CROWN PRINCE OF SAUD >>> WE’RE BACK ON "MORNING JOE"
SPEAKING WITH JONATHAN SWAN OF
ACTION OWE TALKING ABOUT HIS
INTERVIEW WITH JARED KUSHNER.
HERE IS KUSHNER DEFENDING HIS
CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH SAUDI
CROWN PRINCE MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN
AS ONE BETWEEN THE U.S. AND A
LONG-TERM ALLY.
LONG-TERM ALLY. >> HOW MANY CONVERSATIONS HAVE
YOU HAD WITH MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN
ABOUT THE MURDER OF JAMAL
KHASHOGGI?
KHASHOGGI? >> THE PEOPLE WHO NEED TO KNOW
ABOUT THOSE CONVERSATIONS IN OUR
GOVERNMENT THAT’S RELATED TO THE
JOBS THEY’RE DOING, THEY KNOW
ABOUT THOSE DISCUSSIONS.
>> BUT SPECIFICALLY SAID BIN
SALMAN ORDERED IT.
THE CIA BRIEFED MEMBERS OF THE
SENATE WHO VOTED THAT WAY.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE
ADMINISTRATION IS WAITING FOR IN
TERMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
>> I BELIEVE THERE’S A REPORT
THEY’RE WORKING ON.
THEY’VE BEEN DOING AN
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. WHEN THEY HAVE THE FACTS OF THE
INVESTIGATION, IT’LL BE UP TO
THE PRESIDENT TO MAKE A
DETERMINATION ON WHAT HE WANTS
TO DO.
TO DO. >> ARE YOU WILLING TO SAY THAT
MBS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
KHASHOGGI’S DEATH?
KHASHOGGI’S DEATH? >> WHEN DID THIS COME UP AGAIN?
WHAT ARE YOU -- ARE YOU BACK
FOUR MONTHS AGO?
NO.
NO. >> NOPE.
>> NOPE. JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES AGO.
JARED KUSHNER TALKING TO
JONATHAN SWAN IS WHAT THE
QUESTION WAS ABOUT.
JARED KUSHNER, DOES HE PLACE ANY
BLAME ON THE CROWN PRINCE FOR
THE DEATH OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI?
>> IF HE DOES, HE WON’T SAY IT
PUBLICLY.
PUBLICLY. AND HE DEFEND -- DEFEND IS
PROBABLY THE WRONG WORD.
HE DEFLECTED.
HE DEFLECTED. I REALLY TRIED TO PUSH HIM BACK.
WE’VE HEARD HIM SAY THAT BEFORE
IN INTERVIEWS HE’S DONE BEFORE.
EXPLAINING THE STRATEGIC
JUSTIFICATION OF THE
RELATIONSHIP WITH SAUDI ARABIA.
I THINK EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS
THAT.
THAT. WHAT I TRIED TO DO WAS TO NARROW
IT TO MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN.
THIS LEADER THAT THIS WHITE
HOUSE HAS INVESTED A LOT IN.
THAT THEY’VE PROMOTED AS A
REFORMER.
REFORMER. WITH THE THINGS HE’S DONE
WHETHER IT BE ORDERING THE
MURDER OF KHASHOGGI OR THE WAY
THEY CONDUCTED THE WAR IN YEMEN.
AGAIN, I TRY TO GET HIM TO ROCK
CON WITH THAT.
HE VERY MUCH PUNTED ON THE
KHASHOGGI SITUATION.
KHASHOGGI SITUATION. HE SAID THAT THE STATE
DEPARTMENT IS STILL
INVESTIGATING AND WHEN THEY COME
TO CONCLUSIONS, THEY’LL HAVE
MORE TO SAY.
>> YOU KNOW, DAVID IGNATIUS,
TIME AND AGAIN THE TRUMP WHITE
HOUSE NOT JUST JARED KUSHNER HAS
DOWN PLAYED THE CROWN PRINCE’S
ROLE IN THE MURDER OF JAMAL
KHASHOGGI.
KHASHOGGI. THIS CONTRADICTS THE CIA.
THE CIA HAS CONCLUDED THAT MBS
WAS BEHIND THE DEATH OF
KHASHOGGI.
KHASHOGGI. HOW CAN KUSHNER SIT THERE AND
SHRUG HIS SHOULDERS AND NOT AT
LEAST CONFIRM WHAT THE
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES HAVE TOLD
HIM AND TOLD THIS WHITE HOUSE?
>> IT’S SHOCKING TO ME.
