do you think ethereum and crypto will continue to grow and gain usership within the next five
to ten years i think that depending on the market conditions i mean like we were really on the press
and if we do get down into the weeds with like economic world war three continuing like we've
seen where china's stopping exporting fertilizer and microchips and ukraine and russia are in a
war and that war maybe spreads and like you know the wheat harvest is going to cause starvation all
over the world i mean like gas prices are going to keep going up europe just said they were going
to sanction russia which is basically kicking like shooting themselves in the head because
they rely on russia for between 30 to 70 percent of their natural gas and coal um so that's gonna
cause a run-up in the price of oil as inflation continues in the west and gets crazier overseas
i mean you see sri lankans right now are like revolting and like burning down the houses of
politicians and like killing politicians and [ __ ] because they ran out of fuel and they're
running out of food chinese people are like starving to death in shenzhen there's a lot of
serious [ __ ] going on in the world and the macro markets are still overvalued like this the s p 500
came down a lot a lot of tech stocks came off their highs by quite a bit they look like [ __ ]
coin charts peloton and netflix and stuff like that but most average people haven't felt that yet
because yeah we've seen we've seen a bit of high inflation people are starting to feel the food
rising food and fuel costs but we haven't really experienced what nigerians and lebanese people and
you know people like that have experienced so we still have monetary privilege here
if we if we actually get to a point where there's a sovereign debt crisis and the global bond market
really rolls over and there's actually like no bid for new treasuries i mean look the us debt is 30
trillion dollars right now there's nine trillion dollars of maturing debt in the next 24 months
like that's insane it's basically ponzinomics it's like uh it's like almost like a d5 ponzi coin
like the federal reserve has to buy treasuries currently to sustain the demand for
you know the congress voting to have all these uh deficits so like if you have another 10 trillion
dollars of treasuries that need to get issued when there's problems globally with money and
economic war is happening and like people are starving i don't think we're going to see starving
people in the u.s and canada but like you are already seeing like baby formula shortages in the
u.s there's a lot of [ __ ] happening in the world man and the housing market hasn't even come off
yet like in toronto the housing bubble is so crazy in toronto it's one of the worst in the world
even in my small area i live two and a half hours from toronto and my house cost me 270 000
to build in 2010. so and and at that time it was 270 thousand dollars i thought like i was getting
ripped off i'm like this bubble is crazy just like i thought with ethereum i was like this this
freaking thing is too expensive it's overvalued i should be paying like 230 for this thing maybe i'm
getting ripped off 10 20 the housing market has to come down well it turns out when you
pump trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars into the system and you suppress interest
rates and keep them low and you create tons of credit through the commercial banking system and
big big money gets to access more money that's getting created through loans
they're going to deploy that money and it's going to cause inflation of asset bubbles so
i didn't recognize that before but now i do kind of recognize that like i was talking about this
in january when everybody was saying oh this new alt season is going to happen and bitcoin's 200k
east to 10k i was tweeting like [ __ ] her up guys like this is this shit's about to hit the fan like
there's this is not going to be pretty over the next six months because as well well not quite to
that extent about like after 2021 i was actually identifying like okay we're gonna have a dot-com
2.0 bubble because look at all the money getting poured into this stuff through 2021 i've had like
pretty good calls at the bottoms of like when we had the um dumps off the china
mining ban and things like that i was also watching like andreessen horowitz raised 200
billion dollars and eos is doing a nine billion dollar spec and like all this other like you know
all these celebrities getting in and chilling all this stuff i'm like this is gonna blow up we're
we're not done yet we're going to go back up it's going to be crazy everybody get ready for that
but i was also at the same time saying but the [ __ ] is about to hit the fan in the macro market
so when that does get ready for 20k bitcoin and destruction 90 wrecked in all all coins because
when the [ __ ] hits the fan in the macro market nothing is going to be saved and i was i was kind
of like i was i misplayed the ethereum price call i did call the alt coins and the nfts and
i was tweeting about the nft bubble before most people even i was buying crypto punks in 2020
like for three e's oh that was lately i mean i saw people who are stupid they're gonna start
freaking valuing jpegs so i was like i i can identify when when shit's about to go
and deploy a little bit of capital while also being critical of it because i know it's nonsense
in the end it's going to get people wrecked so i think like that question about where we're going
with growth all the things i just said about the macro conditions if that doesn't get solved like
if if it continues on the trend we're on right now we're going to see sovereign debt crisis we're
going to see the nasdaq and s p 500 continue to fall we're going to see the housing market crash
50 percent maybe like some people say i'm crazy for saying that high but some people are saying
20 30 percent my house where i live right now like it went from 270 to 950 000 it's almost like
