(dramatic organ music)
- I'm a pastor.
(dramatic organ music continues)
- So, what about an introduction to start things off?
- My name is Jay. I'm an Episcopal priest.
- I'm Don. Pastor, non-denominational.
- Dominic. Lutheran pastor.
- Paul, youth pastor SPC.
- Paul, wore a whole suit and I was like,
oh, maybe he's overcompensating like I don't know
what a pastor would wear on a Saturday, maybe it's a suit.
- So I'm Zach, former county chapel pastor
and now like fully Calvary guy.
- Whoa. Yes.
(laughter)
- Yeah, hence the tattoos and stuff.
My strategy is gonna be this idea of like really trying
to just hear the heart behind why people are pastoring.
- Daniel, also youth pastor, non-denominational.
- I'm Anna, largely non-denominational
kind of all over the place over the years.
- I mean, I have a question, like, education?
Just seminaries, maybe degrees, I don't know.
- Seminary, theological studies.
- Okay. Where at?
- King's College as well as Oxford University.
- Was that like an MA or was it a MDIV or...?
- You drilling me in. - I know.
Absolutely true.
- No, no. Your turn. Your turn.
- Oh, my turn? - Your turn. Yeah, yeah, man.
Give it to him.
- So, I'm in a MA program at Western Seminary, currently.
- I went to Calvary Chapel Bible College.
- Come on, dude!
- And then did the Veritas Program.
So, degree in theology was a focus in biblical studies.
- Oh sweet.
- Actually, not really a formal institution,
but I grew up in such a rural area.
There was just nothing for so far.
So more of, almost more of like an apprenticeship
kind of context. - Yeah, yeah.
- Tiny town with tinier towns around it.
So we all would kind of come to the same Lutheran church,
primarily, when I was studying.
- What kind of Lutheran church?
- Again, such a small area that- just Lutheran.
There's so few people to get-
- Generic brand. - Yes. Generic, generic.
Run of the mill Lutherans.
- Immediately, I thought, "Well, if she's a Lutheran pastor,
she would definitely say which denomination she would be."
- What town did you grow up in?
- Upper Michigan, actually. Very small area.
- What town?
- Near Marquette. It's kind of one of the big cities
around there, but... - Gotcha.
- It's the one that someone would know.
- Anna spoke in very general terms.
I don't even think she knew the city that she came from,
but she knew the city that was next
to the city she came from.
And at that point, I was done.
- You mentioned that you didn't grow up in the church.
More of that going around?
- Sure. Okay, go ahead.
- So, I've been there all my life.
Was baptized at seven years old.
I don't think I really became a believer until I was 30,
to be perfectly honest.
I did it because I was brought up,
and this is what you're supposed to do.
You do what they do and what they say
and you believe blah, blah, blah, blah.
So, yeah. And then I got kicked out.
(halted tape sound effect)
(laughter)
(bell rings)
(upbeat music)
- From what I knew about Lutherans, there should have been
a very specific answer to that question,
and that kind of threw me off.
- A-N-N-A. Done.
(buzzing noise)
- Where's the woman's night pass?
- I am so...
- Check your bias.
Bye!
- Sorry, dude. - Being the only woman
in the group today was a little tricky.
Obviously, not being able to always edge my way
into the conversation, was not able to present it
in the way that I would've liked,
and that I thought would've been more effective.
- I walked in, and I was so happy
that there was a female pastor
because they're the only types of people
that are as rare as gay pastors, like myself.
It's very much still new where we're seeing queer pastors
and queer worship leaders and queer Christians.
Tell me. You got kicked out for what?
- I got kicked out.
Well, I got kicked out because I was in the church,
and as I grew older in the church, I began to ask questions
that to me were very obvious.
- What was one of those questions?
- Is baptism essential for salvation?
You know, communion. You know, some of those,
you know, battleground questions that oftentimes separate,
you know, face denominations, yeah.
- I pastored high school kids for years,
and I never had any of them asking me that question.
