[bright music]
[lips smooching]
- Hi, I'm Rina Sawayama.
I am a singer-songwriter, recording artist,
producer, and actor.
And I'm here with guitarist, singer-songwriter,
legend, producer, Nile Rodgers.
And this is "Vogue Visionaries."
- In this session, we'll be talking
about our different journeys within the music industry,
finding your voice as a musician,
and advice on how you can turn your passion for music
into a career.
And we'll also be revealing
some of the life lessons we've learned along the way.
[bright music]
- So Nile, when did you first pick up an instrument?
- When dinosaurs walked the earth.
[Rina laughing]
I was six years old.
My first instrument was the flute.
- And what did playing the flute
and picking up a musical instrument spark in you?
- I loved it right away.
Going home to practice gave me a sense
of I belong to something, which is strange.
- When and how did music become your career?
- I got my job at "Sesame Street"
at around 18 to 18 and a half years old,
and, ah, that changed my life.
- Wow.
- Because "Sesame Street" led to my next job
which was being in the House Band
at the Apollo Theater in New York.
This is a fabulous institution where you get to play
with every artist that's hot at the time.
So I went from "Sesame Street" to the Apollo Theater
to forming my own band within a couple of years.
And my first recording was a number one record.
- Oh, for God sake. [laughs]
That's insane.
[Nile laughing]
That is so cool.
- Rina, I mean, I think you're amazing.
When did you first know that you wanted to be a musician?
- When I was like five.
Well, actually, maybe I was seven years old or something.
I would sing this song,
this Japanese song called, "Automatic"
by a artist called Utada Hikaru in front of the TV
and I sang it to my parents.
And they were like, "Ah I guess this is what she wants
to do." I wanted to go to music school
but I'd given up every instrument, including the flute.
I didn't have the grades to get into music school,
you know, like the musical grades to get in.
So I studied real hard,
got into Cambridge University, studied politics there.
But after going to Cambridge,
I knew that music was what I needed to do.
I didn't know how to produce,
but I was I was going on YouTube.
So I learned the basics through there.
It's been a very unconventional pop journey for me.
So when you were younger,
how did you find new artists and new musicians?
- You had to be in close proximity to the music
that was being played.
So either you heard something on the radio
or you were at someone's home
who had a record player and they were playing some new stuff
and you'd sit down.
It was like a spiritual experience,
and you'd contemplate what you were hearing.
And we were all sort of cool and hip
and be like, "Yeah man, you know, oh, wow."
Now, with the internet and especially YouTube,
now you could just-
- Search.
So you've collaborated with the most incredible artists,
Bowie, Daft Punk, Madonna.
What's been some of the most, like the standout memories
that you've had?
- So I believe that almost every songwriter,
every composer, has the same formula
or a very similar formula.
We take a nonfictional event, right?
Something that's a real life event, and you focus on it.
Like what happened with Diana Ross,
we're working on this album.
And one night I go into a queer club
that was really popular.
I go to the bathroom, on either side of me,
there are at least four
or five deep Diana Ross impersonators.
Anyway, a light bulb went off
and I thought to myself, "I'm coming out."
What if Diana Ross walks out on stage
and goes, 'I'm coming out.' [laughs]
- So good.
- With Bowie, I walk into this nightclub
and the only person who looks
like they don't belong is David Bowie
because he's now into the whole meterosexual look.
And he's sitting completely by himself
at the back of a bar sipping on orange juice.
- Wow.
- And I walk in and I'm with Billy Idol,
and Billy goes, "Bloody hell, that's [beep] David Bowie."
[Rina laughing]
And as he said, Bowie, he barfed, he went... [retches]
- No.
- Yeah, totally.
So by the time I get to David,
he and I are completely engrossed in heavy conversation.
I said, "Wow, man, you live
and you work with my best friends."
And he says, "Who?"
I says, "You know, the young Americans."
David and I we didn't talk about any pop music at all.
We only talked about jazz.
And I found out David's knowledge and interest of jazz,
especially avant-garde jazz, was incredible.
He was so fascinated by my knowledge of jazz,
and I was equally fascinated
that he must have taken down my number,
but I don't remember him ever doing that,
because he kept calling my house.
So when David walked into my bedroom,
he came in and he was playing a sort of folk song.
And he says, "Nah, darling, I think this song is a hit."
And he starts playing this thing
that's very folky sounding.
[Nile imitating guitar]
I'm like going, "Dave, I come from dance music,
please let's make sure people hit the dance floor
when we come out with this song."
So, because I knew he was aware of the jazz vernacular,
I said, "Hey, David, do you mind
if I do an arrangement on this song?"
And he says, "Certainly."
And I took the folk song and completely rewrote it.
If you go on YouTube,
you will hear that original thing that we did.
- No way. - [Nile] I swear to you.
- Oh, okay, I'm definitely watching that.
- I swear to you.
So you are on such a roll right now,
like, I don't even know how to ask you this question,
but who do you most wanna work with?
- Artists and producers and writers who just know so much.
I just wanna just even just drink a tiny bit
from their fountain.
You know, I just wanna know how they do it,
just learn from their process.
I mean, I grew up listening to...
It was Pharrell and Timberland,
that was the only people that mattered, right?
The Neptunes and Timberland.
So growing up, listening to Pharrell
and seeing how his career progressed,
I've already worked with someone who I admired
and that's Elton.
- Right, wow.
- Oh God, don't get me started,
it's just too crazy. [Nile laughing]
One of my all time idols is Lady Gaga
and I was able to do a remix on her record
and we met and it was fantastic.
I think she's wonderful.
[bright music]
- So I'm really curious,
how do you connect with your audience online
and how do you actually grow that audience?
