geoff: The islamic republic of
Iran is no stranger to popular
The regime cracked down on
protests in 2009, and again ten
years later.
But the demonstrations sweeping
the country today are different.
They're being led by young
people, and are playing out both
in the streets, and online.
Ali: After two weeks of
protests, and brutal government
backlash --
[explosion]
Iranian activists, predominantly
young women, remain defiant.
The protests started earlier
this year over high prices, but
erupted in mid-september after
the death of 22-year-old mahsa
Amini.
She died in police custody after
being arrested by Iran's
morality police, who said she
was wearing her hijab
improperly.
[Chanting]
Since demonstrations began, more
than 80 people have been killed.
>> Down with terrorist regime!
Ali: And protests have spread to
other countries, from the U.S.
To Turkey, where an Iranian
woman cut her hair -- a popular
act of resistance.
Nasibe: Today, men and women in
Iran are united in wanting to
destroy the islamic republic
forever.
When women are liberated then
the whole society will be
liberated.
>> Hello tiktok.
This is me talking from Iran.
Ali: But with social media the
preferred battlefield for this
generation of protesters, even
those Iranian women staying
inside are finding ways to speak
out.
>> To help us better understand
Iran's gen Z protesters, I'm
joined by holly Dagres.
She's a fellow with the atlantic
council, a Washington based
think tank, where she is also
the editor of the Iran sauce
blog.
-- Iran source blog.
Holly, thank you for joining us.
You've previously said that the
2009 green revolution, which was
kind of called the social media
revolution in Iran, is not
really the best example of how
social media revolutions in Iran
can go and that this one
actually is much more deserving
of that moniker.
Why is that?
And who are these protesters?
Holly: Well, these protesters
are led by Iranian gen Z with
women at the forefront.
And what's been key here is that
Iranian gen Z, like gen Z
everywhere, is online.
They're on social media.
They're on talk Instagram.
-- They are on tiktok and
Instagram.
And they use social media to
express themselves and for their
voices to be heard.
And what we've been seeing is
that they've used this and
expressed themselves through
lyrics.
Shervin hajipur, a singer that's
based in New Zealand, actually
used the tweets from actual
Iranians as part of his lyrics,
and some of the needs and wants
included the ability to kiss
their lover in the streets, to
dance in the streets, and for
freedom.
Unfortunately hajipur was
arrested by security forces.
Ali: And security forces are
indeed cracking down very hard.
They're using different
censorship means to prevent
Iranians from getting those
messages out.
Is that going to be something
that impedes these protesters's
progress or the ability to
achieve their goals?
Or are they finding ways around
the regimes crackdowns?
Holly: Since the 2009
post-election protests known as
the green movement, the islamic
republic has viewed internet and
social media as a national
security threat.
So they've been cracking down
hard on the internet over the
years.
So with much of the world's most
popular websites, 35% of the
world's websites have been
blocked by Iran.
And the Iranians use
circumvention tools like virtual
private networks to get by.
Right now, we've been hearing
from Iranians on the ground.
They have to go through dozens
of vpns in order to get these
messages out to the world.
Ali: It's truly incredible when
you think of the efforts that
they have to go to.
I want to ask you also about the
age difference between the
regime, the clerics who run it
and these protesters.
How is that generational gap
playing into what we're seeing
on the ground?
Holly: Well, Iranian gen Z is
under the age of 25.
Much of the clerical
establishment at the top are
geriatric, in their own words,
of gen Z.
They have nothing really in
common with them.
A lot of gen Z because they
spend time online, do a lot of
the same things that gen zers in
the west do.
They make deepfakes, they make
memes.
And so for example, there's
ageism memes about this cleric
by the name of ayatollah
jannati.
And ayatollah jannati is 95
years old.
He's the chairman of the
influential guardian council,
which is a vetting body.
And they actually refer to him
as a dinosaur and a t-rex.
And so they actually show this
in memes that they make.
And that should just give you a
sense of how disconnected they
are with the government in the
islamic republic.
Ali: Finally, holly, I want to
get your sense of what the Biden
administration is doing.
How do you think that they've
responded to these protests so
far?
Holly: Well, they've been a
little behind, but they finally
caught up in may.
It took a while for the Biden
administration to react to
protests back then.
It took about nine days for the
U.S. State department
spokesperson Ned price to
actually issue a statement.
Meanwhile, the state
department's persian language
Instagram account was posting
about soulcycle and crossfit,
and so they've definitely done a
180.
We now hear condemnation from
all levels of government, and
that's been very important.
We've also seen that they've
issued a general license that
would be important for internet
freedom.
And that was something that has
been called for for years, even
since the trump administration.
And now we're finally seeing
that done, whether it's going to
really help with things on the
ground, that's the question.
Ali: Holly, thank you so much
for your time.
Holly: Thank you.