Me no?
Oh, this camera?
Oh, these fancy cards.
All right, what's your process of adapting a play from start to finish?
"Process" makes it sound quite grand, actually.
It makes it sound like it's really organised and I know what I'm doing.
There's no point approaching it as an academic exercise.
Everything you do has to feel fresh for someone looking at it for the first time.
But really, it was feeling my way through it, until I felt like
I had enough of a handle to think, 'OK, that's the version of this that I want.'
You say that, but I'm sure I remember when you were doing The Seagull
that you also tried pulling it apart, cutting characters, mixing it up...
– Yes. – Seeing what you liked.
It was partly born out of the desire not to be scared of it.
I think, what you find with writers that are brilliant, like Chekhov and Molière,
there's a robustness to them, they need you to kick them around a bit
and they can completely withstand it.
You start realising why they've made these decisions.
Actually, the process of that and trying to go different ways,
means that you don't just accept things being the way they are for the sake of it.
You need that robustness to come up with a version where you think,
'Every moment of this is going to land without any need for notes.'
How did we meet? We met when you interviewed me for a job!
That's exactly how we met. I know. Lucky me.
It was downstairs in the Curzon.
– It was downstairs in the Curzon. – In Soho, that's right, isn't it?
Yeah, I met four writers and you were the first writer and you were so brilliant
you then wiped out all the other writers.
Both times we've worked together
there hasn't been a huge amount of discussion around it.
We just talked about our ideas and it feels like...
I feel really confident with your work on it.
I feel super-confident with yours, but it's also because I love your writing.
I think that the way that you...
Everything from the over-arching meaning of the play,
to the way that it's constructed, to the way that the lines have the rhythm
which reflects the thoughts of the character,
but is also super-funny and the politics underlying it.
All of this, I'm a huge fan of. I love it. I find it really exciting.
So, I feel as though, when I'm working on a play of yours,
it's already in safe hands.
Part of directing, or developing stuff with writers, is about...
There are lots of people who can tell you what's wrong with stuff,
but the art of sort of knowing,
'Here's one of the things where I do need to intervene.
'Here's something I know they'll get there.'
You're good at that, and what that does is it gives me a degree of confidence
that you trust me with stuff.
So, again, those conversations,
you're good at just gently saying,
'Well, if you want to do this, we should look in this direction.'
It was very light-touch, but really useful.
Oh, I'm really glad.
OK, so, the writer in the room. Joy.
At what point did you decide... you've had enough of me in the room?
I'm never going to decide I've had enough of you in the room.
– That's for the camera. – Yeah!
Yeah, yeah. Cos you're brilliant in the room.
But also, what you do, which is wonderful – you're very tactful.
You've got to be careful, because you know that the actors are going to start to act
hoping that it's what the writer wanted,
as opposed to what they themselves have found.
They start to go, 'Is this right? Is this right?' as they act.
Instead of discovering it for themselves.
You sit there and occasionally help! (LAUGHS)
– That's so, so nice of you. – I like having you around.
And occasionally, I can look at you and go, 'John Donnelly.'
– (LAUGHS) – 'What do you think about this moment?
Yeah, yeah. And you're very encouraging in that way.
– I never feel unwelcome, which is good. – You're always so welcome.
Now we'll have to hug!
The process of developing a play is that it's yours,
and then you trust me with it and give it to me.
And then I give it to the actors,
and then the actors give it to the audience and the audience have the power.
And so, all of it is a process
of making that transition of power as smooth as it can be.
Apparently, kings and queens and audiences are who you bow to.
And so you're saying, 'You have the power.'
– I like that. – 'It's yours.'
– How do we stay motivated? – How do we stay motivated?
Well, for me, it's... fear is part of it, I think.
Sheer blind terror!
Yeah, just the sense that you, seriously,
the sense that 900 people watch any given show.
That sense of 'Is it good enough? Is it ready? Can it be better?'
Particularly thinking about the kind of history of this building,
the things that have been on this stage
– and wanting to do something really good. – Yes!
Wanting to rise to the challenge of the Lyttelton.
– Yes! – And realising all that can achieve.
Thinking, 'I've not had a show on here. I want it to be great.'
That's the thing all the way through the process of the whole thing for me.
It's been the thing which makes me look at a draft and think,
'That's not good enough. It needs to be better.'
You get into rehearsals and hear a line and think, 'No. That needs to be better.'
And with the director and with the actors...
As soon as you give a line to a really good actor
and the line's not quite as good as it should be, it exposes it,
and you think, 'I've got to meet the challenge they're setting me.'
– Yes. – It's that thing, all the way through.
Some shows that changed my life were in the Lyttelton.
So, I know it's a space that I want to make something
that is right for it and impresses it.
I have all of that, and also that moment where you fall in love with the play.
– Yeah. – And slightly with the cast.
And go, 'I know that you have infinite potential,
'and I can open this up to the widest possibility.'
How exciting it is to do that!
How do you, you... How do you know when the play is ready at any stage?
Or how do you know when a scene's ready
and when do you give notes, when do you stop?
Well, it's a funny thing because, especially working on a comedy,
you know when the audience turn up what the play is.
– Yeah. – So, the first night, the first preview,
is the first time that I know what it is that we've made,
– because they will tell us what it is. – Yeah!
It's like the other half of the cast turn up
and go, 'Now we're ready to do the play!'
Everything that I do until that point
is trying to make it as robust and flexible as possible,
so when the audience do show up,
and they start interacting with it, ideally, by laughing,,,
As far as I'm concerned, it will never be ready in the rehearsal room.
It will probably get close to ready once we've done a few previews,
just because the actors will be more at ease
with that discussion they're having with the audience.
Of course, there comes a certain point,
press night, when I say to them, 'You own it.'
'From now on, it's yours to do and I'm not going to come and badger you.'
What we do have, of course, is the amazing Ed Madden, staff director,
who will pop in to keep it from evolving too far
in too elaborate a direction.
– Yes, yeah. – His job is to keep it fresh.