- I want to know what everybody's
ministry responsibilities are,
and what you're currently teaching through.
- Yeah, so, I'm an assistant teaching pastor,
so we're replanting, revitalizing.
So, I'm an elder and a teaching pastor.
- I serve at a small Korean church in La Mirada, California,
and I take care of the youth ministry.
- So I'm kind of semi-retired.
I also don't have a congregation, although I work with one.
It's a little Episcopal church in San Clemente.
I also have a weird job
that I'm chaplain to a governmental agency.
- Jay answered a question about being retired,
but he never indicated what he was retired from.
And after years of being in ministry or serving,
I thought there would've been a culmination
of his life experiences.
And now, he's doing a part-time assistant thing?
And I thought, "Okay, so we've slipped
into some unknown factors about yourself, Jay."
- I don't pastor a church. I pastor pastors.
So I work for denomination,
and I preach at different congregations every week.
- I'm not in the pool pit right now, but I am teaching
in small groups conversations.
There's a lot of dogmatic positions
that are just generalized for Christendom.
- So, I have a question.
I mean, when was the last time, like,
you were in a hospital room with somebody,
and what comfort did you give them
at a time that was critical? - Oh, I hate this question.
- I think that someone who is in pastoral ministry,
it's more than just preaching and teaching.
Well, I felt a question that would get at that,
about how somebody gives the comfort and the peace
of the presence of God,
would really indicate whether or not they were a pastor
and they were involved in that type of ministry.
- Last time I was in the hospital was not too long ago.
I'd actually become almost a medical proxy
for a family friend's mother.
She was elderly and just kind of going through it.
And it was very tender for me.
But the comfort that I gave was in knowing
that her family was nearby.
And knowing that beyond this moment
when she stepped out of time into eternity,
she would be in the place she longed to be.
- I've only had to do it once, and it was very recent,
and I hated it with every fiber of my being
because it was for somebody that, like, I loved.
And it was a lot of waiting and quiet
and, like, very, very soft prayers
and just kind of being there.
And I'm shaking. I hated it.
(bell rings)
(upbeat music)
- The thing that I thought I spotted was
that he was just trying too hard.
- The way that he was answering the questions
was very old school.
(buzzer noise)
- Do y'all know Jesus? - Sorry, dude.
- I see what's happening. First, the woman.
Then the black man. The gay is next. (laughter)
I see what's happening.
- What the devil? Me?
I question everybody else left up there.
Do they know Jesus? 'Cause I know him.
- [Game Host] If you think the mole is still in the box,
and you want to continue playing the game,
please raise your hand.
- So, let's start with the question
of what does atheism mean to you?
- I talk to my kids a lot about agnosticism.
- Yeah. - More than I talk
about atheism.
Just, you know, because of the oversimplification
of like "As Atheist, I don't believe in God."
Well it's like, what is God?
- I go back to, like, what Augustine of Hippo said, right?
Like, all hearts are restless until they find rest in God.
And the atheist is not the enemy.
It's not just because you don't believe
in the God that I love and serve,
doesn't mean you're the enemy,
it means that you're restless in your heart,
and you're trying to search for meaning and belonging
in anything other than God.
- I'd be curious to know if anybody on stage
that did not have a real serious questioning time.
- You. You start. - Yeah, go ahead.
- You are very quiet.
And that's just a little sus to me.
- What was the question? - You are the best dressed.
- I'm a little overdressed today.
So, the question was, "Have I ever wrestled with faith?"
To be honest, I wrestled more with the calling
more than my faith.
My faith, once I had an experience and encounter with God
out of drug addiction,
my faith was pretty much, pretty solid.
But with the calling,
I think I wrestled countless amount of times.
In high school, my parents decided to split,
and that's when I really went
on a frenzy with drug addiction.
I struggled with crystal meth from my junior year.
I think that's what really put me to the pit of my life,
the most rock bottom of my life.
And the only way I could go is to look up.
