Debbie, Are you ready?
You have the courtroom cleared.
All right. All right, Miss Juwani,
there you are. All right,
you are here with us on five new charges.
And let's see. Do we have
defense counsel? All I see is a.
I can see you. You can? Yes.
What is going on with this
system today? All right, teams.
It works great through the week.
On Saturdays, it gives me problems.
All right, I'm going to
go out to come back in,
see if that fixes the issue like
it did for the Jill screen,
and then we'll get started.
Judge, you're muted.
There we go.
You are here then on
five new charges.
Karima Razan Jawani, correct?
Yes. O K5, new charges
that are as follows.
Murder, which is a felony.
Cruelty to children in the first degree,
which is a felony.
Reckless abandonment.
Abandonment. Dumping,
biomedical hazard waste,
commercial dumping.
And aggravated
assaults, which is a felony
because of the nature of your charges.
Well, let me address council.
I have looked at this and
she is charged with homicide.
Murder under 1651. The warrant
indicates that it is attempted
is an attempted homicide. So.
Technically an attempt murder your
honor is bondable under 17-6-1.
Since the alleged victim is still alive.
I have a tough time believing
that Miss Penn and and the state
intended for it to be an actual
murder charge and rather and miss.
I'm sure Miss Penn will clear this up that
that it's an attempted murder charge.
That is that is correct Judge
I I assume that. But the OC DA16 four.
One. The attempts section had just
been left off the warrant
and it should have included both, but
wanted to make sure that I had the
correct information in front of me.
All right, all right.
And I believe I told you Reckless abandoned
that your third charge is a felony
and the legal
dumping that is also a felony.
What's the state's recommendation?
To the
schedule an attempted crime is half of
what a completed crime and in this case,
since the completed crime will be bondable
only the forced period court judge,
I would ask that the defendant be
held without bond on that. At this time,
you know as the courts aware the
case has just happened I anticipate.
That it will be assigned to a judge
early next week. The defendant has
counsel and he can file the
appropriate motions including
one for bond to get this in
front of a Superior Court judge.
But given the serious
nature of the case,
you know it is a 30 year maximum
the fact that this defendant.
As connections in other states,
including Texas and Ohio,
I think that there is a risk of flight.
There are also four individuals who
are witnesses or potential witnesses,
all of whom are family members of
this defendant living in the home.
So I'm concerned about the risk of
intimidation and would ask that she
be held without bond at this time.
All right, counsel for the
Your honor, she has no
criminal history of any kind.
She's 40 years old.
She is a homeowner in Forsyth County.
She has a husband and three minor children.
She's a stay at home mom of those three kids.
And while I understand why the
state brought these charges,
this woman, if the if the court is
aware of the facts in this case,
has some understanding of the
facts this woman suffered from.
Postpartum depression and
postpartum psychosis.
And there's going to be,
and there are extensive medical
records to demonstrate that and
and ultimately expert testimony
to prove that This is a condition,
quite frankly,
that society and the courts
retreat as a mental health issue,
not as a criminal prosecution.
But I understand the state has
discretion and and has brought
criminal charges but this woman has no
criminal history on her stop light risk.
She's never committed a crime before.
She's a homeowner in the county.
She's married with three kids.
She went through what millions of
women in this country go through which
is postpartum depression and then
ultimately unfortunately postpartum
psychosis and you know the state's
evidence is based on largely DNAI
mean they're they're essentially
proving that she dumped A infant child in in.
Someone else's backyard and abandon it.
And I and I understand that serious,
but these are bondable charges
and certainly she's not a risk of
intimidating anyone that that would
affect the state's ability to prove its case.
She just wants to be at home
with her husband and three kids.
Her husband.
She has other significant ties
to the community.
Her extended family all lives
in Gwent Forsyth County.
They have multiple businesses.
Quite frankly, she has no independent.
Economic needs for family who's retained me.
