Sharon Osbourne from the talk has
made quite, this think over
the last few days because of an
interaction that she had with one
of our co hosts Sheryl Underwood.
She did not like the idea of her
possibly being considered racist
because of her affiliation with
Piers Morgan.
Now mind you,
no one directly call her racist.
But she took quite the offense to
that and wants to take a look at
the first clip.
>> I feel like I'm about to be put
in the electric chair because I
have a friend who many people
think is a racist, so
that makes me a racist.
And for me at 68 years of age to
have to turn around and say,
I am racist.
What to do?
Do with me.
Okay, how can I be racist about
anybody?
How can I be racist about anybody
or any thing in my life?
How can I?
>> Well.
>> Well, what?
>> We'll be right,
you have more topics so
don't go away.
>> I think we should stop this.
>> [APPLAUSE] Okay, so now that
that was just the first part of
the exchange, and for a little bit
more context, this is obviously in
response to Piers Morgan and
everything that's happening with
Meghan Markel and the royal family.
And when the conversation came up
Sharon Osborne took it extremely
personally but it was the next
portion of the segment that really
caused a ruckus online.
Let's take a look at it.
>> I will ask you again, Sharon.
I've been asking you during the
break, I am asking you again and
don't try and cry because if anyone
should be crying it should be me.
This is the situation you tell me
where you have heard him say
educate me.
Tell me when you have heard him
say racist things and educate me,
tell me.
>> It is not the exact words of
racism.
It's the implication and
the reaction to not want to address
that because she is a black woman,
and to try to dismiss it or to make
it seem less than what it is.
That's what makes it racist, but
right now I'm talking to a woman
who I believe is my friend, and
I don't want anybody here to watch
this and say that we're attacking
you for being racist.
And that and for that,
if I articulated.
>> I think that it currently is
already sold but
that is why I'm saying for
me, I'm saying for me,I thought I
was asking a question about
the perception for other people.
That's why I prefaced it with.
But I've never heard you utter
anything racist or what I have, but
I have felt that Piers was racist
in his stance against Megan Markel,
and the last time he was on
this show.
I said as much.
>> Now, Jake and Morgan, I'm going
to yield the floor to you.
But this looking at Sheryl
Underwood, and how she had to very
carefully pick every word and
compartmentalize all of the rage,
that I'm sure she felt for
fear of being labeled as an angry
black woman, in response to Sharon
Osborne making herself the victim
on behalf of Piers Morgan.
I'll have plenty more to
say about that.
But Jake, what do you think about
that clip >> So,
I think that there's this giant
disconnect in the country that we
can't ever seem to get past.
So, I think that a lot of white
folks and and
apparently not just this country's
perfect so you can and and
by the way most of the old world.
For white folks, they feel like
they're being personally attacked
and insulted, etc.
When anyone even talks about race,
just the beginning of a discussion
of race and they think,
are you calling me racist?
And say I can't believe you think
that I'm a bad person, right.
The second disconnect is,
they think racist is someone who
just goes up to black people and
attack stuff.
Right?
No guys that for
white folks know that ain't it?
Okay. So, I asked this question all
the day online and literally no one
could come up with an example.
Is there anything where the right
wing has said?
Yes, that actually is racist.
Like I've never seen it literally
never in covering news for 25
years, where the right wing goes,
yeah, that's also right now they're
saying the George Floyd thing also
not not only not racist, not bad
the George Floyd had it coming.
The George Floyd had once
taken drugs in his life and so
he should have been, his neck
should have been knelt on for
nine minutes, etc.
The people did say the Confederacy
isn't racist.
The whole point of the capacitor
confederacy was to
maintain slavery,
the ownership of black people.
If that's not racist,
what is your definition of racism?
Right?
And that's where the disconnect is.
Because I think white people think
it only means punching black people
in the face and
saying outwardly all the time that
they are in theory.
Thinking it by the way,
they don't think it's racist.