- So I have a question. How do we feel about eschatology?
- Well, we're all millennial. - You're all millennial?
- Yeah, yeah, so. - Okay.
We are in the end times. - Yeah!
- We were the second Jesus said, "It was finished."
- Yeah, I have a lot more openness
to the mill position than I did.
Growing up County Chapel was, like, hyper sensational.
- Yes! This is a really, I'm like-
- Hyper sensational pre-mill. - This is such a sensitive
subject for me because of- - Because of your background?
- Right. - Yeah.
- Okay. That's cool.
- Hey, you know, I don't expect the end time anytime soon.
(bell rings)
- I sensed maybe a little bit of woundedness
that he was putting forth, and wondering if maybe
that was part of what he was using as a mask there.
(upbeat music)
- I won't lie to you.
Jay looked super familiar, and I was banking on him
being a paid actor that I had seen in something before.
- [Game Host] There was a tie.
The tie is between Jay and Daniel.
(beep noise)
I will give you each on the clock
30 seconds to state your case.
- You know, I don't know what to say except
that I think I should have not voted for that redo.
Other than that, you know, went to seminary, '85 to '88.
MDIV, Episcopal priest for 35 years.
I thought what was gonna do me in is I'm really liberal,
and you guys just killed me on that.
So that's basically it.
(bell rings) - I know what to say.
I am a pastor, please don't vote me out.
(laughter)
It's as simple as that.
I know that I've been ordained for a bit,
and I'm in this new congregation I'm really excited about.
And the reason that I actually came was
because I heard that there was some cash and I was like,
"I really want to take the kids on like a cool trip."
And so I really want to like split some of this cash
for the kids in the youth group.
So, that's why I'm here. And I don't wanna get voted out.
Also, don't be homophobic in June.
(laughter)
(bell rings)
- I was a youth pastor, man.
Like, we had budgets for that kind of stuff.
I didn't need to use my own personal money.
- I definitely saw the heart in Jay,
and I felt like Daniel was more of a presentation.
(buzzer noise)
(beep noise)
- I told you. Wow. Wow. - Called it.
- [Game Host] If the lights turn green,
that means the mole is out and you win.
If the lights turn red, that means the mole
is still in the box, and you lose.
Three, two, one!
- Yeah! - Nice.
(clapping)
- Good job, guys.
- [Game Host] Can the moles please reveal themselves?
One, two, three.
(dramatic music)
- Wow.
- But I'm gonna pray against the rest of y'all.
- My apologies man.
- Absolutely, absolutely.
- And Calvary Chapel. All of that was real?
- I do have a degree in theology from Calvary Chapel Valley.
- Got it. - A big part of it,
was a personal desire for knowledge and understanding
of my own existence.
So, that was really what drove the course.
And I wanted to feel like I was doing everything
I could to get those answers.
- So, I have actually worked in the church
for about eight years total as a pianist and organist.
So I had a lot to draw from.
- Here's what got me.
As a Lutheran, there are no general Lutherans.
- Yeah.
- No, that really is the thing though.
I promise, such a loosely populated area.
That that really is the case.
There's so little that even brings people together.
There's a lot of churches that are people who are
strongly Catholic, strongly Lutheran,
that will all be in the same place
because, like, a whole town will be
like a gas station, a corner store, and 10 houses.
- So we are very much in a turning point
in the community when it comes
to queer individuals in Christianity.
Even though I do not subscribe to Christianity,
it's great to see, at least a portion
of this community that has such a large history
of having a negative agenda towards us as a community
opening up their eyes, admitting their wrongs,
apologizing and seeking reconciliation.
And I think that it can only, you know,
get better so long as they continue to move on that track.
- Pastors actually think a little bit more deeply
about people and their condition of their soul.
And I really hope that those who view this
would actually seek out that type
of spiritual direction as well.
- Make it rain! - Make it rain?
- Okay. - All right.
- Yeah!
(cheering and clapping)