what's that a three x or something in ten years and it was it was a 2x in the last three years
that's just craziness like that there's no way that's sustainable so like in the world where
we get into a recession or we get into stagflation or at worst we get into a global depression
or on the other side we get into a hyperinflationary collapse because they
they can't stop you know printing and they start doing ubi and debt forgiveness and all this stuff
something is something's going to happen this is not just going to be like the last 10 years it's
just craziness the way where we are right now and in that world i think that we're going to
see less and less people wanting to give a crap about d5 and ethereum and nfts and
because in the end the fundamental thing that you really care about in that scenario is just money
like you just want to save your value you don't want to be and the reason why i think this is
because for the last four or five years i've been monitoring the search traffic for key search terms
in crypto when i kind of make my decisions about trends because i'd like to analyze like is alt
season gonna start because i want to deploy if all season's gonna start i'm gonna make some bitcoin
or is are we gonna have continued bear market and so one of the things i look at is like the
google search trends and i look for patterns in the google search trends and i look all over the
world and see like where are people searching for what so right now but based on volume tvl all that
stuff you can see there's a decline in interest in a lot of this stuff but even search traffic
if you look at um for the last say like even through all through the bear market in nigeria
they were looking for bitcoin so it's like if you look at the usa and canada
and pretty much everywhere you can see like bitcoin spikes in 2017 when the fomo happened
and then crypto spikes right after it ethereum kind of spikes but never really gets anywhere
and then it all shrinks off a cliff into into 2019 there was another spike when the plus
token ponzi was happening because they were that was super popular and the spike was more
so in asian countries because that's where the plus stock and ponzi was most prevalent
and that pumped us bitcoin went up to 13k if you remember and then eath went up too
and everybody's like yeah it's starting the institutions the institutions are here
but it was really just this freaking ponzi scheme that pumped everything in crypto and then it
crashed after they got arrested and they had to dump all their coins and then it took us a little
while but then gamestop you can see a massive spike in gamestop it got up to the same fever
pitch of bitcoin in 2017. dogecoin crazy spike up nfts had not as much of a spike but a good spike
ethereum never really had a spike and it was actually crypto this cycle all over the
world that was more search terms you know it wasn't ethereum d5 d5 never registered
nobody gives a [ __ ] about d5 in anywhere in the world people care about nfts crypto
ethereum a little bit d5 even less bitcoin is the big one like people care about bitcoin and that's
been for the last few years i have never seen anything spike above bitcoin except for nfts
in asia right now over the last two months it's insane in south korea in china and japan it's
fever pitch right now the nfts are going crazy right now in the asian countries i find that's
really interesting because like you don't see that level of crazy speculation happening in any of the
other countries or even here but like put that backdrop like all that stuff i just talked about
on the search volume for countries that have hyperinflationary currencies countries that
have financial oppression countries like nigeria 200 million people live in nigeria they've got a
super high inflation in their currency they need bitcoin like the people that live in nigeria
they're searching for bitcoin always when when you see the spikes in dogecoin and nfts and crypto and
gamestop in in nigeria they barely even register like those people that actually need bitcoin for
the utility of like saving and using it for protecting themselves against their government
and their currency they don't have the privilege to be able to go and speculate on [ __ ] coins
and go adopt the next trend of whatever it is so i really do think that as the as we continue in
this world of like more and more censorship potential stagflation or depression or like
even just not even depression just recession like put yourself back in the mindset of 2008 2009 if
you're listening to this and you're around then you know like you had it was the time where you
had to scrimp and save and you weren't probably spending a lot of money on extracurricular stuff
and people tend to go like they come back off the risk curve when the financial conditions are
not so frothy and when the wealth effect evaporates from having a real piece of real
estate that went up 3x in 10 years you feel rich most people the majority of their assets are their
home and if their homes up 3x they get a million dollar house they feel rich so they take money
and they go speculate they go buy things they go travel they upgrade their homes whatever they do
but when the market cools off like that and it starts to crash and gets into recession territory
you know i do fully expect to see the users of d5 bsc pancake swap unit swap like all the different
chains even if they're cheap solana everything i expect to see it come down as people care less
and less about speculative you know taking risk the only thing that i think will change that is
gaming because people even during 2008 2009 2010 loved playing games that's when the facebook game
triangle off it was crazy people look for edu they look for entertainment to escape their problems
so game fi game you know game tokens whatever i don't think people should necessarily be like
super like looking to invest in game tokens at high valuations but i do think that like
blockchains will be used for nfts long term for things like digital collectibles
