>>>>Dean Grillot: Continuing with our discussion about society and culture around the world,
we're going to focus now on Latin America. And with me today to discuss this part of
the world is Professor Clemencia Rodriguez, a professor of communication and women and
gender studies, and Professor Marcelo Rioseco, a professor of Spanish literature and language.
Thank you for joining me today. Professor Rodriguez, we're going to start with you.
You're from Colombia, and so we're going to talk a little bit about-- maybe you could
tell us a little bit about Colombian culture and society. What are some of the characteristics
of Colombian culture and society?
>>Professor Rodriguez: Okay, so that's a very difficult question to answer, and so I'm going
to kind of shift the focus of the question a little bit. There's a very famous Argentinian
writer called Jorge Luis Borges, and he, he knew a lot about Colombia, spent time in Colombia,
and knew a lot of Colombians, and he had a very-- a phrase, he said something that became
a very famous kind of thing for us to to say about Colombians and that is that "Being a
Colombian is an act of faith." And so what that means is that there's really nothing
substantial that you can call Colombian-ness or that is the essence of Colombian culture.
In Colombia is is is it's a nation made out, made up of very different regions, and the
regions have their own specific culture, their own idiosyncrasies, and the differences between
people, culture, cuisine, music, ways to see and to understand life and death and love
and everything in one culture are so sharply different from other cultures that it's almost
like we, you know, we we have to believe that there's something called Colombia that we
all belong to, but beyond that belief there's really nothing there.
>>Dr. Grillot: Very interesting. Professor Rioseco, would you say the same is true about
Chile?
>>Professor Rioseco: I would say the same. I would say this is quite difficult to define
Chilean culture. I would say that Chileans are not really interested in defining the
culture. They think they are Chileans, whatever that means. And at the same time, there is
a strange sensation in a country like mine, which is that some people think that the country
probably doesn't really exist. I was this summer with a Jewish Chilean, right, and he
said, "I don't know if this, the culture Chile or the meaning of the the country is really
for me." Meaning probably that we know the country, we live the country, but there is
something that is running away from us all the time. So I would say that I totally agree
with Clemencia.
>>Dr. Grillot: So these are two very diverse countries is what I'm hearing from you--
>>Professor Rioseco: Totally different.
>>Dean Grillot: --that within within the countries you have a lot of differences, and you can't
really sum up what each society and culture might represent. But let's kind of extend
this discussion to Latin American society and culture. I mean both of these countries
are part of the region of Latin America. How, can you describe at all what Latin American
culture is? Is that, you know, do Colombians, do Chileans see themselves as Latin American
first or foremost, or do they see themselves as Colombian or a certain part of the region
of Colombia? I mean, how how would you connect Latin American culture and society, is there
such a thing as, you know, certain cultural concepts? I mean most of Latin America speaks
Spanish, for example. You know, are there are there things that bind Latin Americans
together: language, religion perhaps? What do you think?
>>Professor Rodriguez: Well I I I think that we as Latin Americans, we discover Latin America
when we leave it, when we're out of it. When-- growing up in Colombia I never really felt
that I was a Latin American. I was not paying attention to what that is. I learned a lot
of history of Colombia and geography of Colombia, but but you don't have a point of view that
allows you to see that you're part of a region. And so when I came to the U. S. to pursue
graduate studies, that's when I discovered that from this perspective here, then you
look-- you can look down and you say, "Okay, there's something there called Latin America."
And I think because the contrast with the lifestyle and the way of being and the way
of socializing, for example, even partying, with the U. S. is so strong, that's when you
start realizing, okay, we don't belong here. We act very different from the people here.
And you start interacting with other people from other regions of Latin America with Mexicans,
and Chileans, and Argentinians, and Bolivians, and they start saying the same - we don't
belong here either. Our way of partying is not like the people here, and that's when
you start kind of putting together this notion of Latin America. I think the language is
part of it, but if you think like about English, for example, speaking English doesn't necessarily
mean that you belong to the same culture because then you would have to say Australia, New
Zealand, England, and the U. S. and or India -- I mean that they all speak English, and
that doesn't mean much beyond you speak English. So the lang-- so that's that's what happens
with those type of questions. Every time you try to answer the question, you're you're
only going to grasp a tiny bit of the answer, and the bit is so small that it really is
not an answer, so you end up with the same question. I would say, that the last thing
I'm going to say about this is in order to learn or to really understand what Colombia
is or what Chile, you have to go or what Latin America is, that's the only way.
>>Professor Rioseco: And this is the best country to discover that, because you really
meet a lot of people from different countries. But when you are in Chile or you're in Colombia
and Argentina, Argentina's Argentina, Chile's Chile, and people say, "I am Chilean, I am
Argentinian." And when you ask them about Latin America, they don't really understand
the question. Because I ask a lot of Chilean that question, and some say, they look at
me say, "What do you mean and why are you asking that question?" That was even more
important. In my opinion, that's a big mistake because in in a way we are not looking our
history and some political issues, which are common in all the countries. So but, I don't
know why people are not really looking at themselves as a Latin American people, but
only people from the the country. We don't really pay-- as Chileans, we don't really
pay attention to the neighbors, to the Peruvians, Bolivians, and Argentinians, and it's the
same from those countries. But I would say there there is something in common, and and
that thing probably is the history.
