WAR: THE DANGERS OF THE CONFLICT
BETWEEN THE U.S. AND XI
JINPING'S CHINA."
A MUST READ.
WALTER ISAKSON, I WANT TO TALK
TO YOU ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN
WASHINGTON, D.C.
BOB WOODWARD AND BOB COSTA'S
EXTRAORDINARY STORY ON THE FRONT
PAGE OF THE "WASHINGTON POST"
THIS MORNING.
BEFORE I DO THAT, LET'S TALK
CHINA FOR A MINUTE.
LET'S USE SOME DIALECTAL
THINKING HERE.
TWO THINGS CAN BE TRUE AT ONE
TIME.
CHINA CAN BE AN EXTRAORDINARILY
DANGEROUS POWER, AT THE SAME
TIME WE ARE GOING TO BE SHARING
THE WORLD STAGE WITH THEM AND WE
NEED TO HAVE A BIPARTISAN
APPROACH, DO WE NOT, THAT
REWARDS CHINA WHEN THEY ARE
HELPFUL?
AND ACTUALLY, IT'S TOUGH ON
CHINA WHEN THEY ARE NOT.
HOW DO WE GET THAT ACCOMPLISHED
IN WASHINGTON, D.C. IN THIS
CURRENT CLIMATE?
>> YOU ARE RIGHT.
IT WOULD BE A BLUNDER OF
HISTORIC PROPORTIONS, I THINK,
IF WHAT HAPPENS NOW IS WE DRIVE
CHINA INTO HELPING RUSSIA, AND
50 YEARS AGO IT WAS PART OF THE
FOREIGN POLICY THAT WE BALANCE
THEM OFF AGAINST EACH OTHER.
ONE OF THE STRANGE AND
DEPRESSING THINGS I HEAR FROM
PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON IN THE
ADMINISTRATION AND CLOSE TO IT
IS THAT THEY HAVE TO REMAIN VERY
TOUGH ON CHINA BECAUSE THEY ARE
AFRAID OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE
EXTREMELY ANTI-CHINA, THAT WING
OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY MAKING
THIS A CERTAIN ISSUE.
WE ARE VERY BAD AT DOING
BALANCES.
IN
IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE
COOPERATION WE NEED FROM CHINA
AND WE ARE COMPETING WITH CHINA,
AND MOST OF THE COMPETITION IS
ECONOMIC, SO WE REALLY HAVE TO
GET OUR ACT TOGETHER AND HAVE A
BIPARTISAN APPROACH TO CHINA.
>> AS I BRING IT UP ALL THE
TIME, WE OBVIOUSLY -- WE WERE
ALLIES WITH ONE OF THE MOST EVIL
MEN OF THE 20th CENTURY, JOSEPH
STALIN, HE KILLED 30 MILLION OF
HIS OWN PEOPLE, AND RICHARD
NIXON, THE MOST ARDENT COMMUNIST
OF HIS TIME, NIXON MADE THE
DEAL, AS YOU SAID, AS A COUNTER
BALANCE TO THE SOVIET UNION AND
THEIR EXPANSIONISM.
I WONDER HOW DO WE GET THERE
FROM HERE?
BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE A
REALISM IF WE ARE ON THE VERGE
OF WHAT PUTIN IS SUGGESTING IS
WORLD WAR III.
WE DON'T ONLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH
CHINA, BUT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH
SAUDI ARABIA AND DEAL WITH
PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN BAD ACTORS
AND COUNTER BALANCE RUSSIA'S
THREAT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
SANCTIONS ARE NOT GOING TO WORK
IF CHINA DECIDES TO VIOLATE THEM
OR CHINA DECIDES TO CONTINUE TO
TRADE WITH RUSSIA.
ALREADY THERE'S TRADE WITH
ENERGY IN RUSSIA AND THEY DO IT
WITH THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM THAT'S
REALLY BAD.
THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU MAKE
IT SO THE U.S. HAS ENOUGH
LEVERAGE ECONOMICALLY?
