You'll have a sound guy call you, "sweetheart"
and ask you if you know how to turn on your amp
and you'll say that to a man and he'll be like,
"All us sound guys are just assholes."
It's like no, that wouldn't happen to you
There's arguably no band fighting harder
to change Australian music than Camp Cope.
They've launched campaigns against sexual assault
at gigs and their song, 'The Opener', made headlines
when they called out Falls Festival,
amongst other venues and festivals
for not having enough women on their lineup.
Today we are at the Sydney Opera House,
where in a few days, Camp Cope will play
Australia's most iconic stage.
Which is odd for a band whose most iconic song
is all about being constantly told
that women can't sell out big venues.
What was going on in your lives
when you wrote 'The Opener?"
Mmmm...
Now that's a good answer. We'll take that.
That's all good.
It was like, just a build up
of everything we'd experienced. Every bit of
critisism that we had been given by men.
And it was really easy. I just used direct quotes
that by the end of the song, all the men that criticised
me were at the end of the song.
I just wrote it down.
I remember the first time Georgia sent it to us,
I was listening to it and I was like, "Oh"
because I was obviously there
when all of this stuff was being said to us,
and I was like, "How did she get all that to rhyme?
That's pretty good.
It's not about a filling a quota.
We want an equal and inclusive and diverse
music community because that's what it is.
It's just not represented properly.
That is bullshit and we've had enough of it.
We were at that point, I think as a band
where we were selling out our shows.
We were doing really well. We hadn't even imagined
we were getting to the point where we were
and then we still had people
who didn't even play music or things like that
criticising us and still telling us how to do things
and it's like, when you sent that song
we were at that moment where we were
we should have been respected
and we should have been seen like
we knew what we were doing, but people still
weren't treating us that way. People were still giving us
their advice if they were in a band
that played much smaller venues or hadn't even been
played on the radio
but felt like they had to tell us what to do
or what we did wrong
or what we should do the next time and things like that
and you wrote it just at that moment,
I think before things started to shift.
Yeah.
Was there a moment when you concluded that
the lack of respect you were getting
was based on gender?
Or was that something, you'd always known
That's something you just always know as a woman.
You always know it, but then what really surprised me
was that the men didn't know it.
Yeah.
So that was the kind of...
that's what pushed us to start speaking
and being more open about it
because we would be like, "Oh, you know
people are saying this to us. People are doing this."
"This has happened to us" and then someone
would be like, "Do you think that's because
you're a woman?" and I
have had these conversations and I've said,
"Has it happened to you or your friends?"
And they've been like, "No."
And it's just like, "Why, when we're in the same position
as you? Why do you think it hasn't happened to you
but it's happened to us?"
What's the one thing that separates us, yeah.
Like you'll have a sound guy call you,, "sweetheart"
and ask you if you know how to turn on your amp
and you'll say that to a man and he'll be like,
"All us sound guys are just assholes."
It's like no, that wouldn't happen to you
When has some man working
ever called you, "sweetheart"? Like it's so gross.
I don't know. There's different levels of noticing
and like I remember a huge one for me
was when we were here last time.
Before we played here
and a friend of ours who is a musician
said to me...sent me a message and said,
"Hey, you should talk to my friend about booking
for you guys and managing you guys."
And I was like, "Why?"
"You haven't played the Opera House."
Their bands haven't played here.
What have we done so wrong that
you have to think that someone else has to
do my job for me?
We're doing fine by ourself.
What makes you think you have an opinion on
who should do things for us?
What's wrong with playing two sold out shows
at the Drama Theatre?
Could I do better? What do you want me to do?
Play in the Concert Hall?
Alright! Fine!
So what happened was, we got this man to book us
so now we're playing in the Concert Hall.
Ah, this is ruining the narrative.
It always has been a boys club. I remember when I was
really young, going to shows, and it would be like
four white men, four white men, four white men
then you'd be like lucky and sometimes get like,
the female acoustic opener
In terms of the headlines, after the reactions you got from people online
there's an emotional impact, to kind of being involved
in those conversations
What does that do to you guys
being at the centre of that.
The most annoying thing was the people who
were like, 'Oh they're doing it for attention'
but it's like, do you think we're having a nice time right now?
Like, this isn't fun
We're trying to say something
everyone in the music industry is being silent
so we look like, it's not a problem and we're just
being like -
- we're just complaining
- we're complaining. Cos like, no one would back us up.
I was calling for it. I went, PLEASE
I don't know. It was a strange time.
But it certainly wasn't fun.
Yeah it takes a lot out of you.
Yeah it's not fun
I didn't like it. I didn't want to do it and I never want to do it
but it's really nice having a group of people
to do it with, and give you support
And I feel like that's made all the difference
and that's made it
made us able to continue doing it.
Walk me through the decision making process to include
Face of God in the album.
Because it's obviously a song that touches on some very personal
quite traumatic stuff
What were you thinking when you decided, yes, that needs to be out in public.
Yeah, I was really scared people were going to be like,
'Well who is it about,' 'Where's the evidence'
You know, the usual stuff when someone comes out about sexual assault.
Like, they don't get believed cos there's no evidence.
Or something. Umm
Or like, people when they say I'm just doing it for attention
I was really scared of what people would say about it.
And then, the #MeToo movement happened and I was like,
Right. I'm not afraid to tell everyone my story.
I didn't like sit down and go, 'This is how I'm going to get past
my sexual assault - I'm going to write a song about it'
It's just like.. It kinda just happens.
The song kind of writes itself and I'm like
channelling... I'm like a vessel.
All of the stuff that happened in the last six months was like
I don't know, gave us a bit more confidence that people would
not, I don't know, chastise us for it, I suppose.
And the end result has been.. it's really spoken to people.
That song means so much to the people that hear it.
It's really heartbreaking.
But, um...
Yeah, you get this feeling of solidarity with every other
person who's experienced what the song is detailing.
How do you measure success as a band, for you?
How do you know, 'that works, that's us, that's Camp Cope.'
The most successful I ever feel is when
a young girl will come up and talk to us about what we do
and how she wants to make music.
Having someone say that we've inspired them to like,
keeping ploughing through everything and
and just kind of like, do their thing and keep doing it
that's when I feel most successful.
So, there's a line at the end of the song, 'Look how far we've come'
As you stand here, in the middle of the Opera House
about to play the Concert Hall
is there some poetic justice to that?
I don't know, it still feels weird that we can do that
We're already way ahead of where I thought we'd be
and I'm already so proud of us
The end of that song
'Look how far we've come not listening to you' it's like
We've already surpassed what I thought was possible
doing things by ourselves
And it keeps, you know, proving me wrong I guess
everytime as we move forward and forward
So, it embodies the whole - it's not just one particular show
in a great space, it's like, the whole thing
Like we've done it all by ourselves, and we've done it together.
Camp Cope. Play a fucking awesome show at the Opera House.
And thank you so much
Thank you