>> STEPHEN: MY FIRST GUESTS TONIGHT ARE BOTH VETERAN
POLITICAL REPORTERS WHO HOST "THE CIRCUS" ON SHOWTIME.
PLEASE WELCOME JOHN HEILEMANN AND ALEX WAGNER!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: ALEX, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
>> GOOD TO BE HERE, SIR.
>> Stephen: GOOD TO SEE YOU, JOHN.
LET'S GET RIGHT TO THE HEAT OF THE MEAT.
( LAUGHTER ) THERE'S SOME NEWS -- WE'VE GOT
TO, WE'VE GOT TO.
THERE IS NEWS IT'S POSSIBLE A LOT OF THE MEMBERS OF THE
AUDIENCE DON'T KNOW ABOUT BECAUSE IT HAPPENED MOMENTS
BEFORE WE CAME OUT TO RECORD THE SHOW.
TELL AUDIENCE WHAT HAPPENED WITH PAUL MANAFORT.
>> PAUL MANAFORT MADE A PLEA DEAL WITH ROBERT MUELLER.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> Jon: FOR REAL?
>> Stephen: YEAH!
THAT MIGHT BE THE BIGGEST OVATION PAUL MANAFORT EVER GETS
RIGHT THERE.
>> TRUE.
>> Stephen: SO HE'S FLIPPING LIKE A CHEESE OMELET.
>> HE MAY BE PLEADING GUILTY, HE MAY BE COP AGO BIGGER DEAL.
WE'RE NOT SURE OF THE SPECIFICS, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THE TRIAL THAT
IS SUPPOSED TO START NOW IS NOT GOING TO START.
>> Stephen: HOLD ON.
HE'S PLEADING GUILTY OR MAKING A DEAL?
WE DON'T KNOW?
>> WE DON'T KNOW.
HE'S MAKING A PLEA DEAL SO HE'S GOING TO COP A PLEA TO
SOMETHING AND THE TRIAL WON'T HAPPEN BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO
AGREE TO SOME SET OF CHARGES.
>> Stephen: WHY WOULD HE DO THAT UNLESS HE'S GETTING
SOMETHING BECAUSE HE COULD ALWAYS FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT.
>> WELL, THE COST OF THE TRIAL IS ONEROUS, AND HE IS NOT DOING
THAT WELL THESE DAYS, AND SO, THERE IS SOME SPECULATION HE
DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE THE GO TO TRIAL, SO HE'S PLEADING GUILTY,
THAT'S THE COOPERATION, OR HE'S TURNED, HE'S FLIPPED.
>> Stephen: OH, OKAY.
THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY IN EXCHANGE FOR LIMITED PRISON
TIME HE AGREES TO NEVER WEAR THE OSTRICH JACKETS AGAIN IN
AMERICA.
WHICH WOULD BE A BIG PLUS FOR AMERICANS.
( LAUGHTER ) YOU THINK ABOUT, IF YOU'RE
DONALD TRUMP AND YOU'VE SEEN YOUR CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN GET
CONVICTED ON EIGHT COUNTS, YOUR FORMER FIXER AGREE TO COOPERATE,
YOUR FORMER ACCOUNTANT COOPERATE, DAVID PECKER --
>> WHOSE PECKER DOESN'T KEEP THEIR SEXUAL SECRETS?
>> Stephen: MUM'S THE WORD.
HE WENT RIGHT TO THE HEAT OF THE MEAT
( LAUGHTER ) >> SORRY.
THAT WAS A BAD STRETCH.
I WOULD SAY THE POSSIBILITY PAUL MANAFORT IS COOPERATING WITH BOB
MUELLER IS GOING TO MAKE DONALD TRUMP A LITTLE BIT TESTY.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: WELL, HE'S BEEN
TESTY -- IT'S BEEN A BAD MONTH FOR HIM.
>> IT'S NOT BEEN A GREAT MONTH.
