- Well, it's a discussion, argument even,
which has rumbled on for decades,
should you use clipped in pedals or flat shoes
when you're riding a mountain bike.
Now, the story with e-mountain bikes might
actually be quite different because recently
I went out with Doddy on an e-mountain bike ride
and Doddy you wanted to ride on flat pedals,
which really surprised me
because you've been riding SPDs for decades.
- Yeah, so I do flip between the two,
but I'd rather be clipped in, 100%.
As soon as I started riding e-bike
I found my timing was out.
It's really important on e-bike
because you have to understand your timing
when you're going to get a power surge
in climbing up steps.
And it just so happened the ride you took me on
had a lot of steps and technical stuff in the climbing
and I've really struggled to be honest.
- So today then, let's have a look at the pros and cons
of using flat or clips on an e-mountain bike.
(upbeat music)
(thudding)
(laughter)
(grunting)
(laughter)
Doddy, you must be wondering
why this sudden rush of blood from me
on wanting to clip in.
Well, I'll tell ya. - You've been flats forever
as far as I know. - I've been flats forever.
Now, the reason is over the last two years on the channel
we've been to some amazing places,
both here and in France and Italy,
and ridden with some truly incredible riders,
likes of Fabien Borel and Nico Vouilloz,
and I've seen them climb technical climbs,
which has blown my mind.
I can ride some reasonably technical stuff,
but getting up those steps on quite steep inclines
and being able to move the bike
into positions which I simply cannot do on flat pedals
has made me think, "Right, I need a bit of that action."
- Okay, well firstly, let's quickly look at an SPD
or a clipless pedal versus a flat pedal.
Simple basics, a flat pedal as described
is a flat pedal, you get on and go with
whatever riding shoes you want to do.
It could be wellies for you,
it could be pair of Five Tens, whatever.
Right, now, on the clipless pedal,
which has got a weird name,
it's called clipless 'cause originally
it would be a toe clip on a flat pedal.
These days you have cleat on the bottom of your shoe
that locates onto the pedal and clips in.
So the advantages are your foot is secure on the pedal,
the advantages are when you're pedaling
you can actually pull up at the same time or pull forwards.
There's also a few other things with clip pedals
that you can do, like you say, you can maneuver the bike
a lot more than you can with flat pedals.
Typically, someone on flat pedals
will ride the back wheel quite hard.
So you can wreck the wheel, you can get
flats and stuff. - Guilty.
- Riding clipped in, your weight bias
is a bit more neutral on the bike,
so perhaps something you're looking for
is being able to move around more.
- And do you know what?
That's a really, really important point
on an e-mountain bike.
You're continually shifting weight
between the front wheel and the back wheel.
Especially, on those climbs to get the traction
on the back wheel, but to still keep that front wheel down.
So maybe this could be the way ahead.
- However, there is a slight downside to clipping in
and that downside really is you're locked to the bike.
It's both the thing that makes them excellent
and terrifying.
It does still scare me sometimes.
Especially with e-bikes are still bit unfamiliar for me.
- Yeah, do you know Doddy, can I just go through
some of the things that do actually scare me
about clipped in pedals.
That one there is being trapped,
being clipped in is like,
I think I'm probably a control freak.
I don't like to be not in charge of the bike.
- Yeah, sure.
- Second thing is I actually do ride
a lot of natural trails in the mud a lot of the year,
it's very slippery, so that might come into account.
- Very valid point actually.
- I don't really ride bike parks
where you've got the safety of berms and stuff like that.
I actually use my foot, I use a foot-off technique
to counter balance the bike
when I'm doing technical climbs on e-bikes,
so my feet are off quite a lot of the time.
And the final reason, like I said,
is, yeah, there's a lot adaption and stuck in my ways
to do with this as well.
- They're all really valid points
and definitely the reasons that a lot of you
might feel the same actually as Steve
and not want to try them.
However, you can tailor clipless pedals to offer
you some of those traits.
