Yeah, I had a friend we were on the phone, I guess we were just discussing theology
I believe in God, and you know I'm respectful in regards to people's beliefs and stuff
And he was telling me his beliefs so we just had a conversation you know
It got a little heated, but it's still a respectful conversation at the end of the day.
We were talking on the phone, I would've shook his hand, you know, at the end of the day.
Yeah.
That happens here all the time
Okay, so he told me about the show. He actually gave me the number like, I guess, like a week ago when we had the..
Conversation and he was just you know tune in and talk to them you know just
Talk to them and figure out you know what they're talking about and stuff.
So, what do you believe and why?
Well before I answered that. I was trying to figure out. You know I've never even heard this
I guess is this like the YouTube thing or like the the radio or what's going on
We have been on the
live
cable access show for many years and over time we have just
Diverged from that and just are an internet-only show we've been going on for 20 years now
Really? That's good. That's successful.
Yeah that actually reminds me
They're gonna be putting together like a special video package thing for the 20th anniversary which is going to air...
...immediately following the live show on the 22nd
Really well congratulations, but uh yes, I was just saying you know like I believe in God
He told me like used to be a Christian and everything.
God told you that? Or your friend?
Huh, no no I said, I said my friend Jacob.
Well, I mean it was not clear because you said I used to believe or I believed in God
And he told me that you used to be a Christian and I was like that would be awesome
Well I probably should've made that clear but he was telling me how you used to be Christian
And I'm listening to like your conversations. you sound very intelligent, so I don't think you're not intelligent
Well, thanks
But uh yeah, that's all I was gonna say,I was telling, you know I got believe in God. I want to you know
What are your beliefs, like what is your belief system?
I believe in most of the stuff that everybody else would believe
Is don't believe that a God exists. I don't believe in anything supernatural
I don't believe in afterlifes. I know yeah, I don't I don't know really how to answer that because it's not like
There's a package whenever whatever's going on in the background. We got to turn that off or I'm gonna have to hang up because uh
Yeah
Give me one second, please
Yeah, okay and on the 22nd they will play Best Of clips as it says down there at the bottom
See I know everything that's going on as soon as it pops up on that little
God is talking to us.
By the way that reminds me mark
I have an idea for a t-shirt that we're gonna have to do after we're done with this, but yeah Calvin you there
Yeah, sorry about that.
yeah, so you you asked kind of I
Understand the confusion because if you're a Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or whatever?
You just use that label as kind of like a package for all of your beliefs
but the thing is
There's a thousand different denominations of Christianity so saying you're a Christian really doesn't tell me all that much about your beliefs
It just tells me that you identify as a Christian. I'm an atheist I
accept reasonable findings of science I have
Views on morality that are based on well-being
And freedom and equality and what benefits us, but I couldn't put together a belief system in a package in 30 seconds
Well, I understand what you're saying. I'm, uh, I didn't, actually (incoherent)
Ididn't mean to say Christianity, I meant to say I'm a follower of Christ. I hate saying like
Denominations and like religious, and yeah
But that that doesn't do anything else either. Saying you're saying you're follower Christ is that that's pretty much just useful saying you're a Christian
If you want to say it like that, then, that's what I'm saying. But I'm just saying, you know, I try my best to be like Christ
And I believe God died for our sin's. Like if you used to be a Christian then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Well, that's the thing. This is the shorthand
I suspect that I have a good idea of what you're talking about, but I don't know what you believe specifically or why.
Because it's going to be different for almost every person who identifies as a Christian
Okay, well, okay, so I'm a bible-believing Christian. I believe that the Bible is inspired word of God.
The whole Bible?
Like all 66 books?
Well, we're onto the New Testament, but yes, the whole Bible.
Well, okay, so we're under the New Testament, but okay, so....
But I know about....
I'm sorry, go ahead.
No, you know about what?
No well I'm saying we're on the New Testament now, but I still believe that the
Like the Old Testament is inspired by God - so when God said that it was okay to own slaves that was a good thing?
When God said what? - That it's okay to have slaves that was a good thing?
Well he talked about how to be toward your slaves he said be respectful, and you know he was talking about being respectful to your slaves and all that stuff
But he didn't he never said slavery was bad. - Yeah, you're right. He never said slavery was bad
What what it says in Exodus is it tells you who you can buy as slaves and that you can beat them as long as
They don't die within a couple days and that they were your property that you could pass on to your children are those good things
Well
I'm not sure if you said that in the -
Exodus 21, go read it.
Well, I'm not talking about that verse
I'm talking about he says be respectful towards them like it like, slavery towards like the African Americans or like with the, like anybody whose been enslaved.
The Bible says you can own people as property..
..Pass them on to your children and you can beat them as long as they don't die within two days. Is that a good thing?
