Hi guys Rebecca's on here, this is part 2 of episode 1
Why is it so difficult to negotiate with a narcissist? This is part of a
Five-part series that I'm doing with. Dr. Romani the foremost expert in
narcissism we've joined the legal and the psychological
Power legal power psych together to make a power team to bring you guys the best content on
how to negotiate with the narcissist so this is part 2 of episode 1 why is
negotiating with the narcissist so damn difficult
so enjoy this and if you haven't watched part 1 make sure you go back and do that now and if you haven't
subscribed to my channel make sure you do that now because you definitely
Will not want to miss part 3 make sure you watch till the end of this video
So that when you get to part 3 you're all caught up on what we talked about in this episode
So now without further ado enjoy the episode
Before we get into deep cuz I could literally ask you
I mean like all these questions clients bring I've got to talk to your attorney
Got to talk to your attorney
But I always wonder in the back of my mind like what the answer to that is
it's part of this would be it also helps if we understand the types of narcissism and how they may play out in terms of
Negotiation. Okay, so
You know those of you who have watched my videos know that I've talked ad nauseam and read my books
It's all about the different types of narcissism and how they manifest
It does seem like there's going to be some similarities and differences on the basis of the type of narcissists. We're dealing with something
I've always wanted to bring home to everyone is the type of narcissists
Someone is often has a lot to do with the kind of day. They're having and by that I mean
Any narcissist who's having a good run of it? They're making a lot of money
They got the stuff they want they're getting the people they want
They're more most importantly they're getting the validation and the supply they want more often than not are going to present as grandiose
Narcissists life's going their way and so but some people just tend to be more of the grandiose
Narcissistic type and that's their baseline. Okay, we know that in general
People or narcissistic have empathy deficits so deeply entitled grandiose narcissist are obviously quite grandiose
They're arrogant. They have a propensity for rage. They do not regulate disappointment. Well, they're chronically seeking admiration
They're seeking validation
they are superficial and
They are and they are they have not only difficulty regulating their emotions
But they're also incredibly
Sensitive in the face of criticism they can dish it out
but they can't take it the
presentation of the grandiose narcissist then becomes someone who really is sort of like that person that kind of it can feel sleazy
salesman
Like it can be like I am the king of the world like it can be I've got all the answers
It could be annoying guy on the barstool or annoying gal on the barstool. All of that said what are the leading?
Tips you have with especially in a divorce setting of how to negotiate with a grandiose narcissist
Well, so the grandiose narcissist is going to do everything they can to keep control of the situation
So the first thing they're going to try to do is try to get rid of your lawyer
in some way because your lawyer is the person who is now between
The narcissist and the person who they want to control
Mm-hmm
and the lawyer now becomes the enemy because that's the person who's going to actually
Maybe expose the narcissist for whatever who or what they are or maybe?
be between them them getting the deal that they want or they may think then they should have and so they're gonna try to get
The person to meet at Starbucks, let's just meet at Starbucks, you know, we don't need lawyers
You know, so that's the the thing that they're gonna do. Okay, and and and they're gonna say your lawyer is just after the money
I've heard that you know
He or she whatever it is that they're they can possibly
Dream up and say that's what they're gonna say because they want you to get rid of the lawyer. Mm-hmm
so this helps people all the time is
You have three choices you can stay with this person then stay married to them, which I don't recommend
But I've got you know me y'all
can read my book and I got a whole bunch of videos telling you how to say if you need to stay because some people
Have to stay well. I don't recommend in the long run
I mean if you have to stay for kids or you have reasons or whatever
But in the long run you probably want to work this person out of your life
Number two is to take exactly what they want you to take with your pat on the head and walk away
But we already talked about that. Even if you didn't choose door number two, it's gonna be a shifting thing
it's never gonna be exactly because if they think that you're just taking what they're offering then they're like well
maybe I should offer less or whatever because they just want to mess around with you and then door number three is
You know, you're gonna have to fight up against this person
So, you know don't don't have those meetings alone because you know that this person manipulates you you know, the person's a liar
You know that this person is gonna stay and do whatever they can to get what they want or to manipulate you
So don't do it don't have those conversations and what I recommend for people to do in those situations
Just just say I don't know. I'm just talking to my lawyer blame it all on your lawyer
Let your lawyer be the fall person, you know, I don't know. I just want what's fair
I just want you know, what what my rights are and I'm gonna let the lawyer sort it out. Mm-hmm
That's what I suggest that people do. So it's I mean all of my work working with
Individuals who are experiencing narcissistic abuse or in narcissistic relationships. My SIG's
Consistent, you know don't move away from a position as realistic expectations and radical acceptance
This person you're to the point you're now getting a divorce things have gotten so toxic and I have to say in
Narcissistic relationships people let things get a lot more toxic than they would in another relationship where they simply grown apart from someone
because that you've you've become so mentally confused and with a grandiose narcissist you're so used to being lorded over you're so
confused by the gaslighting, you know
people are
Randi of narcissists plays that game really really well and you're burned out so that idea of a Starbucks meeting is like, okay