- Last year during lockdown
was when my first album came out
and I would do these live streams on YouTube.
I got a gaming PC, rigged it, put a DSLR there,
got a green screen and did all the ticket tape and all that.
And that was really fun actually.
And we'd do it around certain releases.
It's such a great way to connect with all audience
because you're getting instant comments
and instant requests, "Can you do this?
Can you do that?
Can you say hi to this person?"
And you can literally make someone's day
or month just by shouting them out.
And I love that.
And I think that, you know, when you start doing shows
and stuff, so many of it, so much of it
is like you can't really do a lot of free stuff
but to be able to do things for free on YouTube is awesome.
- I can't wait to work with you so you can show me all this.
- Oh my gosh.
What's something that you wish, a tool that you wish
was available to you when you were promoting music?
- If things were different, I'm not sure I'd be
in the same place and I'd sort of spiritually
be grounded the same way that I am.
So I know that you produce a lot of your own music.
How did you get started and what tools do you use?
- My passion for production
is kind of like I see myself as when I'm making an album,
I feel like I'm the director of the movie.
I'm in every single session
of whether it's writing or production.
And I mix as well with the mixing engineer.
And even though I hate touching the mouse
and I don't do it, I know what to say.
I know what things mean, like gates and filters.
Like I know what I want.
And like, you know, I want less attack on that kick.
So much of it was YouTube, it was all free.
All that thing was free.
And there's so many channels that are dedicated
to recreating certain songs
and they'll break it down on production,
and it's so useful.
- What advice would you give
to new musicians who are trying to make it
in the industry today?
- You know, I really feel that things started going well
for me when I really just stopped looking
at what other people were doing.
I would say just what is it that makes you you.
Really keep that close and then get technical,
and don't get arrogant.
In terms of growing and following, it's a daily practice
but you have to dedicate the time to it,
just value the fans that listen to you from the beginning,
talk to them and, you know, create a world.
I just wanna say thank you.
My second tour of the year.
Thank you so much for your hard work,
and yes, I love you guys.
Thank you.
[speaking foreign language]
So Nile, you've had an insane career,
written so many incredible hits
and worked on so many amazing albums.
What's your secret?
- Almost every artist I've ever worked with
was a result of a chance meeting.
And there's something that it's just there.
There's a vibe and you wanna see what would happen
if we vibe together.
And honestly, it's been that simple.
Daft Punk, let me give you a good example,
so when Daft Punk released their first album
they had a song on it called "Da Funk."
I go down to the listening party,
don't know who the hell Daft Punk is,
they pull me aside 'cause they know me,
and they say that, "We quietly dedicate this album
to your partner, Bernard Edwards."
Who had just passed away only a few years prior to that.
You could feel the vibe.
There's so much love between us
and I never met them before that day.
And we knew that we would work together.
We didn't know that it would take so long.
So when we finally worked together,
that was the song that wound up becoming "Get lucky."
- [Rina] Wow.
- And check this out, so you talked
about Pharrell earlier, check this out.
So now Pharrell goes over to Paris
and just happens to go visit them.
And they said to Pharrell, "Hey, what are you working on?"
He says, "Well, I'm working
on this sort of Nile Rogers kind of stuff."
They look at each other, smile,
and they said, "Really? Check this out."
- Wow, and so he did the top line.
- The way that I make Chic records
is that I play one guitar part,
then I play another guitar part to accentuate
the part of the groove that's the main groove,
'cause I want it to be solid.
And then I play another single line to go along with it.
So if you listen to "Get Lucky" closely,
you'll hear this thing going...
[Nile imitating guitar]
And that's,
♪ We're up all night to get lucky ♪
- [Rina] Yeah, yep.
- But Pharrell had to hear that in order to write that.
- So cool.
I love it. [Nile laughing]
So you still write charts?
- Of course.
- Wow.
[bright music]
- So what's been the most valuable lesson
that you've learned in your career?
- To not be a music snob.
Any song, and I mean any song
in the top 40 is a great composition
because it speaks to the souls of a million strangers.
As an artist, that was the greatest lesson I ever got.
I wanted to speak to the souls of a million strangers.
Now, I wanna speak to the souls of a billion strangers.
[Rina laughing]
- You know what, there's nothing like a dance record
to unite people and unite strangers.
And that's something I'm definitely learning, I think.
Dance music or music that makes people dance
doesn't have to necessarily
be dance music. - Right.
- But pop records
that can make, yeah, a million strangers dance
or make a million strangers feel good, that is magic.
But there's a formula to it, there's a different formula
for every track and that's what's fascinating to me.
- Okay, so I'm gonna ask you the same question.
What's the most valuable lesson that you've learned?
- It's all about the music.
That's the big lesson.
I know it sounds stupid.
It's the music industry.
It's what we do, is music,
but often you can get caught up, especially in pop,
especially with pop girls, with the way you look.
It's just about the music.
That's just...
Write a good song first and let's see where that goes.
- We learn music because music is governed
by mathematical principles and formulas that exist.
And whenever we go outside those boundaries,
we just go a little bit outside those boundaries.
But in fact, they can all be defined, all of them.
So we're never original, never original.
- See that is such a good advice for young musicians.
It's about authenticity, not originality.
- Correct.
- Right?
Let's just make great music.
Yeah, once I stopped trying to be original,
like everything's so much easier.
[Nile and Rina laughing]
Nile, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much for speaking
with me in this session.
I've learned so much.
- I have to say the exact same thing about you.
All my life, I've been lucky enough
to meet really interesting, fantastic people.
And, bam
- Thank you.
- You just did it
for me again. - Thank you.
Aww, bless you. [Nile laughing]
[bright music]