LAST WEEK JURORS FOUND DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV GUILTY IN 30 OUT OF 30Y
SPHWIEMENTS.
NOW IS THE PENALTY PHASE OF THE TRIAL.
HENRY RIGALI, A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, CAME IN TO TALK
ABOUT THE CASE AND I ASKED HIM HIS REACTION TO THE JURORS'
GUILTY VERDICT ON ALL COUNTS.
>> I CERTAINLY WASN'T SURPRISED.
I DON'T THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT FOLLOW THIS TYPE OF WORK OR
ARE INVOLVED IN IT WERE TERRIBLY SURPRISED.
>> AGAIN, TO THE VIDEO WHICH SEEMED TO PLAY SUCH A PART IN
THIS CASE, I THOUGHT A PARTICULARLY DAMNING
PRESENTATION MADE TO THE JURORS WAS A VIDEO OF THE DEFENDANT,
DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV, IN A CONVENIENCE STORE BUYING MILK.
>> BUYING A GALLON OF MILK.
>> A FEW HOURS AFTER THE BECAMINGS.
PEOPLE HAVE DIED, PEOPLE ARE IN EMERGENCY ROOMS AND IN SURGERY
AT THAT POINT.
YOU KNOW HE'S VERY CALMLY LOOKING, PICKING, SELECTING, IN
NO SENSE HE'S RUSHING AROUND.
EVERYDAY SOMETHING I GOT TO DO.
I THOUGHT ALMOST AS MUCH AS SEEING HIM PUT DOWN THE BACKPACK
AND KIND OF SURVEYING THE CROWNED AND APPARENTLY SEEING
HE'S NEAR FAMILIES, NEAR LITTLE KIDS, TO ACT THAT WAY, THAT MUST
HAVE GOTTEN INTO JURORS' HEADS.
>> I'M SURE THAT IT D ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK YOU NEEDED ANYTHING
MORE BARBARIC OR GRAPHIC AS FAR AS EVIDENCE.
IT WAS JUST A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE, UNSPEAKABLE CRIME.
>> SO NOW, THE SAME JURORS ARE BACK.
THEIR TASK NOW TO DECIDE LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE OR THE DEATH
PENALTY, THE ONLY OPTIONS THEY HAVE.
DOES THE 30 OUT OF 30 POSSIBLE GUILTY VERDICTS, DOES THAT LEAD
YOU IN ANY WAY TO THINK THIS JURY IS LIKELY TO VOTE FOR THE
MAXIMUM PUNISHMENT OF DEATH?
OR IRS IT A MISTAKE TO THINK ALONG THOSE LINES?
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A MISTAKE OR NOT.
I WOULDN'T SPECULATE.
I DON'T THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THE JURY RETURNED GUILTY
VERDICTS ON ALL OF THE COUNTS GIVES US REALLY MUCH OF AN IDEA
AS TO HOW THEY ARE GOING TO HANDLE THE ULTIMATE ISSUE OF
DEATH OR LIFE IMPRISONMENT, PERSONALLY.
AGAIN, THE EVIDENCE WAS OVERWHELMING.
THERE REALLY WASN'T SO MUCH A QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
THIS IS REALLY WHAT THE WHOLE CASE IS ALL ABOUT.
THIS IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
>> IT SEEMS TO BE IN COMING WEEKS AND MONTHS, DEPENDING ON
WHAT THE FINAL DECISION ON PUNISHMENT IS, AND THE APPEALS,
AND THE PROCESS THAT WILL FOLLOW, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A
LOT OF TALK ABOUT PERHAPS DEATH PENALTY VERSUS LIFE IN PRISON.
AND WHAT REALLY IS -- I KNOW YOU HAVE TOLD ME, YOU YOURSELF
BECAUSE OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED THROUGH THE YEARS, WITH
CASES AND WITH APPEALS, YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLICATION OF
THE DEATH PENALTY.
THIS ISSUE IS REALLY GOING TO COME TO TO HEAD FOR A LOT OF
PEOPLE NOW.
>> IT DOES.
I THINK IT WILL.
