- How are the high school years different?
Let's talk about that.
(gentle music)
Welcome to The Simply Charlotte Mason Podcast.
I'm Sonya Shafer.
You know, in a lot of ways,
the high school years can be just a continuation
of what you've been doing all along
but in other ways, they're different.
And we want to talk
about that today with my friend and co-worker, Laura Pitney.
You have two high schoolers now, right?
- Mm-hmm. - Okay, and I've had four.
They're all out of the high school years now
but we've walked through this before.
- Yes.
It seems like there's an overarching transition
that needs to happen during those high school years.
And we were discussing it earlier.
Explain what that overarching transition is.
- I think that for me
the goal has been to help them become young adults.
And there are the school lessons that
are a component of that.
Their hearts are a component of that.
Their work ethics are a component of that.
So all these things are the recipe being mixed together
to help them mature into those young adults.
That we hope they'll be.
I guess they will be no matter what. So,
for me, in this season, it has really been helping them
to take ownership of their responsibilities,
their choices, their schoolwork.
I am trying to step away from them being dependent on me
and help them to become truly independent
with me being alongside them as a counselor.
And I'm not leaving them, coach.
- Coach, yeah.
- But there's just this ownership that I desire
for them to take over their life as a whole.
- Yes, yeah, that is the transition
if you will, into adulthood.
- Yeah, yeah.
- So, it's almost like we're dealing
with two transitions you know,
it's like elementary and middle school years.
There's a transition now into high school
which will then be also a transition into adult.
So there are lots of transitions in there.
- Yeah, and I think just these high school years is really
when they need to start taking those steps
to owning their decisions and all the things, so-
- Yeah. - I think
that's the hierarchy of that umbrella
that all these other pieces practically are under.
- Yes, yes.
So let's talk about some of those practical pieces.
And let me just mention something,
we are not going to be talking about grades
and transcripts and all those details.
Those formalities and how it all fits with
a Charlotte Mason education,
you can find in Your Questions Answered: High School.
It's a great resource and it gives all those details.
It also talks a little bit about what we're going
to be discussing here.
So let's talk about how this idea
of giving them responsibility,
making that transition, applies to independent work.
I think when the children start out in the early grades,
we're doing basically all the work together.
And then, over the years, over the grades, very slowly
and gradually, Charlotte worked it in
to her methods that you're starting
to turn over a little bit more and a little bit more,
and a little bit more as independent work.
- Mm-hmm.
- But what are some of the things we need
to keep an eye on as we're giving
that independent work to them?
- I think that one of the first things
that will be noticeable is their character.
I think that the hard things don't necessarily make
the character, they reveal the character.
So as they're challenged with things that feel harder
or seem harder, they may just want to say,
"I don't want to do that."
Or they- - Mm-hmm.
- I'm just saying you'll really start
to notice things in their personality
and their character.
So, I have one child that will rise to that occasion,
like if you give her an assignment,
no matter the difficultly,
she may not like the newness of it
but she really wants to do well.
And then, I have another child
that would just rather not do it.
But he's fine with the way it's always been done,
why change it?
So, there's, I think pieces that will start manifesting
that will give you an insight to maybe things you need
to work on or discussions you need to have.
So, as workload is increased
or as you assign more independent work
and maybe even give them deadlines,
however you start leveling up those high school classes,
I think it's really wise to keep an eye on their responses
and their follow-through,
so that way, at different times you can address those.
Just because again,
if you're keeping the big picture in mind
that you're hopefully raising young adults,
those conversations have to happen.
And you don't necessarily know what conversations need
to happen until you start noticing the way
that they either become complacent or lazy,
so you need to have your eyes on not just the content
and their abilities,
but what you're seeing revealed from their hearts.
- That's a good point.
So many times, when the children are younger,
you see peeks into their personality,
but it's developing all of those years.
- Yes, yes, yeah.
And so, really in those young adult years is
when it's starting to really shine through in many areas.
- Yeah, and it may be great.
And you're like, yes.
Or you may be like, where did I go wrong?
