Hey again, it's Jason from Fraser Valley Rose Farm. Well, I've been working on something and I'm ready to show it to you today
It's a chart of the different varieties and classes of roses. To this point
I've been doing them individually. So I do a video on the damasks, the gallicas, the centifolias. This time
I put them all together onto one chart that shows you how they are related to each other
I hope you find it useful. You can let me know
Okay, I zoomed in on the chart here and here's the way I hope you can use it is by selecting a rose group that
we're talking about like for instance the Portland's in the center here and placing into the context of the other Rose classes and
Families going back through history
So the Portland's for instance if I follow it up
You can see following the red lines upwards that they are the offspring of the autumn damask on the left here and on the right
That they are the offspring of the gallicas as well
so the autumn damasks and the gallicas together made the Portland's and the Portland's if you follow them downwards to the
Related offspring classes they were an important
Predecessor of the hybrid perpetual class so that's the way I hope you can use this
But to make it make sense. What I'll do is I'm just going to take it right from the top down to the bottom
Going through the groups and classes
By their eras, so here I have the ancient cultivated Rose classes
And these are the ones that were recorded before
1580 and
Would have been the roses that were known to
The historical Romans Egyptians and the Middle East as well as China although again
We're not a hundred percent. Sure the further back we go in time the less certain we are about these roses
I'll give a note on the China's here is that we've divided them here into two different classes the teas and the
china roses the teas being the taller
more climbing type roses with the pointed buds
That became important and later breeding of the hybrid teas and the China roses just like a catch-all group
That includes all of the other roses that were cultivated in China now, we only know a handful of them
as they came into the trade in Europe and
Entered into the breeding of the other garden roses
now in the red so I I color-coded all the ones that originated in China for sure in the blue and
The red is to indicate all the ones that came through that sort of Middle Eastern ancient civilization of the Mediterranean group
so these would have been known to say the Babylonians the Egyptians the
the Greeks and the Romans and
the four groups that all highlight here are the Gallicas
the Albas the Damasks and
Their cousins the autumn damask and a is a variety that blooms not just once but blooms twice in the year
so
There's some debate about whether that really is something that was present in the ancient world or whether it came a little bit later
In any case I've I've indicated it here because it becomes important in the offspring
so moving on to the next group here, I thought
Those are that's the sum total of all the roses that were basically present before 1580
the other old garden Rose class is the ones that were introduced or recorded from 1580 to
1867 that defining date
1867 is the date that they sort of estimate the hybrid teas took over and that's the era of the modern roses
So here in the old garden roses
following along that same red line from those four
original
Middle Eastern and European roses
Came sort of a catch-all category called the centifolias and the centifolias emerged in Holland around 1580
I've done a video on that one separately so I won't go into great detail on it here
But it's quite certain that the damasks and the gallicas were in its parentage
also
They did by genetic testing establish that Rosa moschata a wild rose Rosa Phoenicia and Rosa canina
So you'll see in the orange there
I've placed any wild ancestors that I could track down as further parents into that group and it's quite
likely as well at the Alba roses featured somewhere in the centifolias is the first centifolia is being described around 1580 and
They had a sport of the centifolias that was described around 1720
That's the centifolia Moss roses with that mossy
scented covering on the
on the on the buds and the stems of the rose, so
From there. There's only one more I have to describe that's in the group. That's sort of pure-blooded
From that middle eastern european parentage and that's the portland roses and that was bred a little bit later on
we believe
From the autumn damask and the Gallica rose and the interesting thing about it is that it seems to have taken after its autumn damask
Ancestor and be a reblooming rose. So it's kind of an anachronism amongst the
Middle Eastern and European roses that it was a reblooming rose. That's a characteristic. That's much more closely associated with the China's
Speaking of the China's it's around this time here that we start to see the china roses
arriving through trading back in europe
so the plant collectors went too busily about the world plundering other cultures and societies and and grabbing their plant material and
Some of the China roses, although they were probably purchased legally from from nurseries in Shanghai
came back around this time and
some of them ended up
Here where you see the Bourbon class and the Bourbon class was bred
Initially actually not in Europe
But was an accidental crossbreeding on the isle of bourbon or reunion as I guess it's called now
from the autumn damask and
a
china rose and I think the China was persons pink, I think or 'Old blush' and
That was around
1820 at just about the same time over here. We have an American
Breeding of the China rose which was the Noisette rose around at the same time
1820 bred also from Parsons pink and
Rosa moschata, that's a wild ancestor there
So we have the Noisette roses and the bourbon roses as kind of the pathway of the newly arriving China roses
Being bred into the breeding line so you can see a green line coming there from the bottom right of the Noisettes
Also the green line moving from the Bourbons. So those were two of the ancestors along with the Portland roses and
The gallicas way up here that featured prominently in this group that I'm putting in the center now
The hybrid perpetuals which were sort of a catch-all category
Grabbing all of the new china breeding and all of the european breeding and putting them into one category
once they had achieved
Reblooming characteristics from the china's and also from the portland's I guess you could say so around 1840
that's when that big
catch-all happened with the hybrid perpetuals
Now at around the same time I should just catch you up on the left here
Is that the Noisette roses had been
used to breed with
This ancestor up here the tea roses and became sort of the pathway of the tea roses
coming into the breeding lines of europe
So that was the Tea-Noisettes and there's no certain date on when that arrived the almost
immediately from the Noisette roses being bred started back crossing and breeding over to the tea roses and
that there
Became a very important
Parent to i'm going to follow it down to the right here
You can see the green line that comes from there and then crosses it with the hybrid perpetual
