-I want to talk about the fact that you obviously
had a longstanding relationship with Trump's children.
And you mention in the book
that in the early days of his campaign,
they would come to you and ask him to get out of the race.
They also thought that his rhetoric early on was racist.
Now, it does seem like they were not repulsed on a moral level.
They were more worried about how it would hurt the Trump brands,
the clothing brands.
What do you -- What have you observed
from their sort of journey from being against his rhetoric
to now seeming to be very full-throated supporters of his?
-It's really a complete 180.
When they first came to me, the three --
Don, Ivanka, and Eric came to me.
This was post the initial launch of the campaign
when he made the statements about Mexicans.
The very first reaction by Univision was,
"We're pulling out from the Trump Doral,"
and it was costing the Trump organization,
between Doral and other properties that they have,
it was costing them tens of millions of dollars.
And the kids came to me, and they stated,
"Look, you know, you got to get Dad to stop this.
This is -- We're gonna be out of business.
Very soon you'll be the CEO of this company,"
and they were gonna change the name to the Rump Organization.
-Now, I do want to ask this question of you right now --
-But it is interesting if you look at it.
Don Jr. has now become
the spokesperson for the Second Amendment.
And that's also, I believe, included.
Trump hates guns. Right?
And Trump hated the fact that Don and Eric went to Zimbabwe
and that they killed a whole slew of animals.
Could not understand how stupid that they could be
to allow those photos to end up on the Internet.
That, "You know, you guys think that you're big tough guys
with a $10,000 gun that I ended up paying for,
shooting, you know, an animal while you're sitting there."
Many of us had to go there and explain to Mr. Trump
that they had licenses for it, that they did it the proper way.
They weren't illegally doing anything
and that all of the meat was actually provided
to villages that survived off of that.
He didn't care. It didn't make a difference.
He hates guns.
And it's just interesting that now Don Jr.,
who was really considered the one child
who had the worst judgment of any of his children,
somehow managed to be front and center,
specifically with the NRA and talking Trump.
I mean, it's truly an amazing thing.
It's something that he's wanted his whole life,
acknowledgement from his father.
-It does also amaze me that maybe where Trump
is most concerned about legality is in big-game hunting.
-Yeah. -Michael, obviously,
you're aware of this, that a lot of people --
You say it's important to write a book like this,
because to understand the badness of Donald Trump,
you have to hear directly from the bad guys
who worked for him and did the bad things for him.
You're admitting to serving that role.
Yet there are people questioning why you should be sort of hailed
as an anti-Trump hero now after everything you have done.
Like, what do you say to people
who question the way you're being perceived now?
-So, first of all, I've never asked anybody to call me a hero,
to the same extent I never asked anybody to call me the villain.
I have to make amends to my wife, my daughter, my son,
and to this country.
And as I stated once to George Stephanopoulos
several years ago,
my loyalty is to my family and to this country.
And it took me getting -- basically losing everything.
I talk about this in the epilogue
that I'm broke and I'm broken.
And it took this sort of kick to really push me
into acknowledging the things that I did
and the loss of my moral compass
for a man who lacks a moral compass on his own.
Why I fell into the cult and how I fell into the cult,
I really can't describe it adequately,
other than to say the 38% of this country, his base,
including members of Congress,
are doing exactly the same thing that I did.
And I'm trying to say to them,
from one member of the cult to another,
open up your eyes and acknowledge
that Trump doesn't care about you,
he doesn't care about your family,
he doesn't care about anything other than winning this election
and, in essence, becoming an autocrat,
which is what he wants to be.
-Also in the book, you sort of admit to personally
and sort of rabidly pushing the birtherism,
um, you know, "theory," for lack of a better term.
As we're having this sort of national reckoning of race,
I imagine it must be painful to acknowledge the role you served
in putting a racist in the White House.
-Well, yes. And one of the things
I tried to do when I created
the National Diversity Coalition for Trump
was really to open up his eyes
and understand that America is not white.
America is a multiracial, multiethnic country.
We're the melting pot.
And he really needs to understand that.
And so I created this organization
that really exploded in size.
And we had everybody from, you know, Jews to Christians
to Muslims, black, white, brown.
It encompassed everybody.
And my hope was that, by seeing his crowd,
which is predominantly white, and it is to this day,
that he would understand that if you want to win the election,
you need to seek out the minority vote.
You need to understand that America -- right? --
is not white and that, you know,
they are an important voting bloc.
They're important to this country.
And I failed in that. I failed miserably.
-I was surprised to read, but also appreciated the honesty,
that you do still have affection for
and care for President Trump.
-Yeah, it's -- it's hard.
I guess the only way to describe it is
the same way you have a parent that is somewhat abusive to you,
and you still care about them.
But at least I recognize the person that I'm dealing with.
And again, all I'm just trying to do is to make amends
and to allow the book to serve as a basis
for people to understand -- this is the man that wants you
to vote for him and to pull the lever
on his behalf come Election Day.
And I'm giving you all of the inside information
that you need in order to make the determination
whether this man is really who you think
is best for you and best for this country.
-Well, Michael, I do wish you luck in your next chapter.
And I want to read just a quote from the book.
It's really a beautiful piece of prose.
And I hope if there's anything
that people take away from the book, it's this.
"Trump was fresh from the shower and hadn't done his hair yet..."
-[ Laughs ] -"...as it was still air-drying.
When his hair wasn't done, his strands of dyed golden hair
reached below his shoulders, along the right side of his head
and on his back, like a balding Allman brother
or strung-out old '60s hippy."
Really, truly, beautiful prose.
-Seth, thank you very much
for picking that part of the book out.
-And I do recommend, everybody, when you buy the book,
just go right to "Flip flop flap,"
because that is an incredible --
incredible explanation of what's going on up there.
Thank you so much for being here, Michael.