>> Stephen: ONE THING AFTER THEOUT, WHETHER THE BOOK,
REVELATIONS, OP-ED, THE GUILTY PLEAS OR VERDICTS.
WITH THIS HURRICANE APPROACHING THE EAST COAST RIGHT NOW, BY THE
TIME WE'RE ON THE AIR, IT MAY HAVE MADE LANDFALL.
I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHERE FLORENCE IS.
NATURAL DISASTERS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PRESIDENT TO
BE THE COMFORTER, THE LEADER AND THE PERSON WHO KNOWS WHAT'S
GOING ON AND WILL FIX THE SITUATION.
IT COULD BE GOOD FOR SOMEONE TO POLITICALLY ESTABLISH THEMSELVES
IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
HOW HAS HE HANDLED THIS WEEK SO FAR?
>> INSTEAD OF PUTTING HIS HANDS ON THE CAPTAIN'S WHEEL, HE
DECIDED TO PICK A FIGHT WITH THE FAMILIES OF 3,000 DEAD PUERTO
RICANS.
WHICH IS NOT WHAT THE MOMENT CALLED FOR.
IT IS A SHOCKING POLITICAL STRATEGY.
STRATEGY IS OFF MYSTIC, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY
THINKING BEHIND THIS, BUT HE INSURED EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT
DONALD TRUMP AND NATURAL DISASTER WE'RE ALSO TALKING
ABOUT A BLACK MARK ON HIS ADMINISTRATION WHICH OF COURSE
IS THE KNURLED GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSE TO HURRICANE MARIA.
>> IT'S NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY -- THE NOTION THESE
PEOPLE DIDN'T DIE WAS NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY.
THE SANDY HOOKERS WERE DOING, DUDE, PEOPLE DIED.
>> Stephen: HE SAYS HE ALWAYS PUNCHES BACK, BUT NOW HE'S
TRYING TO PUNCH A HURRICANE BACK.
>> HE'S PUNCHING HIMSELF BACK.
THIS IS NOT HELPING DONALD TRUMP.
>> Stephen: HAS ANYONE DEFENDED HIM?
>> NOT ON THIS SET.
-- NO.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: ANY OF THE PEOPLE
WHO ALWAYS COME TO HIS SIDE EXPLAIN, NO, NO, NO, HE'S
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT OR HE'S GOT A POINT?
>> WELL, DONALD TRUMP IS FURTHERING THIS NARRATIVE THAT
IT'S ABOUT US VERSUS THEM, WHETHER THE US IS AN ISLAND OF
LATINOS -- >> Stephen: AMERICAN CITIZENS.
-- AMERICAN CITIZENS.
>> Stephen: THEY KEEP CALLING IT AN ISOLATED ISLAND,
INACCESSIBLE, ISOLATED ISLAND.
>> RIGHT.
>> Stephen: I THINK DELTA FLIES THERE EVERY TWO HOURS,
EVERY DAY.
( LAUGHTER ) WE KNEW IT WAS AN ISLAND
BEFOREHAND.
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY SAID, OH, OKAY, THE HURRICANE IS COMING,
LET'S SAW OFF THE BRIDGE.
WE KNEW, THERE ARE WAYS TO BE PREPARED.
>> THESE ARE WAYS OF FURTHER DIVIDING US FROM THEM, WHOEVER
THE US AND THEM IS, FOR CASTING DISPERSION ON THE DATA AND THE
FACT-FINDING INFRASTRUCTURE IN THIS COUNTRY, OF SAYING THE
LIBERAL MEDIA IS SOMEHOW BIASED FOR REPORTING THESE NUMBERS AND,
THAT WAY, IF ANYONE IS BENEFITING, IT IS STOKING HIS
BASE AND THE ANGER OF HIS BASE, WHICH I THINK TRUMP CALCULATED
IS SOMETHING GOOD FOR HIM AND HIS PRESIDENCY.