- I think it is important though.
Like you said, to distinguish between personality
and character. - Yeah, yeah.
- Because that child might have
the exact same personality you do.
Well, not exact, but very close.
And that's either going to give you an empathy
or it's going to rub you the wrong way
but we need to distinguish between,
is this child just a naturally laid-back personality?
Or is it laziness of character?
- Yeah, and it helps you determine how to coach.
- Yes.
- And I think that's an important part
of this transition in high school is
if our goal is for them to own their responsibilities
and their decisions then, I don't want to say unfortunately,
but the work has to come in from us
and it's a different type of parenting that has to happen.
So, it's also a transition for us.
- Yes, absolutely.
- Oh, man, it's difficult. - Absolutely.
It is, it is.
But it's so important.
And it's a wonderful example
of how God always brings new situations into our lives
that I'm not going to say force us because it's our choice,
but they greatly encourage us to lean more heavily on Him.
- Yeah, prune. (laughs) - Yes, pruning.
Yeah, pruning away that self-sufficiency
or that feeling in us of, "Oh, I've got this,
I've been doing this so long."
And now we have a new sense of, "I need you, help."
- Yeah.
And I think that's, again, going back
to that heart component of giving them a vision
for their own life.
So it's hard to ask a 17-year-old,
"What do you want to do in your career, what's your vision?
It's hard for them to even want to answer that.
I mean, I'm an adult, and sometimes
I have a hard time answering.
And the Lord changes things
but I'm just saying like-
- Some children will know
from the time they're 12, they know.
Other children will struggle, yeah.
- But to give them a vision for serving the Lord
and to seeking counsel and to be open to, like you said,
the different opportunities.
So again, it's that heart issue.
And that starts with the exposure of all
the things they learn in high school.
There's going to be a taste of harder math.
There's going to be a taste of different types of sciences.
There's just all this feast that's in front of them.
And so, as they're being exposed
to all those different beautiful subjects,
the conversations that get paired
with that can help give them direction and a vision.
For instance, science is not my favorite subject
and so we outsourced that.
And my daughter, I didn't want my negative view
of science to influence her.
I wanted her to have a good objective teacher and,
I wanted it to be a healthy thing for her.
And so through
the different sciences she's had in high school,
she's enjoyed it.
She's enjoyed the projects and the different studies
but she just told me yesterday,
she's like, "Mom, I never want to do science."
And again,
as much as she has thrived in it,
she's realized it is not her thing.
It is not something she wants
to advance in in college or careers her in any way.
And I'm like, "Great, that's helpful."
- Perfect, yeah.
- So, even just her being exposed
to these beautiful subjects but having the mindset
to see, "Hmm, would I really want
this in my life later on?"
So, just teaching her to have that ownership over
the science subject.
Does that make sense? - Yes, absolutely.
- So, even though, in some ways,
the feast of high school can be intimidating
if you keep that perspective that it's
these beautiful touches that, again,
maybe they'll click with something or the idea of,
this is something they want to further study.
It's just, I just feel it's naturally what should happen.
I mean, that's why we give them that feast is
to see how it resonates with them
but then the heart issue of them soaking it in
to say, "Hmm, this is something I want in my life,"
kind of thing, later on.
Obviously, you have to have it now, but-
- But the same thing applies
to the personality, we were talking about before
where you are learning about their personalities
and you're discussing it with them.
So, when we talk about Charlotte Mason
and the areas of knowledge she talked about,
we usually just limited to the three:
Knowledge of God, Knowledge of the Universe,
and Knowledge of Mankind,
but there was a fourth knowledge she talked about
that was Knowledge of Yourself.
And that's so important,
especially in those young adult years.
So the independent work can make those personality traits
and character traits bubble up.
We can discuss that because that then is also going
to help them know what direction they might want to head,
what would be a good fit for the way that God has made them.
- Right, it's also a great way when we see
their personality surfacing and their character surfacing
to know which habits we need to work on.
- Yes, because that has so much to do with character.
- Yes. - Yes.
