- Today, we're discussing "Dooku--
Jedi Lost" by Cavan Scott.
And stay tuned to hear the author answer some
of your questions about the audio book,
including the very important question of,
what's Dooku's favorite color?
The Star Wars Show Book Club is a series
where we gather friends and fans to read "Star Wars" books,
examining how they relate to all of the "Star Wars" films,
live-action shows, animated series, comics, and games.
Through these stories, we enrich our understanding
of the galaxies far, far away.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Hello.
Kristin Baver here, ready to join
a few friends to find out what makes the mysterious Count
Dooku tick.
Our story begins on shadowy Serenno,
before the events of "Star Wars--
The Clone Wars," where Asajj Ventress waits in captivity
at Dooku's castle, having recently
been recruited to serve account as his assassin.
First, she must prove herself by tracking down his sister Jenza.
What unfolds is a dual-origin story.
While Ventress tracks down Dooku's kin,
his journals and hollow recordings
reveal how he went from an innocent Jedi youngling
to Master Yoda's apprentice and eventually
excelled Qui-Gon Jinn and other Padawans
before falling to the dark side.
At the same time, Ventress battling her own demons,
the voice of her own Jedi master still ringing in her ears
like a lightside guide, while she grapples with her choices,
leading up to an explosive ending.
Now let's meet our book-club crew.
So first up, we have Marie-Claire, creator and host
of "What the Force" podcast.
Fun fact-- every winter in Canada, during her childhood,
she recreated the battle of Hoth in her back yard.
- Well, I'm--
I'm from Canada, and we have a lot of snow.
And so it was actually fairly easy to, like, make the bases.
And I would use my lawn chairs as walkers.
- Next, there's Savanna, who owns her own digital agency
and works as a lifestyle blogger.
But perhaps most importantly, she has a loyal German
shepherd named "Captain Rex."
- Hi, everyone.
- And last, but not least, we have Eric,
a former writer and editor for IGN
and marvel.com now serving as the managing editor of Fandom.
- Hello there.
- I understand you're going to perform the "I am your father"
scene for us today.
- Oh, am I going to bring that back?
- Yes.
Yes.
- I certainly would a lot.
When I was a little kid, my mom would call me out
into the living room when they had friends over because I
would perform both Luke and Vader's sides of the "I
am your father" scene.
- To start us off, I'd love to start a friendly argument.
So just a question for all three of you--
who would you want on your side during a fight--
Dooku or Ventress?
- I would say Ventress for sure.
I think Ventress is probably one of my favorite "Star
Wars" characters ever, and I would give anything to--
to fight next to Ventress.
- I'm going to go with Ventress, too, even though I love Dooku.
And that's-- that's why I was so excited to have
a Dooku-centric story here.
I think in a fight, Ventress--
I mean, they're both very powerful,
but she's-- she's so scrappy.
And she's a little bit malleable with who she's working with,
so if she wasn't on my side originally,
maybe we could turn that.
- I also think Ventress just because she can be convinced,
whereas, I think that Dooku is pretty set it
his ways was most of the time, and I could probably
convince her to help me.
- All right, well, this is no argument at all
because you're all in agreement, and I can't even
argue the Dooku point, because I feel
like if I sided with Dooku, he would turn on me at some point.
WOMAN: Yeah. [LAUGHTER]
KRISTIN BAVER: But I--
I feel like Ventress, as we saw in "The Clone Wars,"
still has a bit of a heart and soul
when it really comes down to it.
Sifo-Dyas and his friendship with Dooku in particular--
which, I just--
I love that he calls him "Doo"--
like, this is just the-- the cutest little friendship
right here-- how did those sections about you know,
kind of their early mischief and their friendship
shift your perception of Dooku and maybe even
shift what you thought you knew about Sifo-Dyas as a character?
- I've never had more sympathy for a villain than I think I
have for Dooku in this book because you can see his
innocence as a child, and you can see
his friendship with Sifo-Dyas.
And it's so relatable.
Like, we all have a friend that we
want to break into the Jedi archives with and, you know,
have fun.
And being able to see his change from that childhood innocence
into what he becomes is so sad.
And I love that they showed this part of him as a character
because, like you, Kristin, I--
you know, I didn't particularly love Dooku.
I don't have anything against him,
but I just didn't know enough about him
to have that connection with his character.
- Yeah.
I was-- I was very excited to have Sifo-Dyas--
I didn't know he was in the book,
and so I was just so excited. Like, Oh,-- my God--
Sifo-Dyas.
That-- that makes sense.
I mean, and you know, it's-- it's great
to fill in more of that.
But here, yeah.
We get to see a lot more of, like, where he started out,
some of the things he had to deal with--
you know, obstacles, the stuff with his dad--
hate his dad-- and then also, I just thought
it really helped you see that--
where he was coming from originally,
especially, you know, leading up to him leaving the Jedi.
And like with Anakin-- you know, we saw some in "Revenge
of the Sith," we saw a lot in "The Clone Wars"--
but here we get with Dooku--
he was pushing against the Jedi for pretty admirable reasons.
And often, you could completely be on his side about,
what are you doing, Jedi?