digital game assets digital art i i i've no doubt that that's here to stay the idea of having
digital game assets is just here and it's never going to be put back in the box just like bitcoin
was never going to be able to put back in the box i think the problem is that people are selling
nfts as if it's this new technology that like is going to make them rich and disintermediate
the middleman and therefore they're fleecing a lot of people and people are getting wrecked
on investing in this stuff you should they shouldn't be looked at really as investments
they should be just looked at as a technology as a like a tool like a stable coin you know like
an nft that you buy from an influencer that you like will eventually everybody's going
to be using it like it's going to be like there's going to be trillions of nfts so
they will eventually will figure this out that this was a bubble the technology's interesting
we're building it on bitcoin there's nfts on the liquid network we have tarot coming out on the
lightning network like there's going to be digital art nfts on bitcoin there is already digital art
and ft's on counterparty with the rare pepes and stuff so it's going to get built on bitcoin but
it's going to be done i'm sure on solana and other chains too bsc like binance is not going anywhere
they've they're the biggest exchange so for your question i think i would answer like
and i want to remind you the question was um the question was do you think ethereum and crypto
will continue to grow and gain usership within the next five to ten years yeah so in this environment
over the next few years i don't think it's going to grow users i think what's going to grow users
in crypto and uh and maybe ethereum but i think more so off ethereum i think like the other
next layer next gen stuff is more suited for these types of use cases like games
i don't think d5 is going to get used very much at all ever i just don't think it's that interesting
i think the only thing interesting about d5 is like being able to take loans and do micro
loans and things like that i think all these ponzi schemes that are built with d5 protocols
are just going to prove to be just failures and just nobody's going to want to adopt that stuff
it's too risky and it doesn't make any sense all the yield is unsustainable
but the thing that people are going to always want to do is play games and have fun and if you can
do that on blockchains it does make sense that we would see that like wax actually is the most
used blockchain of any of them right now wax has more users and more transactions but nobody buys
wax coin really like wax coins wrecked nobody even knows about wax but wax has partnerships
with tops and all these like pretty pretty big companies another novogratz winner you know
so i do think that like you will see more users on crypto blockchains if you know if the federal
reserve comes in and starts printing and provides liquidity and we get another 10 20 trillion
dollars printed and the fed actually comes in and can stop this recession from happening
and they reinflate all the bubbles like the stock tech stocks start going again growth stocks
they solve the problems of the bond market look i i don't know what the likelihood of this
happening is um but if that happens then yeah i think there's going to be more fomo
you know because it'll be safe to go back out under the risk curve and then
there may be opportunity in crypto and buying coins and stuff because
we will never have reconciled there will be no capitulation there will be no reconciliation
people won't go back and look and say well maybe it was a mistake to value these things based on
utility and tvl and stuff but if over the next six months the fed six to 12 months they
the fed the treasury the commercial banks they all work together to like reinflate markets and
flood the flood the system with more cash and do more lending
i'm sure there's going to be opportunity to make money alpha over bitcoin by trading
cryptocurrencies in that environment if that doesn't happen i think they're going down another
50 60 70 80 percent like some of them are going to go down 95 99 you're gonna you're gonna have
like the dragon chains and the salt lendings and all these things of the last cycle where
everybody was like yeah these disney's involved with dragon chain and salt lending's the is the
first defile ending app whatever well the sec came in and had other words for those things
they had to do rescission they still exist but they're down like 99 there's going to be
a lot more stories like that for sure for sure i think we can both agree on what do you think
oh i think yeah i think ethereum and crypto will continue to gain usership within the next five
to 10 years i think like 2018 2019 2020 when i was really getting into crypto full-time
i wasn't sure and i was like listening to these bitcoin maximalists and they were making some
great points i think there's so many great bitcoin only like yourself people to go to podcasts and
such to get great bitcoin information but i found especially back then perhaps it's changed now
there was a lack of information when i came to crypto and you really didn't learn that much
and everything was just kind of like the same scam but dogecoin is the same as eth which is
the same as this um but i i think i mean i agree with travis kling just put out a great statement
uh press release and twitter thread talking about how he's going his fund uh whatever it's
called the kiki is going from what it just used to basically trade bitcoin and try and beat the
bitcoin market and now they're going um more into gaming like you mentioned and uh l ones
and just crypto in general i mean he laid out why the use case for crypto is more clear um so i'm
i think i'm hugely bullish on bitcoin i think that's going to continue to lead the market but i
think um ethereum and crypto are going to continue to gain usership in the next five to 10 years