welcome to my new series called talk tech with tiff where i am sitting down
with industry professionals to hear about their career journeys and current roles i
created this series to hear from people who are established in the tech industry
so that we can all learn what these individuals do in their day-to-day jobs and the type of
opportunities that are out there okay let's get started today i am sitting down with serena who
is a product manager at zoomer media hi serena hey tiff how's it going it's going good how are you
good yeah thank you thanks for being here today thanks for having me i'm really excited i'm so
excited i was reading a bit about your background and your journey to product management and it's
so interesting because it's not necessarily a straight path which i think is pretty cool
so i'd be interested to hear more about your current role as a product manager yeah um so right
now i'm working for a canadian media agency um we basically do things everything from television
to radio print magazines events um things like that so i work on the digital team there and we
manage about 30 30 or so websites and apps um and yeah so for me i'm more concerned with day-to-day
development operations so everything from you know sprint planning making tickets things like that to
you know dealing with clients designers everyone from everywhere in the business wow that's
really cool it's i for dealing or not dealing but interacting with my own product managers at work
i can say honestly i think product managers have one of the toughest jobs because there are so many
balls in the air at all times and you're wearing so many different hats yeah it's definitely true
but i think i find it pretty fun i think it would be boring to just be doing one thing every day so
yeah the chaos can be overwhelming sometimes but it's mostly just exciting yeah you gotta thrive in
the chaos exactly it's gotta ride the wave i like what happens that's awesome but i know you have
you actually haven't always had a path to product management or it wasn't just a straight path
you uh you went to school for international you have an international relations background right
yes yeah so tell me and i know you've been in uh a media background as well
and i know zoomer is obviously media as well but what was your path like to product management
now um yeah so i've always had an interest in you know the performing arts and film
and things like that so my whole life i kind of expected that that's the route i would take um
the decision to do international relations in university was honestly a random one i made when
i was 17. um i don't think i ever really planned to pursue it or or anything like that but uh
yeah after graduating i started working in film um and i did not like it as much as i thought i would
okay so yeah um i really did enjoy the creative aspect of it of course um but i
found the i found like the organizational habits of a lot of people in the industry
maybe just don't align with my personality so when the opportunity came up to work at zoomer
which is still you know media very creative yeah but in a tech role um yeah i jumped at it that's
really cool that's good and i know going back to you so casually said too which i think is
super interesting how international relations is what you have a background in but even when from
my understanding when you were even going through it you knew maybe you wouldn't be doing it after
i get asked a lot from people who went to school for something different than what they want to
pursue and it stresses a lot of people out but you're so casual about it you're like
yeah i went to school for this but during school i knew i wasn't going to use it so
how give me your experience or your advice as to how important is it to go to school for something
i mean okay i'm not talking about going to school to become a doctor or you know what i'm saying
here but to go to school for something and then switch into a different role or different industry
um i think it really depends on what you want to do so for example when i wanted to go into
the arts uh as long as i was pursuing that on the side for me i felt like that was fine yes like you
know you can manage your schedule so that you know you can do that main degree and then still
pursue your interests and passions on the side but yeah i don't know i think it definitely depends on
the person but i would say if you have an interest which is not aligned with what you're studying or
working on full-time just do it in whatever capacity you can and the experience i got
just doing stuff on the side was probably far greater than the experience i would have gotten um
if i'd studied production or something i mean i can't speak to that because i didn't but
yeah yeah exactly but real world experience versus you know sometimes just relying on
sitting in a classroom which is important but that real world experience is something that is i think
so valuable 100 yeah like you know talking to friends who did study i don't know acting
or production design and things like that obviously their experience is very technical
they're super knowledgeable but i mean for me to just be like i'm gonna go do a film i'll
catch up on my classes later yes it was great like i learned so much and you just learn it in
the moment you have to be reactive exactly exactly so essentially do side projects or do internships
and what you're passionate about or take on all those opportunities and even if it's not what
you're going to school for yeah absolutely i would say so i love that kind of going back more to
your current role as a product manager um i'm going to brag about you for a second here
i know you transitioned from a digital digital pro sorry digital products coordinator to a product
manager and i believe it was three months yes yeah that's amazing yeah that's really amazing
i i don't know about that but um yeah it was easier than i thought it would be because
i'm lucky that i had a really good team to back me up they were so willing to help me with everything
and i think the reason i got the opportunity is because they were short of product managers so
they were like hey i think you can figure this out do you want to just do it yeah yeah that's