Becomes the parent of the hybrid tea rose, which is the basically the dominant
Modern rose category. So at this point here i've described all of the roses of
the
Old rose classes except for this
bad boy on the far right here rose a spinosissima or the scots
Rose's I'll come back to that in a little while. It was certainly bred in that same time period
But it's not really related at least in a major way to any of the other groups
So in order to not disrupt what I'm saying here, I'm gonna continue onward down
To the hybrid teas now the hybrid teas are an interesting group
because once again they come from that catch-all group of the hybrid perpetual
but they also come from the Tea-Noisettes so they just have a whole bunch of different genetics in them and
we didn't stop right there because if you look on the right here the hybrid perpetual branched off and
There was Rosa foetida persiana
Was bred into them and that happened around
1900s. So the very first the earliest of the hybrid teas were bred around 1867
But the breeding of the hybrid perpetual did not stop at that point
they were bred in with the
Hybrid, the sorry into the Pernetiana group which brought in a bunch of different colors. In fact it brought in a lot of the
Yellows and oranges and really sharpened up the red a little bit and gave it some more saturation
Until you got the really full range of the colors that are available in the hybrid teas today
They also take the blame for black spot being present in roses. Although I'm not sure that's a fair reputation
Now I should go back over to the China side now and just see what's happened over there
so following down from the
Straight up from the China ones
we have I'm gonna actually lead you back up to the newest at roses because if you follow the orange line here then was that
sorta later bred back down
into a
Rosa multiflora hybrid the hybrid multifloras along with a wild rose that Rosa
Multiflora hybrid became a really important parent because it was used afterwards for two things. He's used to the hybrid
Well two florists and it was used for the poly antha class and the polyantha class
takes some of its ancestry from that multiflora and some from
rosa from the china rose
so if you look at those two, they're
the polyanthas
were used in making
I'm gonna just go up one a second here
If you take this frame here and say the polyanthas became a parent of the floribundas along with the hybrid teas and the floribundas
sort of
Dominated a little bit later than the hybrid tea
So the hybrid teas have become sort of the large flowered dominant group and the floribundas became the cluster flower
Dominant group and that cluster flowering came from you guessed it
Rosa multiflora on the other side that Rosa multiflora and that's cluster flower characteristics
Became an important parent of the hybrid musk-roses
Okay, I'm almost exhausted on this side here except that there's one more
thread to pull which is if you look in the center there at Rosa chinensis Rouletti
that one is a
selection of the China rose that was bred along with Polyanthas and floribundas and all sorts of other parents to make the
miniature roses and the miniature roses are sort of a
Catch-all of every rose that has become quite small
So I'm representing it with three different parents here
but it in fact has plenty of different parents and has become a parent itself into other classes and
finally, I'm gonna say that between the hybrid tea and
The floribunda they recombined those at a certain point and that made the grandiflora roses
which are both large flowered and
cluster flowering so that covers
basically all of it now I did say I would go back and
Talk about these guys on the right here. Now I've used red
To talk about those of European and Middle Eastern origin
I talked about blue as those what were descended from the China roses?
the orange I'm using to represent those that are descended from
other species that were neither from the China's nor from the
Middle Eastern European side
So this one here the Scots rose was descended from rosa spinosissima and with a few exceptions was pretty much its own group
with a lot of doubles and around the early
1800s became quite a fashion in
England particularly
but also throughout Europe and I think there was something like three or four hundred different varieties introduced in this period so it actually
Became quite a large group for a time and down here. The rugosa's also entered into the breeding
Melee somewhere around 1890 and from there
There were a lot of breeders tried their hand at it and it became an important parent of a lot of the shrub roses
today
I have one other group here that I'm going to include
Although it's debatable whether it should be included in this way is the English roses
That's on the bottom right there. These are the David Austin roses and he started breeding them around
1961 and what he did is like any good breeder these days. He didn't pay much mind to where the parents came from
by class
he wouldn't hesitate to include anything that he thought was a promising parent so he took some from the red which is from the
European and Middle Eastern origin he took some from the blue certainly that were from the tea in China
origins he took some that were from the orange in this case primarily from the hybrid musk group and
He took some from the green of course, which includes all the modern floribundas grandiflora
's and hybrid teas so he wasn't choosy about where he got his genetics
I think he was just very choosy about what made a good rose and so
What they've done?
In terms of classifying his roses is that kind of lumped them into a group called the shrub roses
Which also include the hybrid roses which also include the Scots roses
Which also include the hybrid Musk's because they don't know what else to do with these
plants have really really complex breeding and
That so the David Austin roses have gone into that. I'm gonna make one more comment here
Is that no matter how you search this list You're not gonna find anything that says
climbing rose
That's a tough one because a climbing characteristic is not a breeding of a rose
It actually is just the way that the rose grows so you will find in fact crime and grandiflora
Climbing floribundas like climbing iceberg climbing hybrid teas. You'll definitely find
climbing
hybrid musks you'll find
Climbers and the tea noisettes and noisette groups. You'll find climbers in the bourbon group and the portland group
Sorry, not in the portland group! and the hybrid perpetual is for sure. So they're all over the map and
Saying something as a climber or saying something as a Rambler is more a description of its growth characteristics
And it's not going to be easily represented on a list like this
so
Even even the miniatures have a few climbing members. So that's that's funny too. And
I think I'll leave it right there except to say thank you so much for watching if you found this useful
Please let me know and certainly I don't expect that this effort is going to be the final effort in
Categorizing all the roses in relation to each other and if you know something more than I do or want to make a correction
Please feel free to drop those into the comments below. Thanks very much