Hello, I’m Michelle Tapper with the Latest From Science.
It’s been a worrying few weeks in Australia, as COVID-19 cases have surged in Victoria
and parts of New South Wales through community transmission.
Many suburbs in Melbourne are back in lockdown and health authorities have rolled out large
scale testing and tracing to try and contain the virus.
Joining me today to discuss the progress is Professor Michael Kidd, Principal Medical
Advisor to the Department of Health and Deputy Chief Medical Officer.
Hi Michael, thanks for you joining us. Hello.
Now, obviously the situation in Victoria and New South Wales is quite concerning for everyone.
Do you think we reached the peak yet?
Well, clearly we're very concerned about what's happening at this moment in Victoria and also
the increase in community transmission that we've seen in New South Wales. It's too early
to know exactly what's going to happen over the next few days. So, at the time that we're
speaking, the lockdown has been in place in Melbourne and the surrounding areas for about
10 days. And we're still waiting to see if we see a fall in the number of new infections
being reported each day. At the same time, we're seeing continuing community transmission
in New South Wales and while that seems to be at a fairly steady level, again, the number
of new infections is not really yet falling. So, we are in a dynamic situation and clearly
all the measures are in place need to continue and to continue to be enforced, as we watch
and see what happens.
I think a lot of people felt really anxious when Victoria went into lockdown again and
obviously stage four restrictions are possibly even looming. Do you think this will be the
new normal that we'll just keep having these rolling waves of lockdowns until a vaccine
is developed?
Well clearly we are expecting to have continuing outbreaks occurring. The first wave of the
pandemic obviously is still sweeping across the world, and particularly having an impact
at this time in many lower middle income countries in South Asia, central South America, and
increasingly in Africa as well. And we expect that there will still be people coming into
Australia who are infected with COVID-19, whether these are Australian residents returning
home, or whether they're the crews of aircraft or of ships, which are involved in the import
of and export of products into and out of the countries. So whenever we have contact
with the outside world, there's going to be continuing risks of further transmission occurring
and further outbreaks occurring. Clearly what we'd like to see happening right across Australia
is no community transmission, as we've seen at the current time, in at least six of the
eight jurisdictions.
But, clearly we have a very serious outbreak in Victoria and a very concerning outbreak
occurring in New South Wales at this time. So yes, it does look like this will be the
continuing pattern, which we follow, which means that we are going to need to continue
to be vigilant about the risks of COVID-19. It means that we aren't yet going to be able
to return to what may have been our normal lives beforehand. Obviously we still have
internal borders closed within Australia. So movement around the country is limited
at this time as well. So it's again, it's very dynamic the situation, which we're seeing
in the country at this time.
There's also been a lot of debate about the exit strategy Australia has approached whether
or not we should be going for elimination or suppression. What's your view on this?
There's debates around suppression and elimination. The approach of the National Cabinet has been
rigorous suppression, which of course has resulted in effective elimination of community
transmission. As I said, occurring in at least six of the eight states and territories around
Australia. Clearly we need to be aiming to have no community transmission occurring,
right across Australia as our goal.
Everybody's holding out for a vaccine. What is the latest on vaccine development and what
potential problems could we see in Australia in trying to manufacture and distribute and
develop a vaccine?
So clearly there's a lot of focus on what's happening with the vaccine development, both
within Australia and also overseas. Each few days we're hearing reports from different
groups about the successes that we're seeing in the various aspects of trials, which are
underway. And a lot of the reports that we're seeing are very promising. But we've got to
wait obviously until we actually have the vaccine, it's able to be shown to be safe
in populations, it's able to be produced. And then it has to be distributed, both within
this country and also in countries all around the world. Now, even when we do get a successful
candidate, it may still be many months, after that successful candidate to when we actually
start seeing mass immunisation programmes starting to occur, either here or elsewhere
in the world. So we are going to be living under the circumstances that we're living
under at the moment, for some considerable time to come.
Do you have any timeframe on that or is it too much like gazing into a crystal ball at
this stage?
Yeah, I think there is no firm timeline. We have had overnight, on the day that we're
recording this, we had, overnight, very positive reports from developers, both at Oxford in
the UK and in China with promising news coming forward. But, you know, we've got to remember
that the development of vaccines against coronaviruses in humans has not been successful to date.
Of course we have been living with HIV for decades without a vaccine becoming available.
So, while we're very heartened by what's coming forward from the various research teams around
the world, there's still a long way to go.
Absolutely. And that's difficult, I think for a lot of people to process. And you've
talked about community transmission, which is obviously what we're seeing in New South
Wales and Victoria, and that's a lot different to how the pandemic started in Australia,
which was basically people returning home. How difficult is it now for health authorities
to trace and track people now that we have reasonably widespread community transmission
in places like Melbourne and New South Wales?
So unlike when COVID-19 first appeared in Australia, we are a lot better prepared now
several months into the pandemic. We have very extensive capacity for testing and at
the moment we're seeing 60,000 or more tests being carried out every day across Australia.
