- Over the years, bikes have advanced.
- A lot.
- I love retro kit.
- Yeah, and I love modern, aero bikes.
So much so, that we've decided to combine
our two passions and come
to the Silver Stone Sports Engineering Hub,
a cycling specific wind tunnel
to pit the latest,
most high-tech
cutting edge modern aero bike tech
against John's beautiful retro tech.
To see just how much faster an amazing bike like this
is going to be over John's.
- Well, if it's faster, mate.
- It will be, but before we show you
just how much faster mine is,
you know the drill,
subscribe if you haven't already
and also click the little bell icon.
- Right, mate, let's go get you dressed up.
- What?
- Oh yeah, I haven't told you about that.
You're going to love this.
(bouncy music)
(whooshing)
- [Narrator] The testing protocol is as follows.
We have three set-ups;
a retro bike with retro clothing,
a retro bike with modern aero clothing,
and a modern aero bike with modern aero clothing.
With these set-ups,
we will be measuring how aerodynamic they are
at three different speeds;
25 kilometers per hour
a speed that most of us ride at,
35 kilometers an hour
a speed that most of us aspire to ride at,
and 45 kilometers an hour
a speed generally reserved for pro-riders and descents.
We'll be measuring the power required to ride
each of those set-ups at each of those speeds.
In addition, we will also be testing
the two bikes in isolation without riders.
And we felt that that was a good place to start.
The data from the wind tunnel is recorded as CDA values,
which is the engineering term for the drag coefficient
of whatever you're measuring.
The lower the drag coefficient,
the more aerodynamic an object is.
The CDA value allows us to calculate a wattage value,
which we call aero-watts for simplicity.
This is the data we are presenting.
This is the power required to overcome aerodynamic drag
at the different speeds.
- Well, Ollie, it is nice to be
behind the desk again, isn't it?
- Yeah, it's nice. Much warmer in here than that tunnel.
- Yeah, you were getting pretty cold in there all day.
- Blowing gale, yeah.
(laughter)
- Right, we should look at the numbers then
because while what looks aerodynamic,
might not necessarily be aero.
- Yeah, so compute the results here,
and first up we'll do the results
for just the bikes on their own,
with no riders on them. - Yes.
- Now, we're going to present
all the results in the same way.
So first up, we're going to look at the CDA,
which is the drag coefficient
and then we're going to present that as aero-watts,
which is the watts you would need to produce
in order to overcome aerodynamic drag for given speeds.
So we're going to present all three speeds we tested:
25, 35, 45.
And these will appear on screen if you want to pause it
and have a look longer, you can.
- [Ollie] So, first up was your bike.
- [John] Yeah, that's right, yeah the Eddy Merckx sport.
- We can see that the drag coefficient increases slightly
as speed increases,
that's fairly normal.
And to overcome aerodynamic drag,
your bike on it's own to go 25k an hour,
needs to create 27.6 watts.
- [John] Yeah.
- [Ollie] Not a huge amount. - [John] No.
- [Ollie] Just a bike on it's own.
Soon as you then go up to 45k an hour,
that becomes 146.7 watts
because, well,
drag is not linear.
- No. - So that's that.
Now, so when we go on to the F12,
that translates to aerowatts of
21, 56
and 115
at respective speeds.
- [John] Yeah, considerably less.
- [Ollie] So, considerable saving
and a massive saving in particular,
the faster you go.
So, you're getting a bigger aero saving
at those higher, higher speeds.
- [John] Yeah, and that's just the bike on it's own.
- Yeah. - Yeah, I mean it's slightly
counterintuitive really to what we think
in our minds, isn't it?
That skinny tubes are going to be faster.
You know, cylindrical shape and everything.
- Yeah. - But, we learn that anyway.
Last year in the retro versus modern
- Yeah, the looks video. - The looks video, yeah,
that I did with Sci.
Yeah, if you open any aerodynamics textbook
pretty much the first page will be a picture of a cylinder
and it will say "Cylinders are bad news,"
when it comes to aerodynamics.
- Ollie's never one to exaggerate on things.
Page one, first thing.
- Yeah, but modern bikes of, you know,
like the Pinarello F12,
have got carefully tuned and honed
aerodynamic shapes designed to minimize drag.
A lot of the time with modern bikes,
these shapes it's not marketing,
although marketing is used to sell it.
It is physics that is the basis behind it
and this is why we don't see cylindrical shaped
trains or spaceships.
- Quantum physics?
- Quantum physics is in everything,
but this isn't specifically quantum physics.
- Good.
(chill upbeat music)
- So next up, we tested with riders
on both those bikes, me,
but the reason why we tested without a rider
was because we could do and it's, the rider can
be a source of error because it's hard
to maintain a constant position.
