Now I have with me David, hi David how are you?
Hello I'm very good thanks.
So tell me what your role is at the University?
I am a programme leader for postgraduate Psychology and also
I'm a professor of psychology as well.
I do Forensic Science with Psychology and I am thinking about doing
a postgrad in Psychology, so this is a good thing.
I can tell you more.
So after this we can have a really good chat.
So here I read a blog that you and Myles did for the university and it's been named by
the university's UK, as one of the top 10 best breakthroughs for a significant
impact in everyday life, so can you please talk us through the blog
and the research.
Sure, I can tell you about the research then maybe talk about the blog as well. So the research
the reason why we write, we're acknowledged, as being one of the top innovations is
because we developed an app and the app basically encourages people in their
everyday lives to notice nature, be that squirrels or the trees, the leaf falling
off trees or the changes in the season or the weather so it's to kind of to
notice nature. In quite simple ways, so we originally develop this work with
colleagues in Sheffield and so the the originally app was with colleagues in Sheffield
basically was based in terms of noticing things in Sheffield and then we've taken
that and then done good things Derby has well so you're going to see, okay is
it something special about Sheffield, the answer is no Derby is just as special, possibly more special
we might argue and so what so what we found though with the app is even just
noticing one good thing in nature a day is enough to give people
health benefits particularly kind of mental health benefits and and we made a
deliberate comparison between noticing green things and noticing
kind of grey things or urban spaces and the green things were led to bigger
benefits, significant kind of clinical benefits for people so yes
that's the app in a nutshell
So could we download the app
right now?
We can't at the moment but that's what we're, that's the work we're
just about to be doing.
This is exciting.
We've kind of had really a lot of interest
from places like public health England, who kind of said actually "we want, we
want to be using this app at a national level". So at the moment we were looking at
funding to basically support the app so it goes nationwide and then also we
can see kind of greater benefits across the whole country. One of
the reasons we can't make it available just yet is because the app basically
recognises when people are in green spaces, so with Derby you would say
oh you're in Mearkeaton Park, maybe you might notice some nature, you might
notice some squirrels or some freshly, the smells are freshly mowed grass or the
ducks in the lakes or and so actually what we need what we need to do
is basically find all of the green spaces across the whole of the UK.
So you can imagine it's not a straight forward task, it's going to take a bit of work so we're looking for a
little bit of sponsorship to kind of make that happen but then once we've
done that then that will be kind of like a nationwide survey absolutely
nationwide toll. We hope it'll be on public health England's site that would make us app
number two on their site. So it's not like this 500 apps already so we'd be you know the second app on there.
Is this the current project or nature connectedness that you guys are
doing?
Yeah it's one of them, I mean it's the big one that we've had quite a lot
of significant funding for lots of interest in
collaboration because of that with geographers and epidemiologists also
with app developers and then we're more recently we're also working with, working
with our students and our postgraduate students in data science, so that's
basically, so obviously the the nice thing about apps is to give you an awful
lot of information, they give you information about where you've been,
how quickly has been moving. We ask questions about we about how people are
feeling in those green spaces so our data science people have been doing some
sentiment analysis in terms of what people are writing about. Both in
terms of the actual specifics, so in terms of actually are they noticing?
Indeed they are noticing lots, often trees, but also kind of like this
the emotions that are associated with those things as well so are they kind of
writing about you know nature being calming or exciting or relaxing, so we're
looking at those sorts of descriptive words as well with our
collaborators. Then also where we're also looking at kind of the possible
ways of which nature is benefiting. One of the questions
we're just looking at is "is it because people feel more happy?" and that had that
happiness basically has progressive effects so you get more and more happy
over time as you start doing these things or is it because people may have
been picking up and doing a bit more exercise? or it could be both. So
we've obviously we've got lots of information to look at and the data science people help us
but actually it's with PhD students in the data science so we're collaborating.
Are the students part of a specific course or can it be any PhD student?
It can be any PhD, we're lucky we get to work with
lots of different PhD students. Some of the students we work with are data
science or essentially within computing but and within
maths as well and with psychology students
We've worked with landscape students and also with geography students as well.
Its collaborating with all the different disciplines. Sir Ken Robinson he talks about how in
education you need to be be to collaborate with everybody don't stay,
you do specialise, but also come together as one and collaborate which is what the
University is doing and I can see the benefits they're really good and so
where do you see the research going in the future?
Well I think we've said a little bit about the fact that we are hoping in the
near future that I'm gonna make the app kind of accessible for all yeah then
with the other part which we write about in the blog is actually that we
recognize that there's, that there's more than one way of getting that connection
to nature that we've found to be beneficial. So we've kind of identified a
number of pathways through which nature potentially makes a difference.
So one of those is kind of our senses, so actually there's some nice work with that.
Again, we continue to do collaborative work, indeed you were kind
of right I mean yeah that's our big thing is to collaborate with so
we're just starting collaboration with some Japanese colleagues, there is
those opportunities to go out to Japan and work with those people as well.
I think I'm definitely going to do a postgraduate degree now.
We're kind of looking at with them like actually the experiences of touching
wood, contact with timber and bark and those sorts of things.
