NOW IF YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING
OUR COVERAGE OF THE WAR IN
UKRAINE THE PAST SIX WEEKS, YOU
PROBABLY HEARD ME MENTION
SOMETHING CALLED THE AZOV
BATTALION.
IT IS ONE OF THE MORE
COMPLICATED AND CONTROVERSIAL
PARTS OF UKRAINE'S DEFENSE
AGAINST THE RUSSIAN INVASION.
THE AZOV BATTALION BEGAN AS A
FAR-RIGHT, HOCHUL NATURALIST
MELISSA THAT HAS SPRUNG UP TO
FIGHT RUSSIA'S INVASION OF
CRIMEA IN 2014.
THE GROUP WAS KNOWN TO HAVE
TIES TO NEO-NAZI MOVEMENTS, AND
ITS LEADER WAS QUOTED ONCE AS
SAYING UKRAINE'S PURPOSE WAS TO,
QUOTE, LEAVE THE RIGHT WISHES OF THE WORLD IN A FINAL CRUSADE
OF THE WORLD IN A FINAL CRUSADE
AGAINST SEMI LED THEM INFERIOR
RACES.
THEY WERE NOT TO DISPLAY NAZI
ICONOGRAPHY UNDER UNIFORMS.
TODAY, THAT SAME GROUP HAS
10,000 FORCES FIGHTING RUSSIA
ACROSS UKRAINE.
IT HAS BEEN INCORPORATED NOW
INTO THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY AND
IS LEADING THE FIGHT AGAINST
RUSSIA IN PLACES LIKE MARIUPOL,
ON BEHALF OF A PLURALISTIC,
LIBERAL UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT,
LED BY A JEWISH PRESIDENT
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY.
LIKE I SAID, THIS IS
COMPLICATED.
THE AZOV BATTALION OF TODAY
DENIES BEING MOTIVATED BY ANY
NEO-NAZI OR FASCIST IDEOLOGY.
THEY SAY THEY'VE GROWN TO
INCLUDE FIGHTERS OF ALL
DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES, ALTHOUGH
THEY ADMIT THEY STILL COUNT
NEO-NAZIS AMONG THE RANKS.
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR
PUTIN HAS TRIED TO USED AS A
BATTALION TIES TO THE FAR-RIGHT
AS JUSTIFICATION FOR ITS
CAMPAIGN OF SO-CALLED
DENAZIFICATION IN UKRAINE.
WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT A
LITTLE LATER ON IN THE SHOW.
IT IS NO SECRET THAT WAR MAKES
FOR A STRANGE BED FELLOWS.
IRONICALLY THE MOST FAMOUS
EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE ALLIANCE
BETWEEN WESTERN COUNTRIES AND
THE SOVIET UNION IN WORLD WAR
II.
BETWEEN 1939 AND 1941, ALMOST
TWO YEARS, THE SOVIET UNION AND
GERMANY NAZI GERMANY WHERE
ALLIES.
THAT WORKED UNTIL HITLER
DECIDED TO INVADE THE SOVIET
UNION IN 1941.
THE QUESTION OF HOW TO THINK
ABOUT THE AZOV BATTALION LOOMS
LARGE TODAY.
THE WASHINGTON POST ALONG WITH
THREE OTHER POSTS REPORTERS,
PUBLISHED A NEW DETAILED REPORT
TODAY EXAMINING THE AZOV
BATTALION ROLE IN THE CURRENT
FIGHT AGAINST RUSSIA.
HE INTERVIEWED FIGHTERS FROM
ACROSS THE BATTALION AS THEY
SHOT A PICTURES OF VLADIMIR
PUTIN FOR TARGET PRACTICE.
SOME OF ITS SOLDIERS WITH WHOM
HE SPOKE HAD NEO-NAZI TATTOOS
AND ESPOUSED FAR-RIGHT
IDEOLOGIES.
THE LEADER OF THE AZOV
BATTALION TOLD WASHINGTON POST
THAT THEIR FORCE NOW INCLUDES
RIOTERS AND OTHER LIBERALS,
EVEN MEMBERS OF THE EXTREME
LEFT AND ANTI FASCISTS.
QUOTE, WE ARE AT WAR FOR THE
VERY EXISTENCE OF UKRAINE AT
THE MOMENT.
IN THE PAST MONTH, I HAD NEVER
ASKED THE PERSON THAT CAME TO
JOIN US ABOUT HIS POLITICAL
VIEWS.
TODAY, UKRAINIANS ONLY HAVE ONE
OPTION A POLITICAL ORIENTATION,
FOR OREGON'S UKRAINE, AND
QUOTE.
HE TOLD THE WASHINGTON POST
THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO WEED
OUT A NEO-NAZI TATTOOS AND
OTHER SYMBOLS AMONG AS A
FIGHTERS BUT IN THE CURRENT WAR,
HE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE ANY
SOLDIER BECAUSE OF POLITICAL
IDEOLOGY, LEFT OR RIGHT.
QUOTE, EVERY SOLDIER THAT
FIGHTS FOR UKRAINE IS A VALUE
NOW.
HE SAYS A VALUE TO THE WESTERN
WORLD BECAUSE IF UKRAINE WILL
BREAK, THEN THE NEXT IN TROUBLE
WILL BE THE COLLECTIVE VOICE.
AND QUOTE.
JOINING US NOW IS THE
WASHINGTON POST CORRESPONDENT
WHO IS THE LEAD BYLINE ON THAT
REPORT.
HE JUST LEFT UKRAINE AFTER A
LONG TIME HERE.
GOOD TO SEE.
