This is Rummy’s Corner.
What if…
Felix Trinidad vs Shane Mosley?
Welcome to the latest edition of the Dream Fight series.
A hypothetical fantasy match-up between Tito and Sugar Shane is one that potentially could
have happened.
But it never did.
The closest it ever came to happening would have been back in November 2004.
Trinidad was planning to make a comeback, and he and Mosley had tentatively reached
an agreement.
There was one man standing in the way - Ronald Winky Wright.
The rest is history.
Winky derailed plans of a Trinidad-Mosley showdown, and Trinidad instead made his triumphant
return against Ricardo Mayorga.
Mosley would again lose in an immediate rematch against Winky, and Trinidad himself was promptly
sent back into retirement following his lopsided loss at the hands of the very same Winky Wright.
But by that time in 2004-05, both Trinidad and Mosley were well past their best fighting
days.
The more interesting scenario where the fight could have conceivably happened would have
been in the year 2000, when Mosley and Trinidad were both undefeated and considered among
the P4P elite in the sport.
But Tito moved to 154 in March of that year, three months before Shane had his breakout
win at 147 against Oscar De La Hoya.
The timing wasn’t quite right in terms of their respective career trajectories.
Trinidad won his first world championship in June 1993 when he won the IBF welterweight
title after scoring a 2nd round knockout against Maurice Blocker.
Tito made 15 consecutive title defenses, the last of which was a unification bout against
fellow undefeated welterweight champion, Oscar De La Hoya.
That was in September 1999, and that would be Trinidad’s final fight at 147.
Mosley won his first world championship in August 1997 when he was awarded a 12 round
unanimous decision against Phillip Holiday to earn the IBF lightweight title.
In less than 2 years Mosley had made 8 consecutive title defenses, and then he made the jump
up two weight classes for his welterweight debut against (Wilfredo) Rivera in September
1999.
Mosley’s victory against Rivera happened exactly one week after Trinidad outpointed
De La Hoya.
In other words, Trinidad’s last fight at 147 happened exactly one week before Mosley’s
first fight at 147.
In terms of common opponents, the 4 notable examples are Winky Wright, Fernando Vargas,
Ricardo Mayorga, and Oscar De La Hoya.
As mentioned, they were both past their best in their respective losses against Winky Wright.
The same can be said for their respective victories against Mayorga, and in the case
of Vargas, Mosley had a pair of stoppage victories against him when they were both past it, but
Tito on the other hand, he defeated Vargas in dramatic fashion in a high profile 154
unification battle between undefeated junior middleweights.
So they were a combined 0-3 against Winky, and a combined 3-0 against both Mayorga and
Vargas, with Mosley being the one who fought a pair of matches against each of those guys.
The most interesting common opponent worth considering is of course De La Hoya.
Trinidad faced De La Hoya in September 1999.
It was a unification battle between undefeated welterweight champions.
De La Hoya outboxed Trinidad for much of the contest where he utilized his superior quickness.
But during the later rounds, De La Hoya took his foot off the gas, and Trinidad started
closing the gap much more effectively.
Down the final stretch Trinidad was outworking and outhustling Oscar and at the end of 12
rounds, Trinidad was awarded a razor thin majority decision.
The verdict was somewhat controversial, but it was close and competitive.
Mosley faced De La Hoya in June 2000.
This was a hell of a fight between two skilled and speedy boxers, and it was a very closely
contested encounter.
Throughout the first half of the action, Mosley had an advantage when he was getting off first
and putting together some sweet combinations.
But Oscar held a slight tactical advantage over the first 6 rounds.
Mosley was able to assert himself more effectively in the second half of the contest, where he
was generally outworking De La Hoya.
Mosley was awarded a split decision victory and there was no controversy in this one.
But when the two had a rematch at 154 in September 2003, Mosley was again victorious, this time
winning a 12 round unanimous decision.
The verdict in the rematch was controversial, where many believed Oscar deserved to win.
I am not sure if the fights against De La Hoya tell us a whole lot about who would win
a potential showdown between Trinidad and Mosley, but at the very least, I think they
indicate this would have produced an intriguing clash of styles at a time when both Trinidad
and Mosley were firing on all cylinders.
If we could have somehow gotten a Trinidad-Mosley fight sometime before Felix lost to Bernard
and Shane lost to Vernon - it could have been something special.
If this Trinidad-Mosley fantasy fight were to ever have happened, it theoretically could
have taken place at both 147 and 154, and I think where it happens might well better
help determine the outcome.
We will assume the best version of each boxer at each weight class.
Trinidad is best known for his body of work at welterweight, where he was undefeated and
racked up 15 consecutive title defenses.
But in my opinion, I actually think Trinidad may have displayed his best form during his
brief visit at 154, prior to his jump to middleweight.
