yeah and that what where that strikes me is so interesting and I try to explain
this to people all the time because well in the SEAL Teams again you you might
think the same thing well the biggest toughest seal that can destroy everyone
else is gonna be the leader that everyone looks to and it's just not true
and in fact a lot of times those guys that might be the biggest and the
strongest and the fastest they're they're actually arrogant as well
because they've they think they can beat everyone and no one wants to work for
those people and so it happened when I first started my consulting business and
and I would have you know a CEO say I can't wait till you come in and just
whip my people into shape and I'd say well you need to find somebody else
that's gonna wet people into shape because I don't do that and and they
couldn't quite put together that me would wasn't into whipping people in the
shape and know what I wanted to actually do is teach people to lead and to lead
people my selves and and when you're leading you're not having to whip people
in fact yeah that's an indication that you're not lead exactly that way as a
leader where I the the place where I usually found myself was I'm actually
having to pull the reins back on people because they're going far and away above
what I actually would even want and expect them to do they want to go even
more and do more to accomplish the mission then that's where you want to
get and I find it interesting that you know you talk about that all the time
that it's and it's not the person with the biggest club it's not the person
that's the meanest and the most aggressive sure they might they might
rise for a minute they might get some control and that happens in any
organization oh if you've got a CEO that really he's just a tyrant and everyone's
scared of him he can make some things happen for a little while and then all
of a sudden someone says I'm oh he wants us to do it that way I'm gonna do a
little sabotage right just a little sabotage your project that you want us
to get done by October 31st Oh get the got delayed boss yeah you can go
nuts and you can yell and scream but you should have listened to me when I said
we needed more time and now guess where we are yeah we didn't deliver the
product we're supposed to deliver so you can yell and scream all you want it's
not gonna get that product delivered yeah well any few tyrannize people badly
enough they'll actually hurt themselves to hurt you
so you know they're willing to take a they're willing to take a hit to reclaim
justice let's say so yeah that's really worth knowing and so one of the things
that John Piaget pointed out and because he was he's a very interesting
psychologist a and and he's never taught properly because you know most of these
great thinkers were very strange people and the strangeness gets added out of
their stories and it's really too bad because they're way more interesting
when you know how strange they were and so Piaget was obsessed with the
disjunction between religion and science and his goal as a thinker was to
reconcile the two and so to some degree he was looking for a biological basis of
morality that might be one way of thinking about it or at least to
reconcile the idea of a biological substrate with an emergent morality and
one of the things he said is okay imagine two systems
alright so both systems are moving towards a goal any old arbitrary goal
and in one system the the people within interacting under compulsion and in the
other system the people within it are acting voluntarily said the people who
are acting voluntarily will defeat the people acting under compulsion because
in order to use compulsion you have to spend a fair bit of time and energy on
force and so it makes you inefficient whereas if everybody is together on the
project then they'll you don't have to spend any time on compulsion because
people are compelling themselves and so that's what he called an equilibrate
state so an equilibrate of the state was well we sit down and we have a
negotiation that's a real negotiation so it has to be honest and we say okay well
what the hell are we doing and everyone hashes that out and we decide what we're
doing and then we decide how that would be good for all of us but each of us
singularly as well so if you got your family put together properly then the
whole family moves together but everybody inside moves ahead as well and
so then everybody's pushing in the same you know you know how it is what in a
negotiation you actually want your interests to align with the interests of
the other person because then you don't have to worry about the integrity of the
deal it's like everybody has reasons to but to keep it thriving and the idea
that capitalism in somehow is somehow is predicated on the tyranny of the people
at the pinnacle that happens when it gets corrupt but it doesn't happen at
all when it's working properly because deals that aren't based on mutual
self-interest and group interest simultaneously have to be enforced
usually with lawyers and then you're done right you're done at that point
that's that's actually incredible so I would when I work with companies every
was working with a company is a couple of years ago maybe even three or four
years ago and you know they were talking about how they needed to hold their
salespeople accountable and that's what they needed to do and they needed more
accountability in the sales leadership underneath them needed to hold all their
frontline sales leaders accountable for everything and follow these rules and
make these numbers of calls and do these follow-up things and send the follow-up
emails and they need to get this accountability thing going and this was
the winner when I heard this guy saying this was the first time I said because I
had heard this a lot this is word accountability and leadership you hear
oh well we just need better accountability better accountability and
it's a trick because you think about it and you say to yourself well if I'm in
charge of you guys and I'm gonna hold you accountable to make sure you do
everything you're supposed to do well then we will successfully do what it is
you you will do cuz I held you accountable I made you do it
the problem is in any organization there's too many people hold everyone
accountable to everything that they're supposed to be doing stuff just doesn't
work and so you could take one group and this is what I said if I said if you've
got one group or you have to hold them accountable for each and everything that
you do and you and you try and do that versus a group where people know what
they're supposed to do and they want to go and do it I go which which team is
gonna win and he's another group that wants to do themselves like oh that's
what you need to do is get them to want to do with themselves that's leadership
that's well exactly that's exactly right I mean look if you get people to track
everything they do it takes them longer to track and then to do it plus they
hate it they hate it because they're not being trusted and it's the most terrible
dull administrative work and it just kills people who are actually productive
because they're driven crazy by that it's like leave me the hell alone so I
can do my work