- Okay, right. - But obviously,
there is a trade off.
So if we just have a quick look at the types of pedal
and the types of shoes to try and get you that feel.
So you're going to have smaller pedals and bigger pedals.
So the smaller ones are more,
let's just say exit or trail focused,
they don't give you any support
and you're pretty much locked in.
Right, and then you've got the more cage orientated pedals.
You've got a midway and you got the full downhill size.
So the downhill size, great because you've got the support
that you get with a flat pedal.
If you're not clipped in you can still rest on it and use,
the jaws will move out of the way it.
Then you have to select the style of shoe
that's going to suit the way that you want to ride.
Okay, so if you're a flat pedal style rider
and you want that feel,
you're probably going to want something
that looks a bit more like a skate shoe,
like this one for Giro.
It's got that flat sole on there,
you're going to get good contact.
- There you go, sorry. - Yeah, similar sort of shoe
to what you've already got on. - Bit of mud on there,
so I guess the surface area there is quite similar, right?
- Yeah, I've got a few of my shoes here.
So this is a typical trail style shoe.
It's got secure mount, it's on the top.
The sole is very stiff so great for power transfer.
But you get less pedal feel, it's a trade off.
- But a lot of people that already mountain bike,
'cause they do tend to go for the One-Fifty, One-Sixty
and, like I said, do these technical climbs
where that feeling on the pedal is really important, so.
- Okay, in which case, that would be a great shoe.
However, there is a trade off with these
and that is the sole on them.
So the sole both gives it a great feel on a pedal like this
is also a problem when you're off the bike.
Unlike you're flat pedal shoes that have lots of toe flex,
good for walking, these have far less
'cause they're designed for pedal efficiency.
So this is the sort of thing
that I would suggest looking at.
I would suggest you use a pedal in the middle of this,
so you have support,
but this is a bit more like a trail running shoe
with the traction on there.
Off the bike is amazing,
on the bike it is a trade off between the two.
- I think it's time to get cracking on
with some set up issues
and getting on the shoes. - I'm looking forward to this.
- And following that, get out on the trail
and Doddy, I'd love you to show me some skills,
some basic skills of riding SPDs
'cause I have never, ever ridden off road on
clipped in SPDs. - Oh, this is brilliant.
Whatever you call it,
I'm still tryna get to terms with the terms. (laughter)
Anyway,
- [Both] Let's do it.
- Doddy, I've gone for the flat options,
but I can't for the life of me work out how to get those
brass bits onto the shoes. - Right, let me
stop you there, Jones, let me stop you there.
Okay so the manual is quite extensive,
but this is why I'm here.
So we're going to fast track that.
Save that for bedtime reading.
Okay, so you've gone for the bigger pedal,
so that's great, so that means you're going to opt
for this style shoe.
We're going to put the cleats in the neutral position,
we're going to put them in a position
that feels fairly similar to you flat pedals
and then we're going to get out
and do some basic stuff first, I think.
- I like the idea of that, Doddy, a lot.
- But what I suggest, instead of getting these ones dirty,
I got a pair of spares, just try those first
because before you go spending money on clipping in,
so we want to make sure it's the right style for you.
And we've got lots of options, yeah.
- And whether indeed clipped in
is for me in the future, Doddy.
- Yeah, for sure.
- Wow, here we go then.
Moment in time, off with my trusty flat shoes,
which I've been using since I was three years old,
and on with the clips.
Ooh crikey, they're not that bad fit actually, Doddy.
(clicking)
There you go, God, doesn't it just look so wrong.
- So like anyone that's going to get accustomed
to using clipless pedals for the first time,
before you go riding you need to get.
(thudding)
That was actually real,
that was quite good. - I'm stuck.
- Just be quiet for a minute.
Right, so what you need to do
is get familiar - Ah, crikey.
- with the sensation of clipping in.
Yeah, because it is a bit strange at first,
tryna locate something that's on your shoe on a pedal.