really cool hey they could have hired from outside so the fact they you know that's still huge and
i know uh with com becoming a product manager it also comes with learning a lot of new tools
uh so kind of two questions here one is what are some tools that you use on a daily basis
and the other is what are some tips for someone who is considering or wanting to become a product
manager how do you quickly pick up new tools um so for your first question in terms of tools i
use every day you know jira is the main one we use at our company um they love like the whole google
suite so you know google docs spreadsheets excel like there's nothing i use that's super complex
um but that being said getting familiar with wordpress was one of the things i had to do
um learning about jenkins learning like what is vs code i really started from knowing absolutely
nothing so yeah i think learning new tools google's your best friend it is it really is
i think you've said that in so many of your videos but like you just have to google things you do
you really do so for you mentioned jenkins and vs code those are all really technical tools
so for i know it varies product manager to product manager but how technical would you
say your product manager role is um for me the job description is not very technical i don't actually
need to know a lot um but that being said knowing more makes your life a lot easier yeah you know
because you are working with developers at the end of the day so if you could speak their language
everybody's just going to have an easier time so that's so true yeah like i'm still learning like
i'm still so behind on like all the things i want to know and need to know but it's just a process
oh you know what listen i feel like i'm still so behind i feel like everyone in the tech industry
feels so behind right yeah it's changing every day and there's so much coming up but it's just
it's impossible pretty much yeah and it's just like i feel like for me anyways it's
embracing that just recognizing that hey i'm never gonna have it all figured out it's just
constantly learning exactly and once you become okay with that like it
takes the pressure off a little bit it does i know when i first started i would often think okay i
need to learn this today and know this tomorrow et cetera and the pressure it puts on someone is just
first of all it's impossible and second of all it's just it's the pressure too much
yeah like if you put that much pressure on yourself you're never going to do it
exactly it's like you know exactly i agree so going back to working closely with developers
what is some tips that you would have for other product managers or people looking to get into it
who might be a little nervous for that because a lot of developers or some developers anyways
just want to focus on the technical parts and not necessarily uh focus more so on the client
or the task the bigger picture when it comes to the client so how do you how do you find
communicating with developers and how do you what are some strategies you use to be successful um
well at the end of the day they are just people yeah so if you can explain things
high level to clients the developers might find that a little more frustrating when you
don't know exactly what they're talking about when they get super technical but um i think
putting an onus on yourself to try to constantly learn and if you hear a new word and you're like i
have no idea what this is looking it up and and just trying your best to meet them at the same
level yeah is probably what i would do um but yeah i think definitely depends on the team depends on
the person depends on your personality it's hard to say it's true every team's so different every
product manager role every developer every role really depends on the team too how it how it's
kind of run yeah exactly for sure that's really cool okay i have another question for you around
getting into product management i get asked sometimes they are considering getting into
product management but they don't really know if it's for them and i know it varies person
to person but what are some skills or some of your favorite things about product management
that maybe someone can go hey i like that too maybe product management is for me
yeah um you have to like dealing with people um all kinds of people that's probably a big one
just being comfortable with that um organizational skills definitely help and like that can come from
anywhere yeah so you know like for me i've always been like that kid with a color-coded
agenda so for me that was that was very helpful to have but um in terms of getting into it there's
so many courses available online um like udemy linkedin even like where you can learn agile and
scrum and things like that so i found that very helpful personally but also there's um courses
like you can do a csm or a cspo course and i did one recently and it was so helpful like super
helpful even if it's things you think you know just terminology and theories yeah yeah yeah it's
so true i've heard i've heard really good things about the csm uh it's a certification right yes
yes yeah yeah i heard it's quite difficult um i did cspo which is um very similar but
the spo is for product owners rather than scrub masters okay um and i wouldn't say it's difficult
okay but it's taxing it's um typically done over two days and it's like a 16-hour crash course so
it's um grueling but you know they break it down for you and if you have any familiar familia
familiarity with any of the words already or terms then it's a lot better yeah that's really cool and
so we're talking a little bit about what you enjoy about it the organizational side what are some
things about it that are your least favorite or you dislike so the chaos is a blessing and
a curse for sure there's days where i'm all about it and like loving it but then there's
days where i'm like okay like this like nothing makes sense why is this happening you know but
but that's life um i would say managing deadlines is a really hard thing to do um planning and like
sprint planning especially in my organization because it's media so things change very fast