WHAT DID THE SOLDIERS YOU TALK
TO THINK ABOUT THE AZOV
BATTALION THAT HISTORY?
>> THEM COULD THEY BE HERE WITH
YOU, ALI.
THE SOLDIERS WE SPOKE TO WERE
PRETTY MUCH DISMISSIVE OF THE
AZOV NEO-NAZI LINKS.
IN FACT, EVERYONE WE SPOKE TO
BELIEVE THIS IS ALL PART OF
RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA.
MANY OF THEM THAT JOINED THE
FORCES HAD FRIENDS IS ALREADY
DOING THE FORCES, AND THEY DID
NOT PERCEIVE THEIR FRIENDS AS
NAZIS OR OTHER FORM OF
EXTREMISM.
>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF VLADIMIR
PUTIN'S USE OF THE AZOV
BATTALION AS JUSTIFICATION FOR
THE IDEA THAT UKRAINE NEEDS THE
NAZIFICATION?
>> THE THINKING ON THE AZOV IS
OUTDATED FROM WHAT WE FOUND.
IT IS BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED
EIGHT YEARS AGO, AND ALL OF THE
STATEMENTS THAT YOU MENTIONED
EARLIER THAT CAME UP PUBLICLY.
BUT SINCE THEN, THERE HAS BEEN
A BIG EFFORT BY THE UKRAINIANS
TO ALTER THE AZOV.
WHEN THEY JOINED THE UKRAINE
NATIONAL GUARD, THERE WERE
STRONG EFFORTS TO WEED OUT
EXTREMIST WITHIN THE RANKS.
ALSO, WE ARE LOOKING AT A MUCH
DIFFERENT SITUATION HERE IN
THIS WAR.
IT IS LESS ABOUT POLITICAL
IDEOLOGY AND MORE ABOUT
PATRIOTISM AND MORAL OUTRAGE OF
WHAT THE RUSSIANS ARE DOING IN
UKRAINE, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL
THE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES THAT WE
HAVE BEEN SEEING, AND ALL OF
THE BRUTAL POTENTIAL WAR CRIMES
THAT HAVE BEEN UNFOLDING BY
RUSSIA.
IT IS AN OUTDATED VIEW BUT IT
IS ALSO --
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT
WHAT'S VLADIMIR PUTIN IS SAYING
IS SOMETHING ABOUT A VERY SMALL
AMOUNT OF UKRAINIAN SOCIETY.
EVEN THE ANALYST WE SPOKE TO
THE FIGHTER SPOKE TO THE LEADER
SAY, YES THERE ARE STILL
EXTREMIST MONTHS ARE RANKS, BUT
IT IS A SMALL PORTION.
ONE CLEAR INDICATION OF HOW
SMALL THE FAR-RIGHT MOVEMENTS
ARE IN UKRAINE IS THAT THE
POLITICAL ARM OF AS OFF RAN FOR
ELECTIONS A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
THEY ONLY GENERATED ABOUT 2% OF
THE ENTIRE VOTE, EVEN WHEN THEY
COMBINED WITH OTHER FAR-RIGHT
PARTIES.
THE BATTALION IS EXTREMELY
POPULAR BECAUSE THEY ARE
FIGHTING IN MARIUPOL AND ARE
DEFENDING UKRAINE.
BUT IN TERMS OF THE POLITICAL
ARM, IT DOES NOT GENERATE THAT
MUCH POPULARITY.
>> OBVIOUSLY, MEN OF FIGHTING
AGE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE
THE COUNTRY.
THE PRESIDENT HAS INVITED
PEOPLE BACK.
YOU AND I HAVE BOTH RUN INTO
PEOPLE IN KYIV OR LVIV WHO HAD
COME FROM OTHER COUNTRIES TO
FIGHT.
THEY MAYBE HAVE UKRAINIAN
HERITAGE, SOME MORE CANADIANS
OR AMERICANS WHY WOULD ANYONE
JOIN THE AZOV BATTALION AS
OPPOSED TO THE OPEN INVITATION
TO JOIN THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY
OR NATIONAL GUARD?
>> THAT IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
A CLEAR ANSWER IS THAT THIS IS
ONE OF THE MOST AT THE FIGHTING
UNITS IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW.
THEY ARE CONSIDERED TO MANY
UKRAINIANS HEROES ESPECIALLY
BECAUSE OF WHAT THEIR SPECIAL
FORCES UNITS ARE DOING A
MARIUPOL.
THEY HAVE SINGLE-HANDEDLY BEEN
ABLE TO HOLD DOWN AND STOP THE
RUSSIANS HAVE TAKEN ENTIRE
CONTROL THE CITY.
THERE IS A LOT OF GOODWILL FROM
THAT.
I THINK THE SECOND THING IS,
LOOK, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID
AND PREVENT ANY EXTREMISTS
COMING FROM EUROPE WITH UNITED
STATES TO JOIN THE AZOV.
ANALYSTS WHO SPOKE TO SAID THAT
THEY ARE STILL COMING, BUT IS A
SMALL NUMBER.
THAT IS PERHAPS ONE REASON.
THE DANGER OF COURSE, WHICH WE
WON'T KNOW NOW, PERHAPS WE WILL
LEARN A FEW MONTHS OR YEARS, IS
WHETHER OR NOT SOME EXTREMISTS
DID JOIN THE AS OFF AND WILL
RETURN TO THEIR HOME COUNTRIES
AND POSSIBLY CREATE VIOLENCE OR
ANTI GOVERNMENT ACTIVITY.
WE DO NOT KNOW THAT FOR SURE.
FOR NOW, THE BIG CONCERN