We know that kind of listening to bird song as well is an impressive way of
kind of making contact, we've got collaborators up in Edinburgh that we've worked, within the
bigger Sheffield projects as well so there's different ways on which people
can have come into that contact. So we're looking at the
different pathways so you know and the key one which is true meaning so the
fact that people make meaning so the excitement of seeing squirrels, seeing
that daybreak, seeing the sunrise.
I love in the morning when you're going to Markeaton Park, usually after its really cold
when you see the water evaporate it is a beautiful
sceneries absolutely beautiful and after that you feel really good that you've
seen that as well yeah so the benefits are really good. What are the impacts are
happening now with that? For your students and for you as well.
The collaborative possibilities with for students is
really impressive, so the fact that we've got so many
different disciplines involved is exciting and our students like doing that work
and also it kind of gives them up potential opportunities to kind of you
have to travel and to do these things in different places. In terms of the work
that we're doing with the pathways I mean we're always being we're doing
collaborative work with national trust and with also with Wildlife Trusts both
here in Derby but also kind of across the UK as well and then we've got and
we've got big projects and smaller projects so this morning I was
talking to a community garden project based here in Derby and that's
potentially an opportunity to kind of make a real difference locally in terms of
thinking about actually here the sorts of things they're wanting to do and
starting to do in terms of your gardening but also yeah being out in the
fresh air, being kind of a community-based
project obviously it means that people are supported by each other as well and
they're engaging kind of meaningful activity as well so that's kind of like
a small way in which we're doing that but also you know potentially we're kind
of thinking about how do we make Derby a green city how do we kind of shape the
way in which you know the city might kind of evolve over the next few years. I
know obviously there are other cities having the same sort of conversations as you know
we are kind of moving faster and faster
I'm thinking about the technological progress that we're making.
How does that then feed into kind of the green space that we want.
Going on to the blog you guys wrote and talking about the pathways one of them is emotions and you
talked about fostering an emotional bond with and the love for nature and talking
about ways that you can reflect your feelings about nature and you talk about
when you walk in and you see like a leaf falling before you label it just
think about the beauty that you're seeing over there before you see a
beetle and just look at the way that it's moving and appreciate it and
you did mention touch and bark and just listening to the birds before you
label what kind of a bird just listen to what it is and try and have a
an emotion towards it and I have been reading a lot in psychology and how
emotions can help you and how being positive if you got into nature with Derby
because Markeaton Park is just around the corner you can just go in there
just go into the nature for a bit which I've done for quite a while and you
become, your mind is more clear you're able to think properly and when you're doing
work and do your dissertation you're not stressed, those stress levels are lower
so the impact is amazing, do you go into nature?
Yeah every day so Markeaton Park
I do walk across that park everyday, it's partly on my way to work it's
easy to just walk across it but I think the other part, one of the
things we've also recognized is even the small things matter so even if actually
if you're just walking along you know relatively plain streets actually
often there might be a tree, there's obviously people's
gardens actually. That's one of the things we've noticed differences
between Derby City and many Japanese cities, we have gardens.
We're really fortunate, we've got small bits you know the flowers
growing through the crack in the pavement, those those small things
can make a difference those you say it's it's recognizing the beauty within
those small space. It can be just as important in a day-to-day manner as kind
of going out deliberately into green space. I think you're right in terms of
like actually there is something special about going into green space and having
a bit of time to de-stress, that's one of the
bits of work we've published in the last year or so.
It's actually kind of acknowledging across all of these studies
particularly forest bathing studies which is where people deliberately go
out spend some quality time in nature, don't actually necessarily exercise very
much it's not about exercise but actually that those things actually are
physio-logically calming we
have benefits psychologically from doing those activities as well.
So how do students
and how can students and researchers get involved with the project?
Well we've got some opportunities for our students to kind of be involved so we've got a
number of kind of undergraduate projects at the moment that are kind of using and
looking at the pathways and thinking how people might engage with nature in
different ways so one of some other things we've thought but we've not
really tested very much is obviously people have preferences so what works
for one person might be rather different for what works for
another person. So just because a few of us are interested in squirrels that might not be
true for everyone. Might be for some people it actually is just you know
this the smell of grass or the birdsong and not just those particular
acts but actually you know people obviously make meaning and attach
meaning and symbols to nature whereas for others it might actually be about
that initial emotional contact that you have. So the changes that you see
so actually yes you smile when you see the squirrels but for others it might be
actually more about the meaning that they hold for that, actually that
might be, oh yeah that was about there were always squirrels on the way I
went went to school, and it might be actually that idea when my parents took
me to school. It kind of meant and reminds me of that relationship with my with my mum
or you know so it could be that you're making particular meaning and kind of
drawing out your own symbols and thoughts about that whereas
it could just be yeah that was good, that made me happy. So it's kind of looking at that
and recognizing and trying to explore kind of like actually you are
the particular pathways are better? Are they better for particular
groups of people? How does that will relate to things like
childhood experience, there's lots to do.
Is there any way we can find you? Can
we well you've got your blog at the University.
You can look up my university page and look you can receive emails from
people, I'm really interested in actually
you know how these experiences are different in different parts of the
country and also different parts of the world, so yeah very happy to
hear from people about that so. Any funding as well, you don't mind funders
getting involved? So guys get involved if this topic has touched you
and if this topic is something you're really interested in as much as I am
I'll be getting in touch so I recommend that you get in touch as well so thank
you so much David.