Shapiro: I think that teaching kids,
as we are now being told,
teaching kids that they must,
must use preferred pronouns,
or that men can become women, women can become men,
sex doesn't exist,
as a recent op-ed in the New York Times said,
that's asinine, anti-scientific, and counterproductive.
Student: So my main disagreement with you
is on the subject of transgenderism.
And what I've seen in the past
is that you said one of your principle objections
to the transgender movement
is that you think accepting them into society
won't necessarily help solve their problems.
Is that a fair characterization of what you said?
Shapiro: No,
I don't think it's fair, in the sense
that I think everybody should be treated
with a certain level of dignity.
But what I have said is that I don't think
that the high transgender suicide rate
is attributable to societal intolerance.
Student: Okay, so I sort of disagree with,
or I don't think the empirical evidence
necessarily says that.
I've seen studies from UCLA
that have drawn different conclusions,
but I realize if we disagree on the empirical evidence,
not much can be resolved here tonight.
So assuming that it would help
to accept them more into society,
would you change your position on transgenderism?
Shapiro: So the position on transgenderism
I want to clarify,
so that I can tell you what I would change
and what I wouldn't change.
So what I would not change
is the idea that you cannot force people
to call you what you want to be called.
That is anathema to a free society.
I will also not change the idea
that we should not indoctrinate children
in blatant biological falsehoods,
like there's no such thing as male and female.
I think it's very important that kids know
there is such a thing as male and female,
and that these are real categories,
and that a man cannot become a woman
and a woman cannot become a man.
I think that confusing children about this stuff
carries its own inherent dangers.
Kids are easily confused, and easily screwed up.
So I think that that would not change.
I've also said in conversations with people
like Blair White, who is a transgender woman,
meaning a man who believes he's a woman,
I've said to Blair,
like if we were at restaurants or something,
and we were out to dinner together,
I wouldn't go out of my way to call Blair White a he,
I mean, presumably we'd be speaking
in second person with one another.
But at the same time,
like for the same reason that there are people in my life
who do lots of things that I disagree with,
and I don't feel it necessary to launch a conflict
on the basis of that every time we meet.
But that's a different thing
than what the transgender rights movement is saying.
What they are saying
is that society should cram down on people,
perceptions about biology that are false,
that we should treat it as bigotry
if you use the actual biological pronouns for people,
that it's a form of bigotry and hate, which is nonsense.
It's just something you don't like.
There are lots of things I don't like.
It doesn't mean it's a form of bigotry and hate.
And that's where I stand on this.
So again, I think that we should try to treat people
with as much civility as possible,
and in my position as a public figure,
I am very often speaking on the general kind of issue.
I'm not speaking on one-to-one,
out to lunch or something.
That's a little bit of a different thing.
My child is four and a half years old.
She comes to me and she will say,
"Dad, I drew a picture.
Do you think that it's good?"
And the answer is yes.
I mean, I love my daughter.
Sure, the picture is great.
Now if I'm an art critic,
is that going to change my definition of good or art?
No, I mean, if I were the art critic of the New York Times
and I were reviewing my daughter's picture,
I'd say this is garbage, it's not good at all, right?
[audience laughter]
My public position
is that I am the art critic at the New York Times,
discussing issues of public importance and public policy.
I don't think that it is the responsibility of other people
to protect your fragile mindset.
With that said, if people wish to do so
out of a certain level of sympathy,
I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I mean, if you want to,
in interpersonal connections, do that.
But I think that teaching kids,
as we are now being told,
teaching kids that they must,
must use preferred pronouns,
or that men can become women, women can become men,
sex doesn't exist,
as a recent op-ed in the New York Times said,
that's asinine, anti-scientific, and counterproductive.
Student: Okay, thank you.
[audience applause]