well the legislature in arkansas
recently passed a bill that would ban
doctors from prescribing so-called
puberty blockers heavy-duty hormones to
children
who believe they're transgender the law
also bans
surgeons from physical castration of
children
but the governor of arkansas asa
hutchinson vetoed that bill on monday
legislatures in arkansas just voted to
override
that veto which brings us to where we
are right now ace hutchinson is the
governor of arkansas and he joins us to
talk about this story governor thanks so
much
for coming on i really appreciate it in
the middle of all this
now i i think of you as a conservative
here you've come out
publicly as pro-choice on the question
of chemical castration of children
what changed well first of all
your teaser as you led into this program
did not accurately represent the bill
if this had been a bill that simply
prohibited chemical castration i would
have signed the bill but tucker as you
know
this bill was overbroad it was extreme
it went far
beyond what you just said and i made it
clear that this
if this was about prohibiting uh
procedures
uh sex reassignment surgery absolutely i
would have signed that bill
but this again is the first law in the
nation
that invokes the state
between medical decisions parents who
consent to that
and the decision of the patient and so
this goes
way too far and in fact it doesn't even
have a grandfather clause that
those uh young people that are under
hormonal treatment
if i could become
this is chemical castration of course if
you stop puberty and suppress the sex
hormones you're chemically castrating
someone
so our our description was correct but
let me just ask you i mean there are all
kinds of we're talking about minors
children here and there are all kinds of
things in arkansas
kids in every state are not allowed to
do get married drink a beer get a tattoo
why do you think it's important for
conservatives to make certain that
children
can block their puberty be chemically
castrated why is that a conservative
value
if you would tell us well first of all
you have parents
involved in very difficult decisions you
have physicians that are involved in
these decisions
and i go back to william buckley i go
back to ronald reagan the principles of
our party
which believes in a limited role of
government are we as a party abandoning
a limited role of government
and saying we're going to invoke the
government decision making
over and above physicians over and above
health care over and above parents
and saying you can't do you believe it's
healthy you're not engaged
how much how deeply have you studied
this this topic
with respect it doesn't sound like
you've studied it very deeply i mean
this is an
emerging field there's not a lot of
research but the research that exists
suggests
that depression and the urge to
self-harm and suicide
is a component is a side effect of
taking these hormones a study in the uk
show the overwhelming majority of kids
of children on puberty blocking
hormones had the urge to hurt themselves
why is that
responsible medicine to do that to
children why would you support something
like that
well i actually reviewed some of that
study i reviewed the high court decision
there
and i think they are different than what
you're talking about here
sure there's a lot of unknowns here uh i
studied this bill
in contrast to what you just said i
spent a lot of time
reviewing cases meeting with people
listening to the experts as well as to
faith leaders as well
and i'm a person of faith but at the
same time
i'm a person of limited role of
government i signed pro-life bills
uh i signed uh many bills that
would be looked at as a very
conservative but this is one that
crosses the line
there's no need for it hold on hold on
i'm sorry but hold on
did you you've said that you've seen
research that shows the mental health
of children who receive puberty blocking
drugs improves what is that research
exactly
well the research that i've seen shows
that
these troubled youth these ones that
have gender dysphoria that they
also have depression they have suicidal
tendencies it's a higher suicide rate
than others
and they go to their parents the parents
go to doctors
and they try to deal with this very
difficult issue
i don't think we should deny that
i'm sorry i'm sorry you're the governor
you just vetoed this bill you said
you're familiar with the studies
no one disputes that children who are
asking for puberty blocking drugs or
been recommended their parents or
doctors may be depressed that seems very
likely i think the studies show it
cite one specific study that shows
puberty blocking drugs
improves the condition does it make
children
less depressed does it make them less
likely to harm themselves to commit
suicide just name one study that shows
that please
well i would refer you to the american
academy of
pediatrics i would refer you to
the into the the physicians that came
out in opposition to this bill because
they
understood the risk to these young
people and if
you prohibit uh the medical care that
this bill prohibits then you're going to