They own multiple successful restaurants
in both counties and and she would
not be a flight risk or a risk of
committing any felony of any kind.
She's got no criminal history of any kind.
So a a a substantial bond of
$100,000 along with the G,
PS:,
ankle monitor and and house
arrest would ensure all of the
necessary conditions that I also.
Requires and and quite frankly you know,
given the evidence of her
mental health state at the time,
I don't see how she could possibly be at
risk of intimidating anyone or a flight risk.
So we would ask for bond.
Thank you Ron Judge
may I respond.
I would take issue with some of Mr.
App's assertion as to what the evidence is.
Currently. At this time,
there is no evidence to suggest that the
defendant was suffering from any kind
of psychosis and postpartum depression.
By its very name, its definition
implies that it takes place after.
This woman actually delivered this
baby and dumped it on the side of
the road within 12 to 30 hours.
I anticipate the evidence will show after
this child was born. Yes,
we do rely on DNA evidence to prove
that in fact this dependent is the.
Mother of this baby.
But we have corroborated evidence as well,
including the defendant's own statements
that were made during the interview.
In this case,
it was not someone's backyard.
It was on the side of the road.
There was no indication that this
child was left for anyone else to find,
and by the defendant's own statement
during the interview, this
was a child that she tried to kill.
That was certainly her intent.
I think all of this can and will
be developed at a future
date that we're both Mr.
Act and I will be back in court on this.
We'll be having conversations about it,
but given the serious nature of
these charges, the fact that this
defendant does have resources.
You know, as Mr.
Abt has indicated that the
family is of some means,
they've been able to retain counsel.
There is family, both hers and her husbands,
as I've been told, who live in Texas.
There is a family member in Ohio that
certainly you know she has somewhere
else to go and someone else who can fund
that. And given what this
case is at this time, again,
I think there is a risk of white
and the fact that her husband, her
motherinlaw and at least
two of her children who live in
the home or witnesses in this case
or very well could be and she's
going to go right back there that
there is a risk of intimidation.
So I would ask that she be
held without bond at this time.
Josh, can you still hear
us? Yeah, I'm just thinking,
all right,
I
do have some grave concerns about the
defendant leaving the jurisdiction of
the court between the jurisdiction and
the situation.
Being of a familial nature,
having even even if it's not in
the way that we typically think
of as intimidating witnesses
influencing those witnesses that she
would be returning home to if I were
to set bond in this case also,
it's very concerning that this happened,
what, four years ago? Four years ago.
So I At this point in time,
I am going to find that the
defendant poses a significant risk
in fleeing and that the defendant is
a significant risk of intimidating
witnesses or otherwise obstructing
the administration of justice.
So I will the deny the bond
at this point in time.
Of course there is an opportunity to
be heard at the committal hearing if
the appropriate motions are filed.
And then of course once this is
in superior report and assigned
to a Superior Court judge,
then there are other options for
the defendant to request bond
at that point in time.
So at this point the defendants
bond would be denied.
Do you have any questions for me ma'am?
Miss Geroni, we'll come see you.
You don't don't say anything, please.
This be on that June 13th
preliminary hearing calendar.
It will. OK. Yes, it will.
Middle hearing will be
June 13th at 1:30 PM.
If you'll contact our office and
make sure that that's scheduled.
We scheduled those because
we do those virtually.
So you'll just need to contact Connie
Griffith in my office and we'll get
you a time slot on that calendar.
I'm actually on leave during that time,
but I'll have someone,
another attorney from my office
to enter or we'll send a conflict.
OK. All right. Well, that's fine. I mean, if
you are going to be on leave during
that point in time, then it would
be two weeks later is our next
committal hearing. If you want
to do it personally, you just
need to let Connie know, OK.
All right. Anything further from
the state or defense? Not from
the state judge.
All right. From the defense. All
right. Good to see you, Sir.
Thank you. All right.
Port will be adjourned.