WHAT WE ARE ALL GOING TO ABSENTEE AS CITIZENS IS THE, IS
THERE A CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AT WORK.
PROSECUTORS PRESENTING AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES TO A
JURY SAYING THIS MAN SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH BECAUSE A, B, AND
C, AND DEFENSE ATTORNEYS TRYING AS HARD AS THEY CAN TO HUMANIZE
THEIR CLIENT, VERY DIFFICULT IN FRONT OF THESE CIRCUMSTANCE BUT
TO PRESENT EVIDENCE TO MINIMIZE THE, YOU KNOW, SCENARIO SO THEY
CAN AVOID THE DEATH PENALTY.
IT DOES, THIS IS AN UNUSUAL CASE, AS WE SPOKE BEFORE.
AT LEAST IN MY OPINION AS A PRACTITIONER.
BECAUSE IT REALLY FRAMES THE DEBATE.
MANY, MANY PEOPLE ARE OPPOSED TO THE DEATH PENALTY FOR A VARIETY
OF REASONS, BUT MANY, BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINTY, THE FALLIBILITY
OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.
IN EXCESS OF 100 INDIVIDUALS HAVE BEEN EXON RAITTED ON DEATH
PENALTY AS GENERALLY AND SADLY AFTER SERVING LNTSY, LENGTHY
PRISON TERMS BECAUSE OF NEW SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
FORENSIC EVIDENCE HAS EXONERATED THEM.
THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE CONVICTED IN FRONT OF JURY
SYSTEMS, EXCELLENT PROSECUTORS, SENIOR DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, SENIOR
JUDGES.
MURDER CASES AREN'T TRIED BY BEGINNERS CURRENTLY.
SO YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE SYSTEM WOULD BE COULD GO WELL
THERE.
AND YET AFTER ALL OF THOSE PROTECTIONS, MORE THAN 100
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EXONERATED BY SUBSEQUENT EVIDENCE.
SO WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THOSE, LIKE MYSELF WHO ARE IN THE
SYSTEM, IS WE HAVE SOME REAL HESITANCY BECAUSE OF THE
FALLIBILITY OF THE IT.
TO REACH SOME QUICK CONCLUSIONS, KNEE JERK REACTIONS TO THE DEATH
PENALTY.
THIS CASE TAKES AWAY THAT FACTOR, THE POSSIBILITY OF
ERROR.
THIS MAN IS CLEARLY GUILTY AS ALL OF US HAVE SEEN, WATCHING
THE EVENING NEWS AND THE CLIPS OF THE CASE AND SO FORTH.
THERE'S OVERWHELMING ESTLED AND THE DEFENSE DOESN'T DISPUTE THE
FACT.
SO THE UNCERTAINTY ELEMENT OF THE ANTIDEATH PENALTY PEOPLE IS
NOT A FACTOR.
SO IT WILL BE A VERY INTERESTING DEBATE NOW TO SEE WHAT'S GOING
TO HAPPEN WITH THE DEATH PENALTY.
>> LET'S TALK A MINUTE.
LET ME SET IT UP BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE TWO VERY STARK
POSSIBILITIES.
LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT PATROL, PROBABLY THE SUPER MAX IN
COLORADO WHICH EVERYTHING I HAVE READ IT'S A BLEAK, AWFUL PLACE
TO SPEND YOUR DAYS.
OR THE DEATH PENALTY.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY, THIS IS WHAT THIS PERSON WANTS, TO BE
A MARTYR FOR THEIR CAUSE.
THE DEATH PENALTY WOULD BE JUST WHAT THEY WANT.
LET'S TAKE THIS YOUNG MAN, LOCK HIM AWAY FOR WHAT COULD BE 40,
50ING 60 YEARS.
WHO KNOWS IF HE WOULD LIVE TO HIS VENTS OR 80s.
REALLY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FOCUS IN ON AND I THINK THERE'S GOING
TO BE TREMENDOUS PUBLIC DISCUSSION AND DEBATE.
>> OH, I AGREE.
I THINK FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, THERE WILL BE TREMENDOUS DEBATE
ABOUT THIS.