They think saying
it might be racist depending on
how often you say it, etc.
Right?
Whereas the rest of us,
having dealt with the institutional
disadvantages, and
that history of discrimination.
Raining down on us and
affecting our lives so
significantly, at varying degrees.
As a Muslim in America,
it's not a hunky dory situation,
but it's a lot less discrimination
than black people in America.
That's just reality.
That is my experience.
Right?
And so we felt it.
And so, how could they not see it
as not the craziest thing you have
ever seen that they can't see
the most obvious thing?
Because we've lived it.
And so I think that's where
the disconnect is.
What's your tip?
>> Yeah, no,
I really agree with that.
I mean, they're not seeing it
because that is the definition of
the privilege and
a lot of ways, right?
It's like you don't have to see it.
And so, I think just getting
back to one thing Ben was saying,
we've all been there where Cheryl
was in having
to like exercise that restraint.
Also an additional burden that
a lot of white folks do not have
to experience.
But yeah, I think it's been
interesting in the whole
aftermath of the Harry Megan
interview to how little focus there
is on like some really critical
things that matter for a lot more
people than just Harry or Megan.
Right. The fact that we had
Piers Morgan who was normalizing
going after a black woman with
a huge platform in this Culture and
dynamic, right now that can
be fueled by social media that has
a huge impact on regular people,
who are living their lives to in
addition to the impacts on her.
That's a problem and then also the
Sharon says she wants to learn but
how about learn and listen to some
of the other black folks in England
that are like hey, by the way,
this is our reality, right?
And this isn't the most accepting
culture and all the ways and
people who are on the show with
peers that are like experiencing
discrimination their own families.
So, that's disappointing because
you are disingenuous I should
say you want to be educated but
people are trying to educate you.
You just don't want to listen.
And that's because you
don't have to.
>> And in the thing like thank you
for pointing that out because
Sheryl Underwood was literally
trying to educate her in
that moment.
If it was me,
I would say go to Google and
educate yourself.
But Cheryl was literally trying to
educate her but
she was rejecting it.
And she rejected it with this
with this condescension and
just complete dismissal of Cheryl's
humanity as
well as what she was feeling and
denying her even her tears.
He was like, don't even try to cry.
While she was simultaneously using
her white tears as a shield,
she was trying to take down
Sheryl Underwood's ability to be
human in that moment, as I guess
after getting thrashed on social
media per usual, she had a second,
thought about it and
she put out a statement and
this is what she said.
She said after some reflection,
this is Sharon Osbourne speaking.
After some reflection, after
sitting with your comments and
sitting with my heart, I would like
to address the discussion
on the talk this past Wednesday.
I have always been embraced with so
much love and support from
the black community and
I have deep respect and love for
the black community to anyone of
color that I offended, and or
to anyone that feels confused or
let down by what I said.
I am truly sorry.
I want to read this next part.
She said I panic.
I felt blindsided.
I got defensive and
allow my fear and horror of being
accused of being racist take over.
There are very few things that
hurt my heart more than racism.
So the feel
associated with that spun me fast.
I'm not perfect, and I'm still
learning like the rest of us and
will continue to learn and
listen and do better.
I mean, it's a great statement,
Piers Morgan chimed in, because
this was all centered around him
and he needed to make it even more
about him and this is what he said.
He said, Sharon's, been shamed and
bullied.
Into apologizing for
defending me against colleagues
accusing me of racism because I
don't believe Megan Merkel's BS.
This is where we've reached.
I demand an apology from those at
the top CBS bullies, for
their disgraceful slurs against me.
So, this is obviously par for
the course for Piers Morgan,
and I'm sure it does have a lot to
do with racism because it is Piers
Morgan, but it's also drenched in
his usual massage and he and some
of his jealousy with the stories
that he's told himself, but
nevertheless, he's inserted himself
personally back into this despite
the fact that Sharon Osborne
herself is backing up from it jank.