- [John] Yeah, now the good thing actually
about the Silverstone Sports Engineering Hub tunnel
is that you had that outlined, didn't you,
so you could look down and you can actually see --
- Yeah, the projection.
- Exactly where you're meant to be sitting
during the initial runs and everything.
And I had great pleasure actually, Ollie,
in watching you sit there and try to hold that position
for hours on end.
(deep music)
- Ollie, I never thought I'd see the day
I'd let you ride my pride and joy.
And to be honest, you actually look quite good on it,
which is annoying me I must say a little bit.
But, how does it feel, first of all?
Because it's a bike probably that you've,
have you ever ridden anything as old as this?
- I have, but I mean, it feels beautifully smooth,
you've taken good care of it. - I have.
- But it's miles different from my Pinarello.
The handlebars for one,
I mean they're just all over the place.
- I thought you'd like them.
- And wider as well, but it's
modern bikes have increasingly narrow bars, a bit more aero.
Something else I can see
when we look at the line guide we've created,
is that to adopt the same relaxed position on the hoods,
I mean I can't really do that. - No.
- It feels like it's much more designed to be in the drops
as a standard all-day position
and I can see that's already much lower
than my standard all-day position on the modern bike.
- [John] It's going to be interesting I think as
the results come out on this because, you know,
you're on the drops so you're a lot lower
but it's just how the overall package is going to work.
Because while we've got
32 whole standard box section aluminum wheels.
- So what I'm going to do is to try to keep it consistent
because we want to see what the bike's difference is.
I'm actually going to try to replicate the position
using the line guide which means I will be coming up
a bit higher on to the hoods. - Yeah.
- But, it will make it more consistent to see
what the difference between the actual bikes is
rather than me. - Yeah.
- Which is what we want to find out.
- I think we can do that a little bit later on though,
maybe we can throw something else into the mix, I think.
You know, just to see.
I've got my dressing up box today.
You're all going to be in for a treat, I think.
- Right, let's run that tunnel then.
- Alright mate, just go easy on her, please.
- Yeah -- - Please.
- I'll take good care of her.
- Please do.
(calm upbeat music)
- So, we've got the, first the modern,
the retro bike but we did it with
modern clothing to begin with.
And you can see the CDA values there and this translates to
aerowatts of 87 watts to overcome 25 kilometers an hour,
and that's the bike and the rider.
To go 35, 212 watts coming out at,
and 435 would be the number of watts you do for 45k an hour.
This is, I should stress as well, just areo-watts,
so there would be about roughly 10 percent additional watts
required to overcome friction
within the drive train and tires.
(bouncy upbeat music)
- Now, when we compare that to the modern bike
with modern clothing. - Yeah, here we go.
- You can see there's a huge difference.
So you can see there that instantly
the drag coefficients are much, much lower
with the modern clothing.
And the wattage saving there,
you're looking at 79 watts for 25, 191, and then just 410.
410 for 45 k and hour versus the --
- [John] 4-3-5. - [Ollie] (mumbles)
- [John] Retro with modern clothing.
- [Ollie] Yeah, 25 watts. Significant.
And something to point out here,
while you can see that there is a trend,
that there is a greater wattage saving
at those higher speeds.
It actually works out roughly the same
at the lower speeds in terms of the saving,
because the person riding at the lower speeds
is out on the course longer.
So although the saving is less,
the overall time saved is roughly the same
because they're on the course longer.
- Yeah, that's something which often is not
spoken about that much, is it? Slower speeds.
Which is hence why we wanted to do this video.
- Yes. - At realistic speeds.
Because so many press releases we get for example,
55 or 60 k an hour, no one is riding at that speed.
- Yeah. - Really.
- (mumbles) All the time. - (mumbles) Obviously.
- But, yeah. I mean there are riders out there
doing sport speeds that are out there for 5, 6 hours.
Riding at 25 k an hour.
So that's why this data, I think, is a valuable tool.
- Yes, even six watts at that speed can be
hugely significant if you are chasing a time.
You might not be chasing a time,
in which case you're probably not even bothered
about watching this video.
But, if you are, then that is significant
over a massive course that is 5, 6 hours long.
- Yeah. - So then we tested
the retro bike with retro clothing.
- Yeah, this is probably my favorite part actually.
Seeing you dressed up like that.
- Thanks, man.
- You wouldn't wear those old shorts though.
I was a bit annoyed by that, but --
- You haven't washed 'em.
- [John] Alright, Ollie, I see you found my dressing up box.
You're looking all right. - Thanks, man.
- Have you seen yourself, in a mirror?
- No, I haven't. I don't think I want to.
- Yeah, anyway, I see you haven't quite gone, you know,
the whole hog basically, cause you didn't use
those nasty old bib shorts that I left laying around.