Yes, and it's one of those things where
for so long, they're dependent on us
to teach them those habits and be like, "You know what,
you should really work on this habit."
And they don't really have a choice
because we do it together.
- Right, right.
- But that transition for those high school years
is they need to take ownership of, "You know what,
I have a bad habit, how do I fix it?
Because my mom's not always going to be next
to me telling me what to do."
- Or I want to do this in my life.
My life would be so much better if I had this good habit.
- Yeah, like cleaning your room
or doing your laundry or studying.
- Yeah, exactly.
So, how do I instill this good habit?
Mom always helped me with it before.
Can I do it by myself?
And that's where it's so important.
I feel like I'm holding up books all the time, but hang on.
- Yeah.
- The Laying Down The Rails For Yourself book is written
so that the parent and the child,
the young adult age child can read it together,
and learn how to implement good habits for yourself.
It's such an important part of it.
- Yes, and I think it's very interesting
because some of the habits that I see in my older children,
my young adults, I could have a list of saying,
"Oh, they should work on this, this, and this,"
but I've got to respect them enough to know
to trust their conviction of heart,
for what habits they feel like they need to improve on.
So again, it's a discussion of me lovingly telling them,
"You know, I feel like this is a strength,
you're doing great.
I feel like this is a weakness,
so what do you think we can do
or what do you think you can do to improve it?"
But then that conversation has the other side of the coin
where she may come to me and say, "I respect you.
I do see those weaknesses,
but this is what I feel really convicted about
what habit I need to work on right now"
Again, that's part of that transition
of respecting them as a young adult
and keeping my prayer life
like it should over them.
- Ramp it up. - Yeah, oh, goodness.
Yes, so I've got to be able to let that go
and trust them and let them make that decision and-
- Trust that is God working in their hearts.
- Yeah, yeah.
- That's our prayer really is that their relationship
with God will be strong enough
that He will do His work in their hearts.
They will recognize that work in His heart, in their hearts.
And that will be most important to them.
- Right, right, so my tendency is
when I see them struggle, let me take it back.
Let me help you let's fix it.
That kind of thing.
But that's not always the best option.
We were talking about-
- Monkeys, monkeys. - Monkeys.
And I don't necessarily know why,
but if you compare monkeys as your responsibilities,
we want to continually give those monkeys
to grab onto our children's backs, where they should be.
But then we have the tendency
to let them jump back onto us and just pile them on so-
- Especially, if we see that child struggling.
- Yes.
- To try and train this one monkey and it's not cooperating.
It's like, "Oh, well, let me just help you with that."
But that's not helping the child.
- Right, right, so there's just always
this constant struggle with monkeys, if you will,
of whose back they're on,
and the mothering instinct is, "Let me take it,
let me do it for you."
But that's not always the best.
- Yeah, instead we need to say,
"Okay, let's talk about some ways
that you can get this monkey under control and how
you can train it to work in your life.
And I'll help you, I will coach you,
but I'm not taking it back.
That's your monkey now."
That's the hard part. - Yeah.
- And that can apply to your independent work,
setting up your daily schedule
and how that fits in with the family.
Because you're still part of a family.
We want to respect that you have longer work,
that you have more independent work
but you are still part of our family.
And that extends to outside responsibilities,
jobs, outside classes, co-ops, all of those areas.
As you said at the beginning,
it's transitioning into giving
the child those responsibilities.
We're not just going to gather up all the monkeys
and dump it all at once.
- Even though sometimes we want to.
(laughing)
- But that's what we mean by transition.
You're doing this a little at a time as
the child is ready for it and covering it all in prayer,
and coaching as you go along,
not just "Here you go, sink, or swim."
But we're coaching as we go.
That's the big transition.
Whether we are transitioning into the high school years
or transitioning into the adult years,
that's the key to keep in mind.
I'm so glad you brought up the monkeys.
- It's kind of crazy.
- But it sure helps the picture.
That is a wonderful picture we're all going to hang onto.
- Yeah.
- So, thanks.
If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to subscribe
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And I'll see you next time.
(gentle music)