>> Yeah, so did Piers Morgan change
his Twitter picture to include
a black person in it?
>> That is is unreal man.
You are so obvious, dude.
That's the most embarrassing thing
I've ever seen.
Okay, alright.
So, let's just note that for
the record and move on [LAUGH] so,
look, guys the original controversy
as Megan Markel says somebody in
the royal family was concerned
about the skin color of their baby.
To me, I find that to be the single
most believable story I've ever
heard in my life.
And not just because
I've seen racism in America, but
because I'm also from the old world
where in the old world that is
rampant the talk of skin color.
When you go to name a country in
Asian countries India, Turkey,
you name it.
It doesn't matter if it's Russia or
Mozambique.
Okay skin color in the shade of
the color, even if you're black or
even if you're brown.
These are giant topics of
conversation and and yes, a lot of
people think that it matters and
it's heartbreaking right?
But to say that you are in
disbelief that anybody would
have that conversation.
No, that's crazy.
I mean, that shows you
that you have no empathy at all.
But when black and brown people say
that's the conversation we've heard
1000 times in our lives, and you
say, No, I think you're all liars.
And that is outrageous and nobody
would ever have that conversation.
Now, you that you lose all
credibility, and that's when people
think, this guy's not having
an honest conversation.
This guy's just trying to cover up
obvious racism that clearly exists.
And that's what we think
of your peers.
So, and that's why you can get your
feelings all heard, and
the guy loves controversy, and
he walked off that set as if he was
like so brokenhearted over.
It was that was his way of like
play acting to white folks in the
UK, my god, I'm standing up for all
by crying harder than anyone else.
Else, and I'm willing to
sacrifice myself.
And then a day later, he's like,
by the way, I'm opening up a right
wing competitor to the show that I
was on, because I'm a dirt bag.
And I was always planning to
do this.
And it was always a business
tactic, and had nothing to do
with my actual emotions on the day.
So all that stuff, and
there's rumors of that at least.
But one last thing about empathy.
Look, I'm in an interesting
situation because I'm Turkish.
So, Turks are massively
discriminated against in Germany
for example, okay?
On the other hand,
turns to discrimination within
Turkey where they're the majority.
So, it's a really interesting,
unique perspective.
So, I grew up with Turkish
propaganda.
So. I believed some things about
other groups that weren't true.
So, that isn't the problem guys
like for white folks and brown
folks and anyone else that feels or
Asians etc that feels put upon
anytime somebody uses the word
racism just I love you brother.
Just calm down for a second okay?
And I know that it could be hurtful
I've been falsely attacked for
charges of racism absurd attacks,
including the all your race against
whites.Okay, so
shame on Shame on you.
So, but what we're asking you to do
is instead of being
massively defensive,
just think it through like,
what is the other side saying?
Let me listen, let me have a little
bit of empathy.
All these folks billions of folks
are telling me this skin color has
affected them a lot in their life,
and then they've been either
oppressed by maybe slightly heard
is sometimes in sometimes
massively heard.
Maybe I should listen to that and
see if they're not all liars.
Like it's not a high bar.
It's really actually kind
of a low bar.
If you think about it.
>> Yeah, and
it is it is interesting because I
think especially in a lot of other
countries, particularly European
countries, there's this tendency to
want to dismiss it, race that's
a US issue that we don't have that
like France is going through
this referendum referendum on.
Their whole way of being and
running their culture that's like
free of any acknowledgement of
race, and it's ridiculous.
And it's it all works fine.
Unless you're a person of
color, right?
And then you have like
real experiences of being
discriminated against and you can't
even really talk about it.
So, I think we're seeing you know
in a global way to this reckoning
of what the different experiences
have been and folks are being It's
good, but, it takes a little bit of
empathy and a lot less ego to
actually embrace that honesty.
>> A lot less ego is probably
the biggest hurdle to overcome when
we're talking about somebody like
Piers Morgan, but I digress, Cenk.
[LAUGH]