Trinidad had just 3 fights at 154 during that stretch, all of them in the year 2000.
The big standout win was when he emerged victorious in his dramatic battle of attrition against
Fernando Vargas.
On the other hand, Mosley never had much success at 154.
His biggest victory was the rematch against De La Hoya, but again - many if not most observers
believe Shane lost that fight.
By this point in Shane’s career, he was in the midst of transitioning and fine-tuning
his style.
He was no longer the same flashy speedster looking to get off first and open up with
blazing combinations.
By the time Mosley made the move to junior middle, he was getting away from that style
that relied on his sheer athleticism.
He began loading up more on his punches and was less apt to open up with flurries.
In short I think Trinidad carried the weight better and he was more successful at 154.
Tito was simply more of a force at 154.
Now that doesn’t mean that Mosley couldn’t maybe edge out a decision like he did in the
De La Hoya rematch.
But I think Trinidad being naturally just a little bigger plays in his favor.
So my official prediction at 154 is a decision victory for Felix Trinidad.
At 147 I think it’s a much better and far more entertaining proposition.
Trinidad was undefeated at welter, and he got those 15 consecutive title defenses over
a span of 6+ years.
And Trinidad arguably improved throughout his championship reign.
So prime 147 pound Trinidad, I think was from the later years in the 90s.
On the other hand Mosley lost a few fights at welterweight.
He lost a pair of decisions against Vernon Forrest, and then later in his career he suffered
other losses against Miguel Cotto, Floyd Mayweather Jr, and Manny Pacquiao.
He did, however, have a turn-back-the-clock type of victory against Antonio Margarito
in the midst of that later stretch, but all of that was after Shane was clearly past his
best at the weight.
So Shane’s best form at 147 was from the time he first moved up until the back-to-back
losses he suffered at the hands of The Viper.
So at quick glance, Trinidad had all those title defenses and never lost at the weight.
But Mosley was something special during that stretch, back when his phenomenal athleticism
allowed him to unleash a slew of punches in a fast fluid rhythm.
Sugar Shane was exceptionally fast, threw explosive combinations, and he packed a mean
punch.
Stylistically Trinidad’s run at 154 was basically a continuation of what he was doing
at 147.
But the same cannot be said of Mosley, who was boxing at a higher all around level in
his first reign at welter.
I personally believe that Trinidad would have a lot of problems coping with Shane’s use
of quickness and angles.
Things get tricky when you consider the Forrest fights, particularly the first bout.
This was prime Shane, and honestly, after being twice bested by Vernon, Shane was never
quite the same again.
If Vernon’s power and consistency caused Mosley so many problems, there is reason to
believe that Trinidad can do the same.
But I don’t think it is as simple as that.
To be sure, like The Viper, Trinidad was a very technical boxer who was very methodical
in his approach.
But I think that Forrest was more technical, more versatile, and had a more well rounded
overall skill set.
Vernon was also incredibly consistent with that piston-like jab.
In short, I do not believe Mosley would have the same degree of difficulty against Trinidad
that he had against Forrest.
Trinidad himself may have possibly matched up better against Vernon than Shane did, that’s
a Dream Fight for another day.
But either way - I remain unconvinced that Tito would neutralize Mosley as effectively
as The Viper.
The fights that Trinidad lost of course were all north of 147.
But the common theme in Trinidad’s losses against Winky Wright and Bernard Hopkins,
as well as his victory against Oscar - the common theme is they all disrupted Trinidad’s
rhythm, and Tito is the type of fighter who needed to discover his rhythm in order to
be effective.
Winky, Bernard, Oscar - they all had success disrupting Tito’s rhythm, although they
all went about it a little differently.
In the case of Oscar in particular, it was a blend of quickness and movement that helped
offset Tito’s rhythm, so it’s not inconceivable that Mosley could disrupt Trinidad in similar
fashion.
Mosley also had the speed, power and timing that he could possibly drop Felix.
And Trinidad likewise had the power and timing that he could drop Mosley.
But both of these guys were tough and durable warriors, so even if either or both men suffered
a knockdown along the way, I would fully expect this one to go the distance.
I truly believe this one would have been a big crowd pleaser, and at the end of the day,
I think Shane’s advantages in raw athleticism would ultimately provide him with the ability
to neutralize Tito’s rhythm slightly more often than not.
So for my official pick at 147, I like Sugar Shane Mosley by a razor thin 12 round decision.
But what the hell do I know?
So who do you think would win a Dream Fight between prime Felix ‘Tito’ Trinidad and
Sugar Shane Mosley?
Please share your thoughts in the comments section.
Thank you very much for watching, I hope you enjoyed, and have a wonderful night.
This is Rummy’s Corner.