And you probably have a better way of doing things.
- Dooku, in general, almost needs somebody to humanize
him and keep him grounded.
And Sifo-Dyas does that really well in that, you know,
he teases him, he pokes at him, and he reminds him of, you
know-- that he is human, and--
although everybody keeps on calling him,
like, the perfect Jedi before--
like Anakin, who is considered to be, like,
one of the most powerful Jedi.
- [INAUDIBLE]
- Yeah, exactly, like, pumping up his ego.
- But I also want to talk a little bit more
about Dooku's biological family because besides Jenza, I don't
know that anybody in that family was really going
to help him stay on the path.
- Certainly his dad and his brother.
- Right.
The only note I made about his father just says "Gora sucks."
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
- Big jerk.
- Yes, because I was just so mad every time he was in the book--
and I know that's the point of him-- but you know,
just that whole section where they talk about how he left
Dooku outside of the castle walls, like,
essentially, like, naked in a basket, just,
like, waiting for the Jedi. [INTERPOSING VOICES]
- He was like--
yeah, he was like, hey, Jedi, I have a poor, sensitive baby.
Going to leave it outside.
Hope nobody eats it.
Like, what is wrong with you, man?
But you know, from knowing that is Dooku start.
Even though he has the guidance of the Jedi,
do you think he really had a chance to not turn
to the dark side once he discovered, you know,
where he came from and how he was cast out,
and just, you know, had that shame to carry around?
- Yoda's advice was to repress his darkness.
And, oh, Yoda.
- Yoda.
- Yeah.
He-- he didn't give the best advice, actually,
because, you know, as we all know, if you've ever
had therapy or anything, you need to, you know,
work through these things, and understand
how to organize them in your brain,
and what they mean to you.
- In a way, I feel like--
and.
I think, purposely-- we didn't quite
actually get to the moment of return yet only because--
- Mmm
- --they don't-- they show him meet Palpatine.
But then, we basically-- after he renounces being a Jedi,
the next time we see him is he is fully Sith.
You know, what could have happened afterwards--
he's now trying to rebuild his people, he's left the Jedi,
but he's still, you know, sort of--
still trying to do the right thing--
that, you know, he-- he had a lot of baggage, clearly,
and-- that Palpatine was able to use and to build upon.
- Yeah, we do see him at his weakest
when he, through, Ventress's vision,
he's, like, all disheveled and, you know, it's at some point--
- Hasn't bathed.
- --hasn't-- hasn't bathed, and is-- is feeling
like there's no way out.
And like, that-- like, being trapped in a feeling,
like there's no way out, is how the dark side gets you.
- I think all of the events in the book
are just like tumbling dominoes because he
learns about all the secrets that
have been kept by all the Jedi.
And, you know, there's Braylon, who has a baby.
And she says she found it, and it's Force-sensitive.
And it's definitely not hers.
And she-- you know, he learns that there's
a Jedi-correctional facility.
And, I think, all of those things
are almost a nail in the coffin for him
to be like, this is so messed up.
Why am I here?
And none of these people are listening to anything,
you know, that's going on.
- And there are so many parallels between,
you know, what Dooku's going through,
and what Yoda has a front seat to as his master,
and then what we later see Anakin going through.
And it's interesting to me that Yoda--
you know, he does seem to learn some things over the course
of the story, but he doesn't learn
enough to see the problems as they're coming up with Anakin
and then, you know, treat him differently
than they did with Dooku.
- This will lean into, you know, good speculation to what--
will the Jedi Order be, like, in the higher public, right--
because who knows, right?
Will they be more, like, leans, or will they be more like Yoda?
And we'll find out, right, which will be really cool.
- And there was a mention of a Jed--
fallen Jedi during the High Republic in this story.
- Yeah.
- Yes.
- Yes, one of the lost--
was it the lost 10 or lost 20?
I think it's lost 20?
- Well, it's the lost 20 by Dooku.
But at this point-- [INTERPOSING VOICES]
- Mm.
It's the lost 10.
- Yes.
Yes.
No, I love that hint about the Padawan Teradine
from the era of the High Republic, which--
I read it, and I thought, oh, Kevin Scott--
he's just, like, sprinkling things in here
for us to find later.
Were there any other Easter eggs that you
really enjoyed or anything that popped out for you?
- I loved all the Sith stuff--
the bogan, the artifacts, the relic hunting, and the animal,
like, control for Sith versus, you know, kinship with Jedi.
KRISTIN BAVER: Yeah.
- That was awesome because we see a lot
of that in rebels with Ezra.
And--and it-- it actually brings it to life a lot more.
- I noticed, too, there is another mention of [INAUDIBLE]..
And that made me, like, cheer up.
I was like, oh, yeah, I love that place.
- It's a connected universe.
Yay.
- The world was super cool, though,
in the way that Dooku learned to guide the bird,
like, through the forest.
- Also, I felt like, while Qui-Gon
was not directly at a pod race in this story, he's at a race.
And just the fact that he mentions
in "Phantom Menace" he'd already been to a pop race--
I'm like, this guy's been to a few.