endanger
uh these young people even further so i
would say
existed this field barely existed 10
years ago
cases of gender dysphoria so-called have
increased by thousands of percent in the
last decade
so actually we can't know the answers to
these questions the the the research
that we have suggest the opposite of
what you're claiming
you clearly aren't familiar with the
research and so my question is have you
spoken to any of the biggest employers
the big companies in arkansas about this
have you taken any calls
from tysons from dillard from walmart
has anyone from those companies called
you about this bill
no but tucker you're saying first of all
you haven't spoken
no no there is a there is not
a single study that i'm aware of that
shows an
improvement in the mental health of
children who take puberty blockers who
are chemically castrated and you
couldn't cite one
you're not familiar with their research
you were told by doctors that it's a
good idea and you went with it but i
just want to clarify very quickly
have you and i just want to be clear on
this have you spoken to
any corporate interest in the state of
arkansas about
this bill tucker i answered that
i answered that question and i said no i
have not
no you have another question
i'm skeptical because we've certainly
seen across the
let me just say governor with respect
i'm skeptical that not a single
corporation in the state of arkansas has
weighed in with you one way or the other
on this bill
i am i'm skeptical you asked me if i
talked to them
i said i hadn't let me emphasize tucker
you are a conservative you have a great
background in that
where are we getting back to the limited
role of government that we don't have to
invoke ourselves
in every societal position out there
let's limit the role of government okay
let's play parents
then why don't we allow 18 year olds to
drink beer in arkansas
why don't we allow them to get tattoos
why don't we allow 15 year olds to get
married
you're allowing you vetoed a bill that
would have protected children not adults
children to whom a different standard
applies from a
life-altering permanent procedure that
has effects we can only guess at but the
early indication is they're very serious
and very negative in some cases
and now you're telling me you do that
because you're a friend of limited
government okay then why are we
preventing kids from drinking sincere
question or getting married sincere
question
having sex they're not old enough to
have sex but they're old enough to be
chemically castrated how does that work
exactly i'll listen
as you explain well thank you tucker and
first of all
these are difficult decisions do you
want to listen to
the medical profession do you want to
listen to professional counselors do you
want to listen to parents
or do you want to leave all these
decisions to the
legislators that come from all different
kinds of background yes they're
elected to represent you but they do not
necessarily
make the right judgments for parents and
for doctors in the most sensitive issues
and so sure why would you why are we
regulating the behavior of children at
all
if we're allowing children to decide and
by the way i read a study today that
showed the overwhelming majority of kids
who do not take life-altering hormones
in the end decide not to quote
transition to a new sex
so there's a lot going on here but i'm
asking as
a conservative you just incited invoked
ronald reagan as if he were for chemical
castration of children
what other behavior should we not use
the power of the state
to regulate among kids seriously
well every time and see look tucker you
want to keep talking you want me to
answer a question
well thank you and so whenever you
whether it's
it's beer for minors these are all
issues that you have to address the
legislature you make judgment calls on
it
but we also try to restrain ourselves as
conservatives
that we don't have to be involved in
every issue and if you want to broaden
the party
if you want to get back to the
principles then let's at least think
through
in a reasoned way as to whether
this is the right bill to interfere with
parents
and doctors decisions on a health care
matter as you pointed out
has does not have thorough research in
every area
and so i yield to that whenever you look
at this bill
it might yield to the lack of research
really quick ten years ago if somebody
had said hey asa hutchinson you're gonna
be governor of arkansas
and you're gonna veto a bill that would
have protected children from chemical
castration
what do you think you would have said
well just like i said today if you're
talking about
a reassignment surgery i would have
signed that bill in a minute
but whenever you're talking about maybe
less than 200 kids in arkansas that's
currently on
hormone treatment and they are
immediately cut off
without having a grandfather clause in
this legislation
i don't think that's treating those kids
or their parents or their
health care providers fairly or equally
all right that's the conservative
position governor thanks i appreciate
coming on