Ideally, you want it to be as simple
as touching your fingers on your nose.
And don't do what Jones is doing,
right then. - What?
- He's making it really hard for himself.
- I mean, why?
- Right, right, stop a second.
Right, put all your weight on your un-clipped foot.
Right, so lean the bike over.
- So what was I doing wrong there then?
- Because you're leaning, basically,
towards your side your clipping in.
So you have no stability, like that.
- Okay, right, right, right. - So put all your body weight
on your un-clipped leg.
- What a clueless idiot.
- And then practice the art of clipping in, clipping out,
clipping in, clipping out.
- [Steve] Okay, so put all your weight on that leg.
- [Doddy] Yeah, there you go.
Now, just get used to clipping in, clipping out
repeatedly, move the pedal around.
- It comes out really easily,
but the moment I panic there.
- It's 'cause you're panicking and you're not thinking.
- Yeah, but look, it comes out really easy.
- But this leads me to something that you've not considered
and we've not talked about yet.
Right, so I've got the same cleat
so I can show you this here.
When you're clipping in on a pedal.
Nice and easy, no problem.
You clip in and you're part of that pedal.
Right, when your foot is at the top of the stroke,
you're not hindered by the crank arm, okay.
So it means it's very easy to clip out.
- Ah, right. - Right, in certain parts
of the pedal stroke,
for example, here. - You're not going to
be able to move. - If you're on your
on your cleats far back on the shoe.
Right, you can't have the toe angle to get out.
- Trapped, trapped. - Yeah, you're trapped.
So everyone's going to fall off,
so make sure you practice somewhere like Steve is here.
Somewhere that's got some grass and that.
Nothing too bad to hurt yourself on.
- I just don't get why I just panic.
I've got my thing in there now and I'm like, if I,
I'm like, I just can't get the thing out, whereas--
- It's 'cause your trying to get it out.
- But then I can do it there
and I can just get it in and out really quickly.
- So the whole thing with - Hold on.
- clipping out of a pedal is you twist your ankle
a certain amount and you will disengage
from the jaws of the pedal.
When you're doing it with flat pedal
is you just take your foot off.
After a while you'll become accustomed to it
and you'll actually start taking your foot off
flat pedals in the same way
that you would. - When you say after a while
are we talking days hours, minutes, years.
- It depends on every rider,
people learn at different rates.
- I think you could be in for
a long haul. - I think the older you are,
the slower it is to learn, just saying.
- It's going to be years then.
(laughter)
- So something that Jones in particular is looking for
with clippers pedals is low speed control
and being able to use the power that you can get the pedals
to get out of situations.
What you can see behind me is actually a fly off
for jumping off.
Don't worry we've got someone
making sure there's no one coming on the trail.
We're actually going to ride up these to show you
it's all about that low speed control
and basically you just don't want to panic
when you're clipped in.
Which I think is something Jones is really worried about,
but he could do this in his sleep and you could to.
And just a nice little bit of control
and then use a burst to, nice and simple.
- I think, I think what Doddy's showing there
is a really key part of e-mountain biking
on technical climbs
and it enables you to keep that momentum
when you're going up a climb.
Not just 100 meters or 200 meters,
but a climb which could potentially be 800 meters long
and just keeps that momentum going,
which you would never be able to do on a non e-bike.
Aw, it's actually really cool. (laughter)
Wow, that's really good.
It's nuts, it's such a different technique.
My God.
Who'd of though it eh?
You got all these drop offs
are now going to be e-bikes skills area
in the opposite direction.
I still can't get around corners though.
What I struggle with sometimes,
well I don't actually struggle so much on flat pedals,
is that when you're doing a technical climb,
you come up and then all of a sudden your pedal
is in certain position
and you've got to readjust that flat pedal position
to the top of the stroke to get up the next bit.
And what I've seen with Borel and co,
they seem to be not worrying about that.
It's as if they can use the back stroke to
keep their momentum. - To carry on, yeah.