>> I IMAGINE SOMEBODY COMING INTO THE OVAL OFFICE AND SAYING
FLORENCE IS HEADED TOWARD US, GOING TO DO A HUGE AMOUNT OF
DAMAGE AND TRUMP IS CALLING HIS LAWYER SAYING GET HER TO SIGN AN
N.D.A.
>> Stephen: DENY, DENY, DENY.
IT'S DONE.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) YOU GUYS TOOK THE SUMMARY OFF,
RIGHT?
"THE CIRCUS" HASN'T BEEN ON FOR THE SUMMER, RIGHT?
HAVE YOU BEEN SHOOTING THE WHOLE TIME OR IS IT LITERALLY LIKE A
NEW DOCUMENTARY EVERY WEEK?
WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS JUST WHAT HAPPENED?
>> AS NEW DOCUMENTARY EVERY WEEK.
WE SPENT IS SUMMER BITING OUR NAILS, WISHING THE CAMERAS WERE
ROLLING, THEY FINALLY ARE.
>> Stephen: LESS THAN TWO MONTHS AWAY FROM THE MIDTERM
ELECTIONS.
THE SENATE IS STILL A LONG SHOT FOR THE DEMOCRATS.
>> MITCH McCONNELL CALLED IT A KNIFE FIGHT IN AN ALLY WHICH I
GUESS IS BETTER THAN A GARBAGE CAN OR PHONE BOOTH, BUT CLOSER
THAN HE WOULD BE COMFORTABLE.
>> Stephen: IT'S NOT A ZERO CHANCE, BUT I THINK ABOUT A
ONE-THIRD CHANCE FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO TAKE THE SENATE.
BUT THE HOUSE LOOKS MORE LIKELY.
IF THE DEMOCRATS DO TAKE THE HOUSE, WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS
NEXT?
WHAT IS THE FIRST THING THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO DO?
>> I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GRAPPLE
INTERNALLY WITH THE I WORD,ISM PENALTY.
>> Stephen: ISN'T IT CRAZY TO TALK ABOUT IMPEACHMENT?
YOU NEED THE MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE BUT YOU NEED 67,
TWO-THIRDS PLUS ONE, IN THE SENATE.
AND YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET THAT.
THERE AREN'T 16 MODERATE REPUBLICANS LEFT.
>> I THINK NUMERICALLY AND ALSO POLITICALLY, IT MIGHT NOT BE
THAT WISE TO BE TALK ABOUT IMPEACHMENT, BUT NONETHELESS THE
CONVERSATION IS WHAT IT IS AND ROBERT MUELLER WILL WRAP UP HIS
INVESTIGATION AND FROM THERE DEMOCRATS WILL HAVE TO FIGURE
OUT A PATH FORWARD.
BUT YOU TALK TO DEMOCRATS AS WE HAVE AND THEY SAY OUR FOCUS IS
HEALTHCARE, POCKETBOOKS, THAT'S WHAT AMERICANS ARE VOTING ON AND
UPSET ABOUT AND THAT'S WHAT YOU WILL SEE MOVEMENT ON
LEGISLATIVELY IF WE TAKE THE HOUSE BACK.
>> Stephen: I THINK THEY SHOULD DON'T ANYTHING ABOUT
IMPEACHMENT.
I DON'T THINK IMPEACHING DONALD TRUMP WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE
NATION.
HE COULD ALWAYS SAY HE WAS ROBBED OR --
>> HE WILL, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.
>> Stephen: -- AND AN ELECTION IS THE PROPER WAY TO DO IT, NOT
THESE SORT OF EXTRAORDINARY CONSTITUTIONAL MEASURES, BUT
JUST ORDINARY VOTING IS THE WAY THE DO IT.
>> THIS IS PART OF THE THING THAT'S HARD TO IMAGINE.
WE HAVE A HARD TIME IMAGINING THE WORLD WHERE THE ELECTION HAS
HAPPENED AND DEMOCRATS HAVE TAKEN BACK CROG OF ONE OR BOTH
HOUSES.
THE PRICE OF STICKING WITH TRUMP WILL HAVE BEEN MADE CLEAR.
