TA-NEHISI COATES!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) >> Trevor: AH!
THIS IS IT, MAN.
>> I KNOW.
>> Trevor: THIS IS TOUGH FOR ME.
>> OKAY.
>> Trevor: YOU ARE ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE I KNOW.
>> I'M A GENIUS, IN FACT.
(LAUGHTER) YOU'RE IN TROUBLE.
>> Trevor: I'M IN SO MUCH TROUBLE RIGHT NOW.
LET'S GET INTO THIS, TA-NEHISI COATES.
QUESTION ONE, DO YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE?
(LAUGHTER) >> UM...
(LAUGHTER) NO.
>> Trevor: NO?
NO, OF COURSE NOT.
I HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT.
>> Trevor: I'M A BIG FAN OF YOUR BOOK, AND THEN YOU DON'T
EVEN TAKE A MOMENT OUT OF YOUR LIFE.
YOU MOVED TO PARIS, DIDN'T YOU?
>> THAT WAS THE MOMENT I WAS TAKING OUT OF MY LIFE TO MOVE,
MOVE TO PARIS.
>> Trevor: WHY?
O TAKE A MOMENT OUT OF MY LIFE.
THAT WAS EXACTLY IT.
THE BOOK CAME OUT, AND TO GET AWAY FOR A LITTLE BIT.
>> Trevor: AND TO GET BACK IN YOUR LIFE, YOU TRY TO LIGHTEN
THINGS UP WITH AN ARTICLE ABOUT MASS INCARCERATION IN AMERICA.
>> RIGHT.
>> Trevor: JUST TO LOOSEN UP.
RIGHT.
>> Trevor: EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS SUCH A BIG ISSUE.
I KNOW IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN IT, BUT EXPLAIN WHY MASS
INCARCERATION IS SUCH A BIG ISSUE.
>> AMERICA IS A COUNTRY FOUNDED ON THE NOTION OF LIBERTY BUT IT
IS THE MOST PROLIFIC JAILER IN THE WORLD.
AMERICANS INCARCERATE 700,000 OF OUR CITIZENS ARE INCARCERATED.
OUR NEXT COMPETITOR IS RUSSIA WITH AROUND 400,000.
>> Trevor: SO WE'RE BEATING RUSSIA?
>> RIGHT.
EXCELLENT.
(LAUGHTER) IF YOU LOOK AT AFRICAN-AMERICAN
MALES, THE NUMBERS SHOOT UP 4,000 PER 100,000.
60% WILL DO TIME IN PRISON, HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUTS, YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT A MASSIVE THREAT TO LIBERTY
WE COMPRISE 5% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION AND 25% OF THE
INCARCERATED POPULATION.
>> Trevor: BUT IT'S SUCH A BIG THING TO LOOK AT AND I'M TRYING
TO DELVE INTO THE SOURCE OR THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.
READING THE ARTICLE WAS FASCINATING FOR ME BECAUSE I HAD
NEVER THOUGHT OF INCARCERATION AS SOME SORT OF SINISTER PLOT.
>> RIGHT.
>> Trevor: I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS.
OH, A LOT OF BLACK PEOPLE IN JAIL.
>> RIGHT.
>> Trevor: IT'S JUST THE LUCK OF THE DRAW.
>> RIGHT.
>> Trevor: BUT IN THE ARTICLE, THAT'S NOT HOW YOU LAID IT OUT.
IT SEEMS MORE PLANNED THAN THAT.
>> YEAH, AND BY PLANNED, WE DON'T MEAN LIKE SOME SINISTER
KABAL WITH WHITE PEOPLE SITTING IN THE ROOM SAYING THIS IS WHAT
WE'LL DO TO THE BLACKS NEXT.
>> Trevor: RIGHT.
BUT THERE IS A ROOM LIKE THAT -- CARRY ON.
(LAUGHTER) >> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERITAGE
AND HISTORY IN THIS COUNTRY.
AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY SINCE 1619 SINCE
THE TIME OF SLAVERY, JIM CROW, CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT INTO THE
PRESENT.
THERE IS BEEN A VIEW OF BLACK PEOPLE AS HAVING A PENCHANT
FOR CRIMINALITY THAT AND IF THEY WEREN'T ENSLAVED THEY WOULD RAPE
AND ROB AND PILLAGE.