- So can you practice something like that on there?
- I think you could, you could probably come in slow,
just use half a crank,
it doesn't really matter where you are,
and just carry on the pedal.
- And could you, for example,
have your pedal in the wrong position to get up there?
- I think so, yeah.
Let's see you do it, let's you do it, Doddy.
- You want to see me do left and forwards
or something like that?
- Or just be in the totally wrong position
and still be able to get up over it.
- Okay, I've not actually looked at where I am,
actually that is in the wrong position.
- [Steve] On flat pedals you can't do that.
- [Doddy] You have to time it.
- You have to time it correctly.
- That's the beauty of being clipped in.
- You seem to be able to either get the drive off the crank
or actually lift the bike up by doing an aluminum bunny hop.
- You're less interrupted, basically.
- It's cool, I really like it.
- However, you have that, but like I say,
you still have the other thing where
perhaps there might be something
that followed that on the trail
and you're in the wrong position to do that,
but that's where your track stand comes in.
So try this, for example, try get up the step,
but then pause on the top of it.
- And fall off. - And then you would
set yourself up, imaginary, for the next section.
- Right, okay.
(laughter)
Thing is Doddy, right.
It's those panic moments.
Honestly I can do the tracks down, but aw jee.
How do you get away from stuff like that?
- Okay, so we've understood straight away
there's no problem with Steve's technical ability
and low speed skill.
What he is panicking with is that panic factor
that you get when you think.
"I can't clip out, I'm going to fall over."
So I've got a little idea.
- What are we doing here?
- Yeah, right. - On rocks.
- Yeah, we're going to make a little loop here
and at any point I might say stop
and I want you to track stand, yeah?
- (laughter) (yelling)
I got to say, honestly, I'm more scared about this
than riding Val di Sole World Cup down track, genuinely.
- Codswallop.
- It's totally out of my control, go on then.
- Are you ready?
- I'm balancing, tracks down, I got the tracks down easy.
Aw Doddy, you said it was going to be easy.
- Stop.
- Oh, I did it, did it, I got it,
got it. - Okay right, now we carry on.
- Hold on I got to clip back in again now.
- You ready?
Don't panic.
- All right, clip in again, okay, I'm in.
- You got it, you got it, okay.
(thudding)
(laughter)
- Get out.
(squeaking)
- Doddy, I need to do behind you again.
- I'm waiting.
- Doddy, stay there, stay there.
- Now stop again.
(thudding)
(laughter)
- Come on, can we just have a bacon roll.
- It's not as bad as you think, is it?
- So this is what my worry about,
stop there. - Now do it.
- This is what I'm now worried about.
I've now fallen over, I can't actually un-clip.
- See this is only ever a problem
with really dramatic people.
There you go, now un-clip. - I can't, look.
I cannot get the thing left.
- Yeah, you can.
- I'ma swap that. - Go on.
God, you made that hard work, didn't you?
- Come on, I really, really, seriously,
it's the hardest skill session I've ever done.
(funky upbeat blues music)
(laughter)
- [Doddy] He's off.
(laughter)
- So clueless on clips, I think I pretty much proved
that is definitely the right statement,
but you know what Doddy,
it's opened up a whole new world of riding to me.
Which I'm really, really excited
about learning in the future.
- I think you'll be really good when you get it down.
- There's so many fine details involved.
Thanks for bringing me around the loops.
I don't think I can actually add to this video.
I think Doddy is the man when it comes to that.
Doddy thanks for that.
- Anytime, and if you guys have got any wants,
any tuition on low speed skills, clip based stuff,
anything like that,
let us know in those comments underneath.
- Yeah, 'cause I certainly have.
In the meantime, if you want to see some more
skills based videos Chris Smith has done a million
and I'm going to leave two
just at the bottom of the screen there now.
Don't forget, hit the globe-scribe to EMBN.
Give us a thumbs up if you like this video.
- Hit that bell as well.
- (imitates dinging) 'cause I did.