Like I said it didn't say that slavery was bad.
Why is it that you can't answer this simple question? Is it a good thing to tell people that they can own people as property?
pass that property on to their children
Buy slaves from the people around them and beat them as little long as they don't die within a couple days
Is that a good thing?
You know was a... OK, I'm gonna just straight up answer the question. Do I think that's a good thing, you know, I can't
I can't really just say like that's like
Obviously you know it isn't I can't just say this the best thing in a world or anything like that
Oh, my gosh listen listen to yourself
I can't say that that's not like the best thing in the world. I can say that it's an abomination!
That no moral being could have ever said. I can say that loud and proud in every freaking week on the show
Why is it that you can't do that?
Well I'm not going to call it an abomination like you did.
why? you don't think that owning people is an abomination?
Yeah, I think it's horrible.
No.
Okay.
And I think this is a prime example of how religions foster evil.
This is all irrelevant as to whether or not there's a God
but if you're arguing that the Bible is the inspired Word of God
and you're reluctant to point out that it contains things that are immoral
and sanctions them.
What else would you say is immoral about it?
Well first of all I don't think I would need anything else you only need the one
*Crowd laughter*
But also I would say that instructions to kill homosexuals is immoral
I would say the subjugation of women is immoral
I would say that having women have an inferior position to men is immoral.
I would say that selling your daughter into slavery is immoral
I would say that God saying I'll let you win this war if you sacrifice
The first thing that comes out of your house when you get home is immoral
I would say that substitutional atonement is immoral
I would say that the very concept of sin is immoral
The idea that I could somehow offend a God or that something that I could think or do which has no..
..Impact on any other person in reality is immoral
I would say that holding someone responsible for the sins of their father under the 4th of the 10th generation is
Immoral how many more do you need before you recognize that you're making excuses for a book that advocates for immoral positions
And you say that in regards to the fact that that's your opinion, which I respect.
Do you disagree? Do you think those things are morally good?
I don't agree with any of the stuff you said, but the one that you made -
Wait a minute. When you say you don't agree with it are you agreeing with me that it's immoral?
I'm disagreeing with your approach to it
So so you're saying those things are morally good?
Well I would have to go one-by-one and talk about each one.
Is it morally good to hold women in an inferior status to men?
Who says that that is an inferior status?
Your Bible
Christ is the head of the church is the same as the husband of the head of the household
Women did not have the same rights that men have. Paul does not permit a woman to teach in church
You're right, he doesn't.
Yeah, is that good? Is that good?
I do think the man should be the head of the household.
Then you are an immoral, inequal, sexist buffoon
You have given up equality in deference to your book
no wonder it's so difficult for you to say that slavery is immoral
It's so difficult for you to say that all the other things. I listed are immoral
I answered your question without difficulty.
Yes, you managed to get the exactly wrong answer without difficulty congratulations
You are willing to sacrifice your humanity in order to appeal to a book that you know to be immoral. You just won't acknowledge it
No I just wont acknowledge your approach to it.
I'm telling you what the book says are you saying I'm wrong about what the book says
I'm saying you're wrong in regards to things that you said about the book
Does Exodus 21 allow people to own slaves as property and to beat them as long as they don't die within a couple days
Is that what Exodus 21 says?
Exodus 21 says they like that but you're not saying that in the right way
Would you like me to read it to you so that you can deny it after I've read it
I know the verse. - No you don't. You either don't know the verse or you are lying about something else
Because I've virtually quoted it verbatim.
I'm saying exactly, even it says exactly like that, like you said, that one verse that you're talking about. What'd you say?
You we're talking about homo. Yeah. You were talking about homosexuality and stuff.
Yeah do you think homosexuals should be put to death? That they're deserving of death?
Well solely, my opinion, I don't think they deserve this but I don't think it's right
So you're saying you don't think they deserve death?
I'm saying in my opinion
I didn't say his opinion. His opinion is different.
Whose opinion?
If God says it's an abomination right
Well, your God's wrong it's that simple.
So who's wrong you or God?
Well obviously me because mine comes from not wanting to harm anyone.
You're wrong
So God says it's an abomination they're deserving of death, you disagree with him, and you are saying that you're wrong?
I agree with it's an abomination, but in my opinion I wouldn't kill them, but you know what God says (incomprehensible)
The issue wasn't whether or not you'd kill them it was the issue of whether or not they're deserving of death
Who's wrong you or God? And if you're wrong why aren't you changing your mind to be right with God?
Didn't you say that you were a follower of Christ and we're doing your best to do what God wants?