AND I DON'T, I'M JUST AS A CITIZEN, I CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE
THE CRYSTAL BALL HERE.
BUT THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF MARTYRDOM, TO WHAT EXTENT THAT
PLAYS A FACTOR, YOU KNOW, AND TO WHAT EXTENT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM SHOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT TYPE OF INTANGIBLE.
WE COULD NOT PUT HIM TO DEATH BECAUSE TO DO SO WOULD MAKE HIM
A MARTYR AND MAKE HAPE HERO AND IN THE MINDS OF THESE WARPED
PEOPLE THAT EVEN THINK OF DOING THESE THINGS.
TO WHAT EXTENT THAT COMES INTO THE ACTUAL DECISION-MAKING IN A
MURDER CASE, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT IT WILL DEFINITELY BE A CASE WITH A LOT OF DEBATE.
>> SO THE FINAL PART OF THE TRIAL, THE PENALTY PHASE,
DECIDING LIFE OR DEATH, THE THOUGHT THAT IS COULD WELL BE
MUCH MORE INVOLVED AND TAKE LOT MORE TIME THAN THE ROUGHLY THREE
TO FOUR WEEKS THAT THE VERDICT PHASE TOOK UP.
WHAT'S YOUR SENSE?
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE TIME.
BUT IT WILL DEFINITELY BE AN INTERESTING PART OF THE CASE.
JUST TO SORT OF FRAME THE STAGE, IF YOU WILL, THE PROSECUTION,
THIS MAN HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY.
NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
AND SO THE PROSECUTION HAS TO GO FIRST ON THIS EVIDENCE.
IT HAS TO CONVINCE A UNANIMOUS JURY, 12 OUT OF 12.
I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE SEVEN WOMEN, FIVE MEN.
FROM, ALL FROM A NEW ENGLAND AREA.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME REGIONAL VALUE SYSTEMS THERE,
MASSACHUSETTS IS A LIBERAL STATE GENERALLY, I THINK, LIBERAL
LEGISLATION.
TO WHAT EXTENT PEOPLE ARE ON THE JURY ARE GOING TO REFLECT THAT
SORT OF VALUE SET, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT THE PROSECUTION IS GOING TO GO FIRST.
THEY ARE GOING TO PRESENT AGGRAVATING EVIDENCE, THINGS
THAT SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHY WE, THE GOVERNMENT, THINK THIS
MAN SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH.
NOW, OBVIOUSLY, THE DEFENSE IS GOING TO BE TRYING TO MITIGATE
AND MINIMIZE A LITTLE BIT.
HE'S A HUMAN BEING.
HE WAS UNDER THE INFLUENCE.
HE'S, YOU KNOW, THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER THING.
THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE DEFENSE MAY INTRODUCE THESE OTHER
ARGUMENTS OF, YOU KNOW, DON'T LET HIM BECOME A MARTYR AND, YOU
KNOW, IT'S MISERABLE TO BE IN SUPER MAX IN COLORADO AND SO
FORTH.
I DON'T KNOW THE EXTENT TO WHICH THOSE POINTS WILL BE BROUGHT UP.
BUT I'M SURE THE DEFENSE WILL BRING IN EXPERTS TO TALK WITH
THE JURY ABOUT THE YOUTH OF THIS MAN.
HE WAS 19 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY OF THAT EXCUSES THE CONDUCT BY ANY
MEANS.
EVERY DAY RIGHT HERE IN HAMPDEN COUNTY PEOPLE WHO ARE 18, 19, 20
YEARS OF AGE ARE BEING SENT TO PRISON FOR LENGTHY PRISON
SENTENCE, NOT WITHSTANDING THEIR YOUTH AND ALL OF THE FALLIBILITY
AND POOR JUDGMENT THAT WE ALL HAD AS YOUTH.
BUT I THINK THAT THE EXPERTS ARE GOING TO WEIGH IN FOR THE
DEFENSE ON THIS.
AND IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT ALL SHAKES OUT.
>> HENRY RIGALI, THANKS FOR COMING IN.
THANKS FOR YOUR PERSPECTIVE, SIR.
>> THANK YOU.
IT'S MY PLEASURE.