>>Dean Grillot: So on that note then, I mean, is it history that really does bind the region
together? And and is that recognized across the region in terms of the the colonial heritage,
for example, or--
>>Professor Rioseco: And the foundations--
>>Dean Grillot: --yeah.
>>Professor Rioseco: --the way that the whole part of the continent was treated by the Spaniards.
I would say that made a big mark in our culture, but that is my my personal opinion. I don't
know if you agree with me?
>>Professor Rodriguez: Yeah, I obviously, I mean, as any other any culture, I think
the yeah the the type of colonization that we got from Europe, which is very different
from the colonization processes in the U. S. and Canada, for example, that is part of
the is part of the equation. The the fact that there were different types of communities
that intersected there with the indigenous communities that were already there, the Spaniards
and Portuguese and other Europeans that came with colonization, the Africans that came
through the slave trade, and all the mixing. There's also I think one of the things that
to me is more, explains Latin America is that these different human communities actually
ended up mixing and and having children together, and and creating a new racial mix, which is
the mestizo, and Marcello and I are good examples of of that. And you know, you have people
in Latin America that within the same family, that are all shades within the same family.
And that it's very different from here where communities, different human communities came
to the United States, but they kind of stayed kind of segregated. In Latin America there
was a big mix from the very beginning, I mean, from the 1500s. And so that created a very
different type of socializing, different type of relationship between people, different
type of relationship between people and nature, because whatever the Africans brought with
them is part of the culture, and whatever the Europeans brought with them, religion,
for example. I mean, people say that Latin American is Catholic, but that's not really
true. Because inside that Catholicism in Latin America, there's a lot of indigenous spirituality,
and there's a lot of African spirituality. So it's like a Latin American invention that
we call "Catholic", but it has very little to do with the Catholicism in Rome.
>>Professor Rioseco: Well, depends on the region. Because of course, that is true in
Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, but in Chile, Argentina, Catholic is very-- I want to say pure. But
it's it's strange because it's our religion, but it's very flexible. So it's not a way,
the best way to define Latin America. Neither the language, probably the culture and I would
add the relationship with Spain during the 19th century and with this country, the [United]
States, during the 20th century. I think that that is something very important for Latin
American culture. But if you asked me for one, or maybe a core that defines Latin American
culture, it's it's very difficult to say something accurate.
>>Dean Grillot: Well so last thing then. I mean, what I'm hearing from you is that this
region is very diverse. Each country is very diverse. The region is very diverse. It's
it's made up of lots of people, of lots of different backgrounds. And Clemencia, even
though you made some comparison to the United States, I mean, for from from, you know, my
background is multiple different European populations, predecessors. You know, all my
ancestors were from different European backgrounds. So I, I think in some ways we we have that
in common, right, is that that that those differences, those different peoples and societies
that came together and created new societies elsewhere. So that leads me to this last question.
You know, the impact, I mean, globalization as it is there's a lot of travel, a lot of
visiting, a lot of, you know, exporting of goods and services and things that that, you
know, culture in the sense of ideas, films, movies, you know literature--
>>Professor Rodriguez: Media.
>>Dean Grillot: Media, yeah. Media of all kinds. So, you know, are we now becoming perhaps
more like one another than than different from one another?
>>Professor Rodriguez: I don't think so. I think that the, there is there's a layer of
homogeneity that if you look at, for example, what's on primetime TV in Colombia or even
Chile and Norman, Oklahoma, it would probably be very similar. But when you look at how
young people are living their lives, what is happening in Latin America in terms of
the new generations reinventing society and reinventing what they want to do with their
lives, I don't I don't see them-- I see them that what they're doing out there down there
is very different from, for example, my students here at the University of Oklahoma. If you
compared the type of university student in in Latin America is, I I I don't see them
as as homogenous. They listen to different music, they have different types of interaction
with the media. Even though they may watch, for example, something as simple as The Hunger
Games that was kind of a wave of enthusiasm here. I went to Colombia and I mention it
and no one knew what I was talking about. So I it was in the theaters, it had been in
the theaters, but no one really engaged with it that much.
>>Professor Rioseco: Yeah well, this decision is very tricky in my opinion because we have
the sensation that we are in this huge village, which is the world, but the same time my feeling
is that people are becoming more local, more isolated, and I think that is a serious problem
now especially among young people. Chileans, for example, are very-- they are always trying
to be cool with technology, but at the same time all the discussions are Chilean: about
Chilean issues, Chilean problem and very politics. So this, they have the the this access to
a world through technology, but at the same time the conversations are not global at all.
So I don't know if that is a special new phenomenon, but I think this is a serious problem in in
my opinion, and and that is what is going on right now in Chile.
>>Dean Grillot: Well thank you both for your perspectives on Latin American identity.
>>Professor Rioseco: Thank you.
>>Professor Rodriguez: You're very welcome.
>>Dr. Grillot: So students - tell us what you think. Now that you've learned a little
bit about Latin American identity, what do you think about Latin American identity, society
and culture? What would you say if you were to see the world from a Latin American perspective?
What might you view in terms of the relationship between that part of the world and other parts
of the world? Let us know.