We have much further developed capacity for contact tracing and with the outbreak in Victoria,
we've seen contact tracing teams in other states and territories were actually assisting
our colleagues in Victoria with the contact tracing process. As the numbers get larger,
the number of people being diagnosed each day, of course, the challenge of carrying
out contact tracing within a very short period of time, becomes more and more complex. But
again, further capacity is being put into the system. We've had over a thousand Australian
Defence Force personnel, many of whom are involved in the logistics and the carrying
out of the contact tracing as well. Also really worrying is the fact that a number
of healthcare workers on the front line have tested positive to COVID-19. Are they getting
enough protection? And what sort of protection are they getting? How is this happening?
So it course some of the healthcare worker infections are occurring in healthcare settings
and some of them are occurring in community settings because of course, where we have
widespread community, transmission, healthcare workers living in the community are at risk,
as are others. We've also seen transmission between people working in healthcare settings.
So there are a number of different scenarios which can lead to healthcare worker infection.
It's absolutely imperative that we have appropriate and adequate amounts of personal protective
equipment available for all our healthcare workforce in the areas where we are seeing
significant community transmission. And it's also absolutely imperative that our healthcare
workers are utilising the PPE appropriately at all times when they're encountering patients
who could be infected with COVID-19. And also of course, in with the restrictions in place
in Melbourne now with the requirement for people to be wearing masks whenever they're
outside of their homes, that the people are adhering to these requirements as well. For
example, when they're travelling to and from their workplace,
Now, some people are simply refusing to wear masks. Can you just provide some insight on
exactly how they work and what people should look for in a mask if they want to protect
themselves?
Yes. So clearly there's been a lot in the media about masks over the last few days,
since the Premier of Victoria announced that mask-wearing would be mandatory for people
in the lockdown areas in Melbourne and the surrounding regions from Thursday of this
week. And so people are going to be required to wear masks if they don't wear masks, then
we've been advised that people will be fined. Clearly, the optimal masks are the surgical
masks or cloth masks with the three layers. We have heard reports that people are being
encouraged if they don't have immediate access to three ply masks just to cover their face
in whatever way they can with bandanas or scarfs or other measures. We do know that
there has been a rush on the purchase of a surgical masks from pharmacies and other outlets,
and that many people are moving towards making their own.
And of course there are many videos on YouTube and elsewhere showing people about how to
wear masks. The compulsory wearing of masks is not new in other parts of the world, where
community transmission has been much greater in the past than it has been in Australia.
So there are lots of examples from the UK, from the US, from other parts of Europe, from
Asia and elsewhere about wearing masks. It's very important to remember that wearing a
mask does not mean that you don't have to continue to adhere to the other measures,
which protect us all. The physical distancing still remains absolutely imperative. Even
when you're wearing a mask, the hand hygiene, the cough and sneeze etiquette. It's also
very important that people, when they wear a mask, are doing so safely and well.
So before you put on your mask, you wash or sanitise your hand, you put your mask on,
and then you don't touch your mask. You avoid touching it as much as possible because each
time you touch it, if you do have a virus on the outside of the mask, then you're at
risk of actually transmitting that to yourself. You wear the mask appropriately, which means
you don't wear it below your nose or below your chin, and when the mask becomes damp
that you replace the mask with a fresh and clean one. If you are wearing a reusable cotton
masks, these of course need to be laundered properly between use. And if you're wearing
a single use surgical mask, then these can only be used one time and then they need to
be discounted appropriately so that you don't put other people at risk. When you do take
off your mask, after you've taken off your mask, you then wash and sanitise your hands
again. So it's not complex, but it's something new for many of us wearing a mask. And again,
new habits, which people are going to get into in order to make sure that they are using
masks appropriately and safely and not putting themselves and other people at risk.
Just some very simple things that everyone can do, maintain physical distancing, wash
your hands, and wear a mask. It's three simple things that really do help a lot in this fight
against COVID, but for people up in Queensland or South Australia, or Northern Territory
and WA, where there are very few COVID cases, is it still recommended that you adhere to
all of those things, because it seems that a lot of people are relaxing in some of the
other states.
Well, certainly we're still recommending that people are absolutely rigorous in adhering
to their hand hygiene and to their physical distancing at all times when they can. The
wearing of masks is currently not recommended in areas where we're not seeing community
transmission, but we do recognise that there may be situations where people and especially
people who are more vulnerable to serious illness from COVID-19, may feel comfortable
wearing a mask. And we've seen that with people on public transport where public transport
may be crowded and physical distancing may not be possible that people say, look, I'm
still more comfortable wearing a mask, but again, wearing a mask doesn't remove the need
for the other precautions. And I think for those who are living in areas where we're
not seeing community transmission at this time, we have still seen cases occurring in
some of those other states and territories around Australia with people travelling in
from other parts of the country, or again, people coming in from outside of Australia,
either repatriation flights or people on the aircraft or the ships, which are importing
and exporting goods. So, we are all living in a world where COVID-19 still exists. As
you say, right from the outset, we're living in a world where we currently don't have an
effective vaccine against COVID-19. So we all need to remain vigilant and careful.
Professor Michael Kidd. Thank you for that excellent advice and for clarifying those
issues, we really appreciate your time today.
Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you everybody. And don't forget, for regular video updates
from the Australian Academy of Science, make sure to follow on social media. I'm Michelle
Tapper, see you soon.