I'M CURIOUS.
ISN'T THAT THE DEFINITION OF A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS.
YOU GET TO WHERE THE CONSTITUTION DID NOT DEAL WITH
THIS LEL OF OBSTRUCTION AND THE SYSTEM BREAKS DOWN.
>> I WOULD PUT IT IN TWO CATEGORIES.
IF YOU WANT FWHAT YOU WANT IS CONTROLLED SOLELY BY THE
PRESIDENT, YOU CAN END UP IN THAT CRISE, AND THAT'S A
PROBLEM.
MOST OF THESE THINGS DON'T DEPEND ON THE PRESIDENT ALONE.
SO IFUE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT IN THE MONOLOGUE-- IF THEY LOSE IN
COURT THE BATTLE OVER TRUMP'S TAX RETURNS.
>> Stephen: YES.
>> HE'S NOT THE THE ONLY PERSON HOLDING THEM.
THEY'RE NOT JUST UNDER HIS BED.
THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE-- ACCOUNTING FIRMS, THE I.R.S.--
HAVE THEM, AND THOSE PEOPLE COULD BE JAILED IN REAL TIME THE
WAY THE PRESIDENT CAN'T.
AND OUR SYSTEM IN THAT WAY FORCES OTHER PEOPLE TO FOLLOW
THE ORDER.
>> Stephen: NOW, McCONNELL TODAY SAID--
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
CONSEQUENCES.
>> APPLAUSE?
APPLAUSE FOR THE CONSTITUTION, STEPHEN.
>> Stephen: WELL, I THINK PEOPLE ARE THIRSTY FOR ANY
CONSEQUENCES BECAUSE YOU SEE--
YOU SEE ABUSE OF POWER, YOU SEE ABUSE OF POWER AND FLAUNT THE
CONSTITUTIONAL NORMS IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AND NOTHING SEEMS TO
HAPPEN.
>> AND SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST THIRSTY.
THAT'S WHY THEY POST SO MANY PICTURES ONLINE.
>> Stephen: THAT'S TRUE.
McCONNELL SAID TODAY, CASE CLOSED ON MUELLER.
TRUMP TWEETED MUELLER SHOULD NOT TESTIFY.
DOES TRUMP HAVE THE LEGAL TIEBILITY STOP MUELLER FROM
TESTIFYING, EVEN WHEN HE'S NOT-- NO LONGER A D.O.J. EMPLOYEE?
>> NO, NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT.
>> Stephen: OKAY, SO MUELLER WILL TESTIFY AT SOME POINT.
( APPLAUSE )
YOUR GUESS.
>> THE CONGRESS CAN SUBPOENA HIM, AND THERE WOULD BE ALMOST
NO VALID WADE TO STOP HIM FROM TESTIFY.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ).
>> Stephen: PYONGYANG WHAT DO THE PEOPLE OVER AT MSNBC SAY?
DO YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES THINK IMPEACHMENT IS A GOOD IDEA.
WHAT'S THE VIBE OVER THERE?
>> THE VIBE?
>> Stephen: WHAT'S THE VIBE OVER AT MS-- IF I CAN USE JAZZ
TERMS RIGHT HERE.
WHAT IS THE VIBE OVER THERE?
IMPEACH OR NO IMPEACH?
>> I THINK THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE MUELLER REPORT
THAT THE PRESIDENT COMMITTED CRIMES IN OFFICE.
>> Stephen: SO YOU SAY IMPEACHMENT?
>> SO THAT IS A THING THAT'S -- >> Stephen: IT'S A BAD THING.
>> A BAD THING.
YOU KNOW WHAT, I'LL GO FURTHER.
IT'S BADE THING, STEVE GLEN OKAY, GREAT.
>> THAT'S A THING THAT THE REPORT PROVIDES EVIDENCE OF.
AND THEN THE CONGRESS HAS TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO
DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
I THINK IT IS FASCINATING AND KIND OF SILLY THAT THE DEMOCRATS
IN CONGRESS HAVE TALKED FOR SO LONG ABOUT WANTING TO GET
MUELLER'S REPORT.
THEY GOT IT.
AND IT WASN'T LIKE ONE FELONY, WHICH WOULDN'T BE OKAY.
LIKE, THAT'S NOT COOL.
BUT IT WAS SEVERAL FELONIES IN THE REPORT.
AND NOW THEY'RE SAYING, "WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO IMPEACH BECAUSE
OF POLITICS."
I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD REASON TO DO ANYTHING, REALLY.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) BUT... AND THERE'S ALWAYS A
"BUT" AFTER THE APPLAUSE-- IT'S UP TO CONGRESS AND THE COUNTRY
TO FIG THAT YOU ARE OUT.
WE'RE NOT REPORTING IT OUT GUNNING FOR ONE OUTCOME.
>> Stephen: REALLY?
>> YEAH.
( LAUGHTER ).
>> Stephen: YOU GUYS DON'T VAWK AT ALL OVER AT MSNBC?
YOU GUYS-- COME ON, YOU GUYS BANG A DRUM OVER THERE
SOMETIMES.
>> WE DEFINITELY HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFILIATED WITH CAUSES AND
PARTIES AND ARE ANALYSTS AND SOME PEOPLE ARE MAKE THE CASE.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
>> BUT I CAN JUST TALK ABOUT THE BEAT?
>> Stephen: SURE.
>> INSTEAD OF THE WHOLE THING.
>> Stephen: IT'S THE ONLY SHOW I CARE ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
>> ON "THE BEAT" WE'RE NOT ADVOCATING FOR ANYTHING.
>> Stephen: "THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER" AIRS WEEKNIGHTS ON
MSNBC.
ARI MELBER, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.
WHAT YOU GOT?