KHASHOGGI WAS MY COLLEAGUE AND
FRIEND AS YOU KNOW.
AND I WATCHED KUSHNER IN THAT
COLD-BLOODED WAY DISMISS IT,
PREND IT DOESN’T MATTER.
I DON’T LIKE TO WATCH THAT.
I’LL NOTE ONE INTERESTING THING.
KUSHNER MAY IGNORE THIS.
PRESIDENT TRUMP MAY WAVE AWAY A
QUESTION SHOUTED FROM A
REPORTER, BUT I’M TOLD MIKE
POMPEO HAS SAID REPEATEDLY TO
MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, YOU HAVE TO
MAKE CHANGES.
MAKE CHANGES. YOU HAVE TO GET RID OF THE
PEOPLE WHO COUNSELED YOU TO GET
RID OF THIS MURDER.
AND MBS TO THIS DAY HASN’T DONE
IT.
IT. THERE’S A KEY SENIOR OFFICIAL
WHO I’M TOLD HAS NOT BEEN IN ANY
EFFECTIVE WAY ARRESTED FOR HIS
ALLEGED ROLE IN THIS.
AND HE -- MBS JUST KEEPS BLOWING
OFF AMONG OTHERS SECRETARY OF
STATE MIKE POMPEO.
THAT’S HOW CONFIDENT, MAYBE
ARROGANT HE SEEMS TO FEEL.
>> JUST BUILDING ON WHAT DAVID
SAID.
SAID. THE PROBLEM GOES BEYOND THE
MURDER OF KHASHOGGI EVEN THOUGH
THAT’S BAD ENOUGH.
THE PREMISE OF THE
ADMINISTRATION’S POLICY IS THAT
MBS AND SAUDI ARABIA ARE OUR --
ONE OF OUR TWO PRINCIPLE
PARTNERS IN A CRITICAL PART OF
THE WORLD.
THE WORLD. AND I WOULD JUST THINK THIS
MURDER AND THE AFTERMATH, WHAT
THEY’VE DONE IN YEMEN.
THE ISOLATION OF QATAR.
IT’S A LONG LIST.
IT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR
FUTURE MIDDLE EAST POLICY
WHETHER ESSENTIALLY BY GIVING
UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT TO THIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. WHETHER WE’VE PUT AN AWFUL LOT
OF OUR FATE IN THE HANDS OF
SOMEONE WHO SIMPLY HASN’T
DEMONSTRATED ANYTHING LIKE THE
DECISION MAKING SKILLS AND
MATURITY THAT WE WOULD WANT.
AND SO I WONDER AS MUCH ABOUT
THAT AS I DO ABOUT THIS
UNWILLINGNESS TO FACE UP TO THIS
CRIME.
CRIME. >> WHAT I WONDER ABOUT AND I’LL
SPECULATE AND MAYBE YOU’LL AGREE
OR NOT.
OR NOT. BASED ON THE BEHAVIOR OF
KUSHNER’S RELATIONSHIP WITH MBS,
IT SEEMS AS THOUGH SOMETHING
ELSE IS GOING THERE.
KUSHNER HAS BUSINESS DEALINGS.
THE SAUDIS ARE INVOLVED IN
BUSINESS DEALINGS.
BUSINESS DEALINGS. AND I WONDER AS MANY AMERICANS
DO, IS JARED KUSHNER CONDUCTING
THE BUSINESS OF THE UNITED
STATES OR CONDUCTING THE
BUSINESS OF KUSHNER.
>> I DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER TO
THAT.
THAT. THAT’S NOT JUST ABOUT HIM.
THERE’S ANY NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
THERE’S ONE ABOUT WHETHER SHE’S
COMMINGLING BUSINESS WITH HER
JOB.
JOB. ALL
ALL ALL I KNOW IS THEY ARE A FLAWED
VESSEL IN WHICH TO PUT SO MUCH
OF OUR HOPES FOR PART OF THE
WORLD THAT STILL MATTERS.
>> HE SEEMED TO INITIATE THIS
CONTACT BECAUSE HE -- THE FIRST
PRESIDENTIAL VISIT WAS TO SAUDI
ARABIA.
ARABIA. >> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. FROM THE GET GO THEY HAVE BEEN
AT THE CENTER OF THINGS.
I THINK A LOT OF IT WUSS TO
NORMALIZE RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL
AND TRANSFORM THE REGION.
AND IT JUST ISN’T GOING WELL.