How could you possibly sit here and suggest that God's right, but you're gonna continue in your wrongness when your wrongness is actually better
How would I continue in my wrongness because I haven't put anyone to death for that
I'm talking about whether you think they deserve we put to death
I mean like I said it definitely is an abomination, it's not right.
Why is it an abomination?
What's an abomination towards or from?
What is it about two people having sex that is an abomination?
Well simply, from the thing that you just don't seem to get that at the end of the day a religious or not it's someone's opinion solely
I don't care about opinions
If all we're going to do is talk about opinions
I'm talking about you're claiming as the Bible's inspired Word of God
And I'm pointing out things that are objectionable and you are not acknowledging
No, you're not acknowledging my right to the opinion, you're not acknowledging -
I am absolutely acknowledging your right to have an opinion I
I can also point out that your opinion is nonsense
That it is immoral
You could call in and say it's my opinion that it's okay to beat and rape people
But your opinion would be immoral still wouldn't it
And you can say that your opinion is that nothing comes from nothing, that nothing comes from intelligent design and I could say the same thing
My opinion is you just represented a cartoon straw-man of my views because you refuse to honestly defend your own
to the point that you just put yourself at odds with God
Well I don't mind defending mine I'm just saying I'm gonna-
You didn't defend a thing you just blew it off as opinion
God's got an opinion, you've got an opinion, I've got an opinion. Wooh! Look at all the a**holes.
*Crowd laughter*
I said what God says... I mean you can cuss all you want
You're right I can f***ing cuss all I want it doesn't make any difference. Why would you bring that up?
It's not relevant. Why can't you say that slavery is immoral?
Why can't you say that homosexuality is not some kind of abomination?
You really like, you're not having any manners when you have a dialogue or conversation
It's a back and forth. you're on the mic, so you're trying to control the conversation, but you're not being polite.
I think Calvin if you go back we were more than patient with you including giving you time to turn down this sh** that was going on behind you
After pointing it out twice and when I've asked questions
I offered you a chance to respond
You just don't like it because when I pointed out problems with your book you were faced with two possibilities
Holy crap, if I agree with him that means I'm saying there's something wrong with the Bible, and I can't do that so I'd better disagree with him
Even if it makes me look like an immoral inhuman person
Well, this is the thing I don't I don't mind answering your question
The only thing I mind is at the end of the day even if we disagree
about what you believe and what I believe at the the end of the day we have our own belief system so even if you if you don't believe what I believe
I'm still going to respect you and I'll still be respectful to you
And I only mention the cussing because what happened to good grammar. That's why I mentioned it. That's the only reason I even said that.
I respect your right to hold whatever view you want or you hold
But I don't respect your views
I will never respect the views of people who can't come out and simply say that slavery is immoral
who can't come out and say that women and men should be treated equally who can't come out and say that hey if you're
Gay it's not an abomination, and you don't deserve to be put to death
I'm not going to respect those views just like I don't respect the KKK
Just like I don't respect fascist's
Just like I don't respect sexists just like I don't respect rapists
If something is immoral, I'm not going to respect that view even though you have a right to your opinion
Why are you willing to be immoral instead of acknowledging that your book is immoral
Well... hold up let me get past these people.
But I mean I'm not... you're saying like I'm being immoral - you are - but
I mean like I said with all due respect that's your opinion. Whatever you know whatever you feel
Correct, it's my opinion.
You told us that slavery is OK.
Yeah
That's immoral
It's Don's opinion too, and I bet if I asked for a show of hands on the other side
I get a show hands, but you know what I don't need to do that because that's a self-selected audience full of godless heathens
Who came to watch a show. *Audience Clapping* So why don't we just go to the United Nations Charter that denounces slavery?
Why don't we go to the bulk of modern civilization that has fought against slavery and claimed that it's an abomination
You've got one thing that's an abomination, which you are not willing to denounce
And another thing that's not an abomination, which you are claiming is an abomination. You're not going to lecture me about morals
Oh well It's just my opinion. Well who gives a rat's a** about your opinion.
I mean you obviously don't you're asking for it
Correct
When I give it to you. I'm only saying like this okay
Do I believe that people should still be sacrificing animals as?
You know, repentance for their sins, no, but did it happen?
Yes. Are we still under that? No.
Should we have ever done it?
Should people have ever did things they've done in history before? No.... but
Has slavery ever been moral?
See here's the thing. This is where we're going to end and I'm gonna give you the last word.
Because you are now flagrantly dishonest because nobody brought up this idea of sacrificing animals
But your position is that people shouldn't do that anymore
But at one point in time they did and my question was
Should they have done it then and your answer was not, yes they should have, or, no they shouldn't
It was hey people did stuff back then. Either answer the question that is presented to you or go away
Should they have sacrificed animals back then?
I guess he chose go away. It's 6:02.
Let's end. :)