Okay, fine, you're so exhausted, but then I say realistic expectations radical acceptance
This is a person who manipulate it's who they are
It's what they do just like a scorpion stings a narcissist manipulates and to have realistic expectations
That all of a sudden now that you filed for doors now, they're gonna become an angel
It's not how it's gonna go down. In fact, you're it's the opposite because you no longer have value to that narcissist
In fact, you're a liability
because as long as you were still in that narcissist world
And they thought that maybe they you were for them in some way or they you have some value to them
Then then they're sort of measured a little bit more
Yeah, but once you no longer have value you are now the enemy and so it is on and you know, we're in it
I think in a subsequent video we're gonna talk more about all the different kinds of things that they do in a divorce setting but
You know
It's you once you no longer have value to a narcissist
You are the enemy and I also have to say too though with a with a grandiose
Narcissist what people do need to be prepared for psychologically is it's not over like they're not just gonna start a fight
They're actually gonna try love bomb sequence - love bomb sequence 3 because in some it's not that they want you back
They may a lot of times grandiose narcissist care deeply about what they look like to the world
They want to look like the Christmas card. They want to be the happy family. They have a whole narrative around
I just want to be the happy feeling me this matters to me and you know
It's it's it's a whole shtick that they're selling to the world. So they want to keep that back, but it's also a game
It's can I lure the the rat out of its hole?
Can I bring this person back out? Its what it was from the jump. That's what I yes, which is
Get them to sign a postnup right now. Okay, you want me back? I'll come back. Mm-hmm sign a post-nuptial agreement. Hmm. That's great
Perfect. No, we know how they're typically gonna be out. They're not gonna say
Yeah, they're not going to now you write it now. You've called their book
That's right, and they play on that vulnerability and they say really a post-up
So this really was just about money and that's when the other person the non
Narcissistic person who has already been so beaten down by this who's already
Vulnerable to this who already has issues around self-doubt confusion all the things that happened in narcissistic abuse
No, this wasn't about money and they find themselves getting into the thickets and can often get pulled and they want to seem noble
No, this was never about money. This was about you're treating me with respect and
Then I've seen many people at that point get sucked right back in with the grandiosity
See that what's wrong with it being about money if you're entitled to it
And there's the dirt even that lawyer and the psychologist
You're entitled to
don't
Be embarrassed about ask right for what the law is providing for you
But here I this is where I would take a slightly different stance as a psychologist
I think what a lot of people say is that yes, it's about money. This is a marriage marriage is really a contract marriage
Really is a contract. Stop romanticizing. It's a contract
But marriage is a contract that that they are entitled to it
But I do think that people who have been in long-term relationships with grandiose narcissist
It is really about can you?
Please reflect on what you just did to me for the last 5 10 15 20 25 30 years
You know what? They'd say. I walk away from 10 billion dollars the best story for you with that
the best story
So I was representing a guy who was number two in the largest development company in Florida
And you know, he was one of these
Narcissistic personality types who came in and you know any room in your retainer or and whatever and I was like no
But you know if you want to go on down the road fine
But him, so I didn't think but he was trying to get me to reduce my retainer. So we get to
Mediation and it's like 9 o'clock at night and we're all settled on everything and and he's agreed to pay her around
$250,000 a year in alimony
For that and he was like 55 years old. So just for easy math, you know, it's at least for the next 10 years
Because when you retire at 65, you could potentially ask for a reduction
But so we're talking about two and a half million dollars, okay
We're getting ready to sign
mediator comes into my office and says or to the conference room where I was with my client and says I need to talk to
You I have a very unusual request, but I want to run it past you before I run a pastor client
So she pulled he pulls me aside and said the wife
Says that she will waive alimony wave
two-and-a-half million dollars
if he
Apologizes to her for how he treated her during the marriage
And guess what? He didn't want to do it
And there it is
There it is, you know, so I made him yeah, yeah, I'm like, yes you will
get over there and
so he went over there and apologized and
She waived alimony and that was that but it was that was worth more to her
Right, and she knew also that
He wouldn't want to do it. Right and so here's where it's akin
I was like, I'm gonna put the psychologist hat on here's which is there is something unsatisfying about that
He didn't want to apologize. It wasn't a real apology
And one thing we do know in the world of narcissism is a narcissist apology is it's it's worthless. It's less than worthless
It's the gum on your shoe
Because it's manufactured it's somebody saying just for two and a half million bucks say sorry. That's not an apology
That's a you know, that's activist his attorney. I'm like right all day exactly exactly attorney
I'd have been like you're not asking for that
No way and as her psychologist
I say you just bought yourself another 10 years of healing because you debt wasn't an apology. I
Think that the struggle becomes you know, and again this is where it's interesting to have the lawyer talk to psychologists. Is that when the
apology feels not authentic
the person says
You know, what was that? I'll say it was nothing. It was you know, it was window dressing
It's very difficult for a narcissistic individual to apologize
Because of the shame factor because of the insecurity factor because of the lack of capacity for them to exercise
Empathy right they what he does. Not that client of yours. He doesn't believe he caused her pain, right?