TO ME THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO BE
GOOD AND GUARD OUR ECONOMY, BUT
WE ALSO HAVE TO DO THINGS LIKE
BIDEN IS STARTING TO DO, WHICH
IS START EXPORTING LIQUIFIED
NATURAL GAS.
THE LARGER ISSUE IS HERE WE HAVE
BEEN THROUGH 50 YEARS OF
GLOBALIZATION WHEREVER SUPPLY
CHAIN AND OUTSOURCING OF
MANUFACTURING HAS BEEN DONE ON A
GLOBAL BASIS.
WE ARE NOW RELIANT FOR
MICROCHIPS ON CHINA AND TAIWAN.
WE ARE RELIANT FOR SO MANY
THINGS, WHETHER IT BE NICKEL OR
COBALT AND THE THINGS WE NEED.
WE WILL HAVE TO BRING THINGS
BACK TO THE UNITED STATES,
BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IN THE
DANGEROUS WORLD WHERE WE ARE
TRYING TO COMPETE WITH CHINA
ECONOMICALLY, BALANCE RUSSIA MILITARILY, WE COULD HAVE EUROPE
MILITARILY, WE COULD HAVE EUROPE
BE TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON RUSSIAN
GAS.
>> AS SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS A
BREAKING STORY, A MASSIVE
BREAKING STORY WHEN YOU SEE ONE,
YOU HAVE TO SAY, GENE AND I WERE
TALKING LAST NIGHT, AND IT'S
JUST -- IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE
MOMENTS THAT STOPPED WASHINGTON
WITH, LIKE YOU SAID, A
GIGANTIC -- WELL, I WILL TELL
YOU, GENE, WHY DON'T YOU ASK
WALTER THE NEXT QUESTION?
SO MUCH TO DIG INTO HERE FROM
YOUR PAPER.
>> YEAH, WALTER, I GUESS THE
OBVIOUS QUESTION, THE HEART OF
THE QUESTION IS YOU HAVE GINNI
THOMAS, WHO WE SEE FROM THESE
TEXTS, IS COMPLETELY OFF THE
RAILS.
WE HAVE JUSTICE THOMAS, WHO WAS
THE LONE DISSENTER IN THE
DECISION THAT THE COMMITTEE
COULD, IN FACT, GET THESE
MATERIALS TURNED OVER FROM THE
NATIONAL ARCHIVES.
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THAT NEXUS?
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE
QUESTIONS THAT THIS RAISES ABOUT
A SITTING SUPREME COURT JUSTICE?
>> WELL, I WILL FOCUS ON ONE
THING, WHICH IS CHIEF JUSTICE
ROBERTS.
A MAN OF GREAT INTEGRITY, AND A
PERSON THAT CARES VERY MUCH
ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE COURT
ESPECIALLY AT A TIME WHEN
EVERYBODY CONSIDERS THE COURT TO
BE TOTALLY PARTISAN.
THIS IS NOT JUST THE CASE OF THE
COURT BEING PARTISAN, THIS IS A
CASE OF SOME TOTALLY UNHINGED
PERSON WHO IS MARRIED TO A
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE MAKING
TEXTS, AND THEN HER HUSBAND ON
THE SUPREME COURT VOTING NOT TO
ALLOW THOSE THINGS TO BECOME
PUBLIC, EVEN THOUGH ALL OF THE
OTHER JUSTICES, DEMOCRATIC AND
REPUBLICAN-LEANING JUSTICES DID
SO.
I THINK WHAT THE CHIEF JUSTICE
ROBERTS HAS TO DO IS TO FIGURE
OUT A WAY, SINCE THERE'S NO CODE
OF CONDUCT, NO CODE OF ETHICS
FOR THE SUPREME COURT, AND THIS
IS NOT SOMETHING CONGRESS CAN DO
BECAUSE WE HAVE A SEPARATION OF POWERS, AND CHIEF JUSTICE HAS TO
POWERS, AND CHIEF JUSTICE HAS TO
FIGURE OUT HOW TO HAVE OPERATING
PROCEDURES AND STANDARDS, AND A
WAY THAT CERTIFICATE
WAY CERTAIN JUSTICES CAN COME