You kept on your current ones.
So, I can forgive you for that I suppose.
And also you've kept the arm warmers on.
Because you have been in there quite some time now,
a little bit cold.
But you've got a couple of jerseys on.
- Yeah, (mumbles).
- You've also, but, back then mate,
they used to have them undone,
they used to have them catching the wind a little bit,
so there we go. So we got you authentic.
And you've got the trusty helmet on too.
They didn't really do any good, did they?
- These are period correct eyewear.
- No. - I have to stress,
it's for health and safety.
I don't want to get particles of dust and stuff
from the wind tunnel in my eye.
- Yeah, but how do you feel?
- Um, I feel like I want get changed.
Let's run the test.
- Okay, right, here we go.
25, 35, 45 k an hour.
- I'm going to maintain the same body position
using the template. - Yeah.
It's not as easy, on this old bike though is it?
- No. But, you can do it.
- Yeah. I've got my faith in you.
- Cool. Let's do it.
- Go on mate, go for it.
Come on retro.
(bouncy music)
- This is the real interesting one for me.
When you combine the retro bike with the retro clothing,
you see a huge difference. - Yep.
- And what this clearly shows is
that above and beyond the biggest difference
is not the bike, it's the clothing you wear.
And probably the position you're in,
but that's another story.
But, the clothing makes a ridiculous difference.
So, 488 watts to go 45 k an hour
versus with the retro bike with modern clothing
was 435.
I could train for 100 years and never get
that kind of improvement. - No.
- But through a different bit of kit. Yeah.
Easier as well than training.
- People will happily drop thousands of pounds
on a brand new bike and ignore the clothing.
But, for considerably less expenditure,
you can buy faster clothing, faster helmet.
And save much more, in terms of, go much quicker.
You know, we look at,
So we look at the modern, the modest speed so 25 k an hour,
is 93 watts for retro bike and retro clothing,
and if we then compare that. So that's not,
you know then you're looking at --
- 6 watts. - About 3 watts on the,
for the clothing at low speed.
But considerably more on the faster bike.
But, yeah, it's going to make more,
when you start to go up to the faster speeds,
the less aerodynamic clothing
is clearly making a huge difference.
- [John] It's really interesting to see this.
- Yeah. - And you think,
you know, when you're riding you get a little hot,
you undo your jersey a little bit,
the difference that will start to make.
But we could have spent literally days in there,
going through all these different experiments
and I wish we had the time.
Because to be able to relay that back to people,
I find quite rewarding.
The way that you can make those marginal gains --
- And the other, but the other thing is,
is people who say "I never ride at 45 k an hour,"
well, I'm sure you do.
It doesn't mean you have to be riding all the time.
Because what you can see there,
is the huge disparity in drag between 45 k an hour
with the retro clothing and the modern clothing
means that if there's a part in your event or sport team
where you're trying to drop your mate
and you go down a hill where you hit 55, 60 k an hour
if one of you is wearing faster clothing,
and one's wearing not fast clothing,
that's the moment where you will have a huge advantage.
If you want to break away from them at that point,
or attack them or get a gap,
that's where you'll get the gap
and in cycling, it's often about who can get the gap.
- [John] And you see that actually in pro-racing as well.
Years ago, top of climbs,
riders nearly all the time,
regardless of the weather,
would put a cape on.
These days they don't because the cape is flapping around
and it means they can't keep up with their competitors
if they're not wearing a cape.
- [Ollie] Or they have to expend a lot more energy.
- [John] Yeah and no one wants to do that on a descent.
- [Ollie] No. - [John] And try to recover.
But this has been really interesting,
and there's loads of different tools out there as well
for you to play around with, isn't there?
- Yeah. - If you want to, you know,
imagine if you were to save a few watts here,
and you could then try to get a PB on your local climb.
- Or your event, if you've got an event coming up
and you want to see what difference
maybe 10 watts would make,
then yeah there's loads of brilliant online calculators
like Best Bikes, Blip, My Wind Stock.
- Yeah, Bike Calculator.
- Yeah, those sorts of things that are
worth playing around with and you can see
it gets pretty significant.
- Yeah, it starts to tell you how much time you save as well
and that's when you start to get a little bit excited.
- Yeah. All right, well, we hope you've enjoyed this video
and found it informative and useful.
It's been pretty fascinating testing
an old bike versus a modern bike.
- It was great to see it actually,
in that kit you were, you played the part really well.
Right, remember as ever as well to like
and share this video with your friends too
and don't forget to subscribe to the GCN Tech Channel.
- And if you'd like to watch that retro versus modern
look bike video, you can click down here.
- Yeah, for another retro versus modern
click just down here.