[LAUGHTER] He's seen a few races across the galaxy
at this point.
- Thank you all for joining us today.
This has been a really great discussion.
I could talk to you about Dooku all day long.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
- All right, well, thank you so much for joining us today,
Kevin.
We really appreciate it.
- Thanks for having me.
- We have a number of really great social questions, some
from folks who love the show and write
in almost every week, and some from some friends
that, I think, you'll recognize.
- Really?
That's not in any way worrying.
[LAUGHTER]
- It's all right.
We'll get there.
All right.
- One of them's going to be Justina Ireland.
I know it.
- One of them is going to be Justina Ireland.
She couldn't help herself, and I love it.
- Of course she couldn't.
- This one's from the Bobby Linn cabin--
"Your love of Dooku made this story so great
and made me care about him way more than I ever did before.
How many times did you try and sneak Jaxxon into this story"?
[LAUGHTER]
- I try and sneak Jaxxon into every story, even
ones that aren't "Star Wars."
Well, there is a Lep--
we have got a Lapi in this.
If you listen to the race that Dooku goes to visit,
there's a Lapi, and there's the mention of the planet.
And so most of the things I write have
some kind of funny in them.
- As you guessed, this one comes from Justina Ireland.
- Oh, God bless her.
- "Cav, are there any High Republic
hints in 'Jedi Lost'"--
eyeball emoji.
- Yes.
- Can you elaborate?
- Well, the-- it was the first time it was mentioned--
first time we mentioned The High republic.
It was funny because when-- when I was writing this,
we had put in all the pictures of what the Project Luminous
would be, and we didn't know which one it
was going to be at that point.
So actually, there are hints in "Jedi Lost" for the other four
concepts as well.
- This one's from Adam Odle.
"Hi, Kevin.
I absolutely love "Dooku--
Jedi Lost"-- brilliant work.
My question for you is, how early did you
decide that Ventress would be the audience's narrative
pathway in Dooku's back story?
- It was part of the brief that Ventress was going to be there
in a sort of framing sequence, but we didn't really
know how that would work.
And I think it was quite early on that I
thought that she'd be a good voice for it,
she'd be a good narrator.
But that's mainly because I just love Ventress,
and I thought it'd be really interesting to have
a narrator who is really snarky, and doesn't really
want to be there, and in fact, wants to kill most
of the people in the story.
- Kanjichris Standor writes, "Which
of the large cast of characters did
you have the most fun writing"?
- Ventress because she could say exactly what
she was thinking at any time.
And I loved to write-- the scene that I didn't know I was going
to write until it happened was the alien hitting
on her in a bar and how-- how she reacted to it.
And I love it when that happens with characters,
that you don't-- you just know you've got to get to A--
A to B, and you don't really know how you're going to do it.
And then they just present themselves
with a perfect solution.
- This one comes from @sleepyfetts.
"What's Dooku's favorite color, and why"?
- Um, I don't--
that's a thought.
I'm not really sure.
- We've stumped him!
We're stumped Kevin.
You know what-- I'll give you a bit of an out to shift
this question a little bit.
In, your head, Cavan, what do you think Dooku's
favorite color is, and why?
- No, because it's [INAUDIBLE].
[LAUGHTER]
- But it-- it's one of those questions I don't--
I don't know because-- is it--
there should be a deep and meaningful reason.
Colors are important.
You can't just say, oh, turquoise.
You know, it's--
- Sure.
- I mean, you might like turquoise.
And there's nothing wrong if you do like turquoise.
You're not going to turn to the dark side, but you might.
Tell you, OK, I got the answer.
Go on.
Ask me again.
- OK, all right.
In your head, Cavan, what's Dooku favorite color?
- I think, if you look at his choice of pajamas
in "The Clone Wars," it's obviously brown.
They're definitely brown.
They're good pajamas.
I wish I had pajamas like that.
And I think he would have worn pajamas like that
through most of his career, even his Jedi one.
I don't even know if Jedi wear pajamas.
And they won't be silk if they-- if they did--
except for, I think, Dooku would have snuck some in somehow.
So, yeah, I think brown because of his pajamas.
He's definitely a pajama man.
We know this.
- So I know you can't say a lot about "Star Wars--
The High Republic."
But since we just got our first look
at the first couple of pages from your "Marvel" issue
number 1, "Star Wars--
The High Republic"-- can you tell us a little bit more
about what we can expect from that series?
- Yeah, so Ari and I are putting the final touches together on
the first issue at the moment.
I'm-- he's starting work on issue 2,
which takes Keeve's story on.
And in issue 1, we first meet Keeve as a Padawan with scare
being her master.
By the time you get to issue 2, she is now full Jedi.
And so she's out there, she's having missions, and she's--
the safety net is gone.
- Thank you so much for joining us, Cavan.
- Bye.
Take care.
- And thanks to all of you who read along
and sent in your questions.
Come back next time when "The Star Wars Show
Book Club" gets inside the head of a Sith lord,
with "Darth Vader--
Imperial Machine" by Charles Soule.
You can tweet us your questions for the author
using #swsbcdarthvader, and we'll ask them on the show.
Until then, may the force be with you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]