SECOND WE HAVE A HARD TIME IMAGINING WHAT THE WORLD LOOKS
LIKE AFTER BOB MUELLER DELIVERS HIS REPORT.
YOU WON'T SAY THAT IF BOB MUELLER COMES OUT WITH A
9/11-SIZE REPORT FULL OF CRIMES THAT HE BELIEVES DONALD TRUMP
WOULD BE INDICTED FOR IF HE COULD BE INDICTED IN A COURT OF
LAW, YOU WILL VERY QUICKLY FINDING YOURSELF AMONG OTHER
PEOPLE SAYING, YEAH, MAYBE IMPEACHMENT MAKES SENSE.
DEPENDS ON WHAT'S IN THE REPORT.
WE DON'T KNOW.
>> Stephen: IT DOES.
MUELLER IS VERY TIGHT-LIPPED.
ARE THEY GOING TO GET HIM ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE OR IS THIS
GOING TO BE A LARGER FINDING?
WHAT'S THE HUMORS YOU GUYS HEAR?
>> IN THE INTEREST OF COMPLETELY BASELESS SPECULATION.
>> Stephen: MY FAVORITE TYPE OF SPECULATION.
( LAUGHTER ) >> IT APPEARS THAT HE HAS A CASE
TO BE MADE FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE AND COLLUSION, BUT
NOBODY CAN KNOW BECAUSE THE BEAUTY OF ROBERT MUELLER IS HE
HAS MANAGED TO BE A LOCKBOX IN THE LEAKY EST, CRAZIEST,
TALKIEST MOMENT IN AMERICAN POLITICS.
>> Stephen: ONE GUY STILL STANDING BY THE PRESIDENT THROW
THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WANT HIM STANDING AROUND ANYMORE,
EVIDENTLY IS, STEVE BANNON.
I UNDERSTAND YOU INTERVIEWED HIM LAST NIGHT FOR THIS WEEK'S SHOW?
>> TWO AND A HALF OF THE CRAZIEST HOURS OF MY LIFE,
STEPHEN.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
I'VE HAD A CRAZY LIFE.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE A CLIP.
WHAT WAS HE SAYING?
>> STEVE BANNON SAID THE OTHER DAY THE "NEW YORK TIMES"
ANONYMOUS OP-ED AMOUNTED TO A COUP, SO I WANTED TO DOES THAT
MATTER WITH HIM.
>> Stephen: JIM.
THE OP-ED REPS A CONCERN ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S FITNESS
FOR OFFICE, A DECISION NOT TO TRY TO REMOVE HIM BUT INSTEAD TO
TRY TO STAY IN OFFICE WITH HIM AND KEEP HIM FROM DOING SOME OF
THE THINGS THEY FEAR HE WOULD DO IN HIS WORST MOMENTS.
>> HOW IS THAT A COUP?
WHAT THEY HAVE SAID IS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO IMPLEMENT
THE PLANS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
IT'S EXACTLY LIKE MCCLELLAN.
LINCOLN WANTED TO GO TO A HARD WAR AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO
IT.
THEY DIDN'T THINK HE WAS FIT TO DO IT AND --
>> YOU'RE COMPARING TRUMP TO LINK UP?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
HE OUGHT TO DO THE EXACT THING LINCOLN DID, FIRE MCCLELLAN.
>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK HE SAYS STUFF LIKE THAT BECAUSE HE
WANTS BACK IN THE WHITE HOUSE BADLY?
>> OH, YEAH, AND I SPENT A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT
IT.
LINCOLN WROTE THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION AND GAVE THE
GETTYSBURG ADDRESS, AND DONALD TRUMP CAN'T PRONOUNCE THE WORD
"ANONYMOUS."
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( PIANO RIFF )
>> STEPHEN: "THE CIRCUS" RETURNS THIS SUNDAY ON SHOWTIME.
JOHN HEILEMANN AND ALEX WAGNER EVERYBODY!