>> Trevor: IF SOMEBODY SAID TO YOU YOU CAN SEE STATISTICALLY
BLACK PEOPLE COMMIT MORE CRIME AND THAT'S WHY MORE ARE IN JAIL,
HOW DO YOU REFUTE THAT?
>> DISCREPENCIES IN CRIME RATES FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS EXTEND WAY
BACK TO THE RECONSTRUCTION ERA AT LEAST
WE HAD A RISE IN CRIME IN THE '70s AND '80s AND '90s,
THAT'S TRUE, BUT BY THE EARLY '90s THE CRIME RATE STOPPED
DROPPING AND INCARCERATION KEPT GOING UP.
>> Trevor: ACROSS THE WORLD, NOT JUST IN AMERICA.
>> RIGHT.
>> Trevor: CANADA.
RIGHT.
>> Trevor: AND AMERICA WAS THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT RESPONDED TO
IT IN TERMS OF MASS INCARCERATION.
>> THE CRIME RISE AND FALL THAT HAPPENED IN THE LATTER HALF OF
THE 20th CENTURY IS NOT A UNIQUELY AMERICAN EVENT BUT MASS
INCARCERATION IS UNIQUELY AMERICAN, OUR RESPONSES ARE
UNIQUELY AMERICAN.
>> Trevor: LET'S TALK ABOUT MOYNIHAN.
THE WAY YOU SET THIS UP IS INTRIGUING.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHY THIS GUY WAS SO IMPORTANT.
IF I'M CORRECT IN SUMMATION THAT WHAT YOU SAID IN THIS PIECE IS
MOYNIHANS WRITING, HIS MEMO WAS LARGELY ONE OF THE PILLARS THAT
THEY BASED MASS INCARCERATION ON.
>> WELL, I THINK MOYNIHAN WAS QUITE SYMPATHETIC TO THE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILY.
HE ARGUED FOR A BENEVOLENT INVESTMENT ON BEHALF OF
AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES.
>> Trevor: BUT THAT WASN'T PUBLISHED AT THE TIME. HE HOPED
PEOPLE WOULD ASK FOR THE SOLUTIONS AND THEY NEVER DID.
>> THEY CHOSE A DIFFERENT SOLUTION.
THE REASON I ARGUE FOR THAT IS WITHIN THE CAREER OF DANIEL
PATRICK MOYNIHAN HIMSELF.
ONE OF THE SAD THINGS ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACY IS IT'S NOT DIED
IN THE WOOL RACISTS WHO OFTEN END UP DOING DAMAGE.
IF YOU READ SOME OF THE MEMOS AND I HAVE THEM IN THE PIECE
FROM DANIEL PATRICK MONAHAN, HE ENGAGES IN THE SAME
CRIMINALIZATION OF BLACK PEOPLE.
>> Trevor: IN THE SHORT TIME I'VE READ UP OR BEEN AROUND
AMERICAN POLITICS AND HISTORY, THE ONE THING I'VE ALWAYS BEEN
TAUGHT IS IT'S THE CONSERVATIVE AGAINST THE BLACK MAN, IT IS THE
LIBERAL WHO IS FOR THE BLACK MAN AND IN THIS PIECE YOU CHALLENGE
THAT IN A BIG WAY.
YOU GO MOYNIHAN WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIBERALS AND YET HIMSELF
AND OTHERS WHO WERE ON THE LIBERAL SIDE --
>> IT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN TERMS OF
THE ARCHITECTURE OF MASS INCARCERATION IS THE '94 CRIME
BILL PASSED BY BILL CLINTON, SUPPORTED BY NUMEROUS DEMOCRATS.
I THINK TWO PEOPLE IN THE SENATE ABSTAINED AND VOTED DOWN THE
94 CRIME BILL.
>> Trevor: BILL CLINTON SAID HE REGRETTED THE DECISION AND IT
PUT SO MANY BLACK PEOPLE IN PRISON.
>> EVERYBODY REGRETS IT.
IT WAS MUCH HARDER AT THAT TIME TO SPEAK OUT.
AT THAT POINT IN TIME WHEN THE VOTES WERE GATHERED AND TO SAY,
LISTEN, THIS IS A BAD IDEA, AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE EMPOWERED
TO DO THAT WERE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.
>> Trevor: I'M HAVING A GOOD TIME.
THE "THE ATLANTIC" FEATURING THE COVER STORY IS ON THE NEWS
STANDS NOW, BETWEEN THE WORLD AND ME IS IN BOOK STORES.
TA-NEHISI COATES, EVERYBODY!