OPRAH WINFREY: I found this so interesting,
your quote from Nietzsche, who wrote about how people can
identify their calling in life.
He wrote, "The way to discover what you were put on Earth
for is to go back into your past,
list the times you felt most fulfilled,
and then see if you can draw a line through them.
What have you truly loved thus far?
What has ever uplifted your soul?
What has dominated and delighted it at the same time?
Assemble these revered objects in a row before you,
and perhaps they will reveal a law by their nature
and their order--
the fundamental law of your very self."
I've always said if you look back at your life,
and connect the dots, there is a pattern of the things
that made you feel fulfilled.
DAVID BROOKS: Yeah, I've loved that.
OPRAH WINFREY: This is the same thing he's saying, right?
DAVID BROOKS: I love that line, "the law of your very self."
OPRAH WINFREY: So when you did this,
you did this exercise, what did you find out?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, I find how aesthetic it
is that-- like I read a book when I was seven
called "Paddington the Bear."
And at that moment, I wanted to become a writer.
There's just-- because I love the feel of it.
I have a quote in there from Annie Diller,
who was interviewing a painter.
She said, why did you go into painting?
And the woman just said, "I love the smell of paint."
And some people, you just find that thing
where you feel at home, and trust the aesthetic sensibility
of it.
OPRAH WINFREY: Well, one of my favorite, favorite lines--
you write so beautifully all the time.
On Page 115, you write, "We bury the faint crackling
of our inner fire underneath other, safer noises."
I'm going to say that again, because it's
so beautifully written.
"We bury the faint crackling of our inner fire
underneath other, safer noises, and settle for a false life."
So how do we teach children and young people
not to bury the fire?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, one thing we can do
is put some rules around the phones.
OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah.
DAVID BROOKS: Because I think about--
OPRAH WINFREY: There has to be rules.
DAVID BROOKS: --how we communicate.
Talk about the heart and soul-- how much heart and soul
communication happens through a screen,
through the phone when we're texting?
I have a friend.
He has a rule for himself--
every morning before he looks at a screen,
he goes outside and looks at the sky for a few minutes,
just to--
OK, I'm going to look up.
And then he has a rule where he's
going to take one hour a day, one day a week, one, I think,
week a year--
no screens.
Just Sabbath-- he's going to create Sabbaths.
So that's one of the things I think we can do.