WHEN I MEET WITH MIDDLE EAST
ANALYSTS WHICH IS SOMETHING I DO
FOR A LIVING, A LOT OF THEM HAVE
FUNDAMENTAL DOUBTS ABOUT THE
LONG-TERM STABILITY OF SAUDI
ARABIA.
ARABIA. >> ANYSHAY, WE NEED TO NAIL THIS
DOWN AND BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT
JARED KUSHNER IS DISMISSING
HERE.
HERE. THE CIA REACHED THE CONCLUSION
MBS WAS BEHIND THIS.
IN FACT, A GROUP OF UNITED
STATES WAS BRIEFED.
LINDSEY GRAHAM WHO SUPPORTED THE
PRESIDENT ON EVERYTHING CALLED
THE EVIDENCE HE SAW THAT DAY,
QUOTE, A SMOKING SAW.
THERE WAS NO DOUBT IN HIS MIND
OR OF ANYBODY WHO’S SEEN THE
INTELLIGENCE WHO WAS BEHIND THE
MURDER OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI.
>> WELL, I THINK IT SAYS -- THE
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THIS
ADMINISTRATION AND U.S.
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES UNFORTUNATELY ISN’T AS STRONG AS
IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST WITH
PAST WHITE HOUSE
ADMINISTRATIONS.
ADMINISTRATIONS. BUT I ALSO THINK IT’S IMPORTANT
WHAT THIS SAYS ABOUT THE U.S.
DANCE OF PRESS FREEDOM AROUND
THE WORLD.
THE WORLD. I WAS BORN AND RACED IN
BANGLADESH.
BANGLADESH. WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, THE U.S.
REGULARLY SENT ELECTION
MONITORS.
MONITORS. THEY MONITORED OUR PRESS
FREEDOMS AND THAT WAS SOMETHING
WE WERE REBUKED ON.
IF THEY THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW,
PRESS FREEDOM WASN’T BIG
HONORED.
HONORED. WHAT DOES THIS SAY THE FACT THIS
ADMINISTRATION CAN’T PROPERLY
REBUKE SAUDI ARABIA BUT EVEN
COME OUT WITH A CLEAR STATEMENT?
I MEAN, WE’RE WAITING FOR THIS
REPORT THAT THE SAUDIS ARE
SUPPOSED TO GIVE ON KHASHOGGI’S
MURDER THAT’S BEING OVERSEEN BY
MBS AND HIS OWN PEOPLE.
IT’S ALL VERY REALLY UNSETTLING.
IT’S GOING TO LEAVE A TERRIBLE
LEGACY FOR AMERICA AND AMERICA’S
PROTECTION OF PRESS FREEDOMS
AROUND THE WORLD.
>> AS WE SAID, JONATHAN SWAN
COVERED A LOT OF GROUND WITH
JARED KUSHNER.
JARED KUSHNER. HERE’S THEIR EXCHANGE ABOUT THE
2016 TRUMP TOWER MEETING THAT’S
GOT SON MUCH ATTENTION.
>> ON JUNE 8th, 2016, YOU WERE
SENT AN EMAIL WITH AN OFFER OF
HELP FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN FROM
THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT.
>> I’M SORRY?
WHICH EMAIL ARE YOU TALKING
ABOUT?
ABOUT? >> THE EMAIL FROM RON GOLDSTONE.
>> LOOK, JONATHAN --
>> NO, NO, NO.
MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHY DIDN’T
YOU PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL
THE FBI?
THE FBI? IT WAS AN EMAIL THAT SAID THE
RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WAS TRYING TO
HELP.
HELP. WHY DIDN’T YOU COTHAT?
>> WE’RE IN A PLACE NOW WHERE
PEOPLE ARE BEING SO
SELF-RIGHTEOUS.
SELF-RIGHTEOUS. LET ME PUT YOU IN MY SHOES AT
THAT TIME.
THAT TIME. I’M RUNNING THREE COMPANIES.
I’M HELPING RUN THE CAMPAIGN.
I GOT THE EMAIL ABOUT A MEETING
SAYING SHOW UP EARLIER.
I STAY FOR 15 MINUTES.
IT’S A CLOWN SHOW.
ONE SECOND.
ONE SECOND. LET ME FINISH THIS.
I TEXT AND SAY CAN YOU GIVE ME A
CALL AND GET ME THE HELL OUT OF
HERE.
HERE. I LEAVE.
I LEAVE. I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT
THAT MEETING AGAIN.
HAD THERE BEEN SOMETHING
NEFARIOUS AT THAT MEETING THAT
WOULD HAVE COME UP, I WOULD HAVE
DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
BUT THE MEETING WAS A TOTAL
WASTE OF TIME.