and there's a lot of creative decisions that change quite a lot yeah um you know planning
a sprint saying okay this is what we're going to be doing this sprint and then having someone be
like hi i need this up in two hours otherwise we're dead so just kind of balancing that is
something i find a bit frustrating sometimes but it's okay exactly and as and as the opposite side
of that as a developer i think it's been honed it's been pushed on me so much to be like tiff
from other developers never give your product manager timeline which i know you're gonna hate
from used to say so i'm sure you have to deal sometimes too with developers being like well
it'll be done soon but yeah no definitely but i'm really lucky my the devs on my team are so great
that i'm like okay somebody's breathing down my neck right now just between you and me what are
we looking at yeah exactly the more authentic and and candid conversations you can have with
other team members i feel like is is the way to go 100 like you know they're my team at the
end of the day so having that relationship with them that's just between us like it you know it
helps because they know that i'm looking out for them they're looking out for me and it just makes
everything a lot easier and a lot less stressful when you have someone you know is like actually on
your side oh like one thousand percent i remember having some product managers who it was a very uh
very work-related work work relationship i don't know how you would say it but it was very
they ask when they need something and that's kind of it and it can definitely make for not
the best communication whereas if you're working closely with someone especially a product manager
that you feel like really has your back and wants you to succeed as much as they want the
product to succeed and it just makes for such an overall better work environment and i think
better quality of work overall that's produced definitely i completely agree yeah for sure
that's really so for someone who is watching this and wants to get into product management
management but has no background in it prior what is some advice i know this is a very big question
but what is some advice or tips that you would give to them of where to start whether it be
networking or just finding different opportunities networking 110 i don't think i ever would have
found myself in this industry if it weren't for networking um like talk to anyone talk to everyone
the best piece of advice i have ever gotten like on an actual networking call was
after the call always ask the person that you're talking to is there anyone else in your network
who you might be willing to connect me with and like it changed my life because you go from like
you know cold reaching out to people on linkedin and maybe they'll respond to getting one person
having them connect you with three people and then three more people it's game changer for sure yeah
i've never heard that piece of advice before but i'm always going to do that now exactly and like
nine times out of ten they will connect you with someone it's like as long as they like you even
if they can't really help you or help you get a job but yeah people are people are cool that way
they are and i find especially too i mean i can only speak to fashion and tech but in the tech
industry that people are so i was very shocked of how willing people are strange complete strangers
that are willing to help you they're just excited to have you in the industry they want to share
their network like it's a very big community which is pretty cool yeah no it's great and
it's very welcoming which is so nice yeah yeah i think people from the outside looking in think oh
this is going to be it's hard to break in it's very intimidating there's this like wall up but
once you just start networking and putting yourself out there it's it's pretty friendly it's
true absolutely yeah i just gotta kind of take it in and like just do it exactly yeah what about
coming from a background that necessarily yes it was in media but not around uh product management
how do you make your resume stand out when you are applying for this job now i know networking is
the biggest tip to anything but what are some what's some advice you would give for people who
don't have a lot of experience for the role they are applying for
yeah um the main thing i would say is just because you have experience in a different field
or different industry does not mean that those skills you have won't apply to your new role so
whatever it was that you were doing before there's definitely going to be some commonalities and some
skills that you have that you can transfer over so definitely highlight those whatever that may be so
for me i guess coming from film production to product management was like organization
managing schedules and deadlines and things like that so that's a big one um and also just
like general resume tips just make sure it's not more than one page if you're early in your career
i have been roasted for having like a long resume so just don't do it yeah i've been
there too i hear you because you almost want to overcompensate yeah exactly but i feel like
leaving enough space in your resume that somebody actually wants to call you back and talk about it
is helpful and that's like one of the things that helped me because you want to make sure
that you're putting enough information down that they want to talk to you but you're not giving so
much that they're like well i don't need to speak to them i already know what i'm getting wow i like
that that's good leave them wanting more in a way exactly yeah always leave them wanting more
i love that last question i have for you is what is some advice in maybe one or two sentences that
you would give to your younger self oh i'm putting you on the spot yeah um chill out i love that like
actually relax stop trying to over plan do what you need to do to get to the next step but also
take opportunities as they come and just say yes yes i love all of that that's great serena thank
you so much for chatting with me today i feel like this has been so valuable and i've learned so much
from listening to you thank you thank you so much for having me this was really fun thank you