He doesn't he just wanted his money. Okay?
She was in pain and the other person didn't acknowledge it
It's looking into the mirror that doesn't look back and that's that's there to wit is the conundrum where I might say
Okay, if you you know, I would tell somebody
get money that least you can get the therapy because
Hey from my perspective as his lawyer my job was to advocate for him him, right? So it wasn't my job to say no
Right to that. It was my job to say get your butt in there and apologize. Right, right
I mean
You know because that's the kind of thing, right?
he would have come back to me on later and said why didn't make me that's right and my and exactly and Billiam you but
My job is to tell that woman you didn't get a real apology. What can we learn from this relationship? She probably regretted it
Maybe I don't knows what her financial situation is, you know?
Maybe who knows what? I don't know her mindset is but at the end of the day I would have said, you know
How do we help you learn from this you never pick someone like this again? You know, that's really what it is
They do people do pick so
You know just as a twist here because we do talk about
while the grandiose narcissist is the most common the one we see the most
There are these other subtypes what we often call the covert or vulnerable narcissus
This is what I often view is the more victimized narcissist when you meet them, they're often a little bit more sad they're softer
They're not as in-your-face. In fact, a lot of people want to rescue covert narcissist
So like ah, if this person just got a break, they'd be fine. What they don't realize is right under the surface is this
tremendous amount of contempt
Yeah contempt for other people contempt that other people have it easier
contempt at life didn't go on jealousy and envy and all these kinds of emotions and the
Insecurity and the covert vulnerable narcissus is much greater. Yes, would you say then?
Are there any other unique elements of negotiation then that come up with covert narcissists?
well
So they're not gonna be as in-your-face and it's not going to be as odd obvious to the divorce lawyers or to the judge
so the judge might say
oh this poor person and and full everybody and especially because
Narcissus the the covert narcissist tends to be more passive aggressive
And so it's easier to explain away the things that they will do, you know
So they they might you know inadvertently send an email to somebody Oh
Oops, it was an accident and you know that it wasn't an accident because you've been living with this for years. So they're much more
Adept at hiding
The kinds of things that they're doing. So in my opinion, they're actually more toxic and a lot of women. Yeah, absolutely
because it's it's gonna be harder to get the system and the people in the system to
Understand the personality type that you're dealing with
It's you know, if you're having a parental evaluation or a custody evaluation and done, you know, they may fool that psychology
Was so horrible to me and I can never catch a break and you know, I want to work
But I'm so sick all the time and I always feel terrible and you know
And so they're they're actually much more difficult in the divorce setting and they'll still do the same kinds of things
This triangulation is a biggie with with covert narcissists. Let's get the whole world on my side
Let's get everybody to see yeah, absolutely much of a victim
I am and how horrible this other person is and they're actually very good at getting the person. Yes. They are
Getting people to believe them and leaving the person who has been victimized by them looking like a bad guy
I know this person actually has been enduring so much when you've been in a relationship with a covert
Narcissus and everyone's like why are you being so hard on him or her you know?
what will come on like cut and it there's a lot of gaslighting by other people that happens in these relationships where
Especially when it's careening towards a divorce. So it's it. Yeah, it's definitely a
Very very toxic dynamic. Thanks for watching this part 2 of
this episode on why is
negotiating with a narcissist so difficult and
Make sure to subscribe and hit the little notification bellow so that you will be notified when I upload
part 3 of this episode and
The rest of the series on how to negotiate with a narcissist that I am doing with dr
Romany and if you haven't already grabbed my crush my negotiation prep worksheet
You definitely want to do that now and remember that today is a great day to start negotiating your best life