>> WOULD YOU CALL THE FBI IF IT
HAPPENED AGAIN?
HAPPENED AGAIN? >> I DON’T KNOW.
IT’S HARD TO DO THE
HYPOTHETICALS.
HYPOTHETICALS. BUT WE WERE NOT GIVEN ANYTHING
SALACIOUS.
SALACIOUS. >> WOW.
>> WOW. JONATHAN SWAN, I HAVE TWO
QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
ONE, DID THEY LEARN NOTHING FROM
THE MUELLER SITUATION, THIS
INVESTIGATION AS TO THE
SUBSTANCE OF HIS ANSWER THERE
SAYING HE’S NOT SURE IF HE WOULD
CALL THE FBI.
SECONDLY, I’M NOT SURE WHAT
ORDER WE PLAYED THE SOUND BITES
IN.
IN. HE SOUNDED VERY TESTY IN THAT
ANSWER.
ANSWER. IS THAT HOW YOU KIND OF WRAPPED
UP THE INTERVIEW?
IT WAS A TOUGH RIDE FOR HIM.
>> SO WITH THE -- WITH THAT
QUESTION, OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A
LOT OF SPECULATION BEFORE THE
MUELLER REPORT CAME OUT THAT
JARED KUSHNER WAS GOING TO BE
INDICTED AND HE WASN’T INDICTED.
ULTIMATELY I THINK WHEN THE
REPORT CAME OUT, HE FELT -- MY
UNDERSTANDING IS HE FELT PRETTY
GOOD ABOUT IT.
I ONLY HAD THAT ONE QUESTION
BECAUSE HE WAS ON THAT EMAIL
TRAIL FOR THAT MEETING.
AND IT DID EXPLICITLY SAY IT HAD
RUSSIA IN THE SUBJECT LINE.
SO I WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER HE
GRASPED THE SERIOUSNESS OF IT.
AND WHETHER HE WOULD CALL THE
FBI IF IT HAPPENED AGAIN.
I’LL ADMIT.
I’LL ADMIT. I WAS SURPRISED BY THE ANSWER.
LOOK.
LOOK. THAT SECTION GOT A LITTLE BIT
TESTY.
TESTY. THAT WASN’T HOW THE INTERVIEW
ENDED.
ENDED. IT ENDED WITH ME -- IF YOU WATCH
THE FULL EPISODE WITH ME ASKING
HIM ABOUT DONALD TRUMP’S LEGACY.
AND HE SORT OF LAYS OUT THE TWO
BIG THINGS THAT HE THINKS THE
PRESIDENT WILL BE REMEMBERED
FOR.
FOR. CHANGING THE PEOPLE COME TO
WASHINGTON AND AMERICA’S PLACE
IN THE WORLD.
LOOK.
LOOK. WE WENT THROUGH A LOT OF -- WE
COVERED A LOT OF GROUND IN THAT
INTERVIEW.
INTERVIEW. WE COVERED ISRAELI/PALESTINIAN
PEACE DEAL, HIS FAMILY HISTORY
OF REFUGEES, WE COVERED RUSSIA,
SOME OF THE CONTROVERSIES THAT
HAVE OCCURRED DURING HIS TIME IN
THE WHITE HOUSE AND SOME OTHER
BIG PICTURE THINGS. LOT OF GROUN
THAT INTERVIEW.
THAT INTERVIEW. >> BY THE WAY, FBI DIRECTOR
CHRISTOPHER WRAY OFFERED HELPFUL
ADVICE IN RECENT CONGRESSIONAL
TESTIMONY WHEN HE SAID IN THE
FUTURE IF A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
CALLS YOU OR IF A FOREIGN ENTITY
REACHES OUT TO HELP YOU, CALL
THE FBI.
THE FBI. NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR
AXIOS, JONATHAN SWAN, REMARKABLE
INTERVIEW WITH JARED KUSHNER.
THANKS SO MUCH, GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>>> COMING UP, LAST WEEK
PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID IT WAS FAKE
NEWS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE
REQUESTED THE USS JOHN McCAIN BE
MOVED OUT OF SIGHT DURING HIS
RECENT TRIP TO JAPAN, BUT HIS
ACTING CHIEF OF STAFF, MICK
MULVANEY, IS NOT DENYING THAT IT
HAPPENED.
HAPPENED. HE SAID THE REQUEST WAS, QUOTE,
NOT AN UNREASONABLE THING TO
ASK.
ASK. WE’LL SHOW YOU MULVANEY’S NEW