dinner pool thank you both very much
indeed for joining us this week as the
Labour leadership contest gets properly
under way who's had a good week of those
candidates would you say so you know I
think we can say that Lisa Nandi has had
a good week I mean she certainly had a
high profile week I think so we we've
just done a poll for labour list by
servation with laborious readers who are
labour members and she had very low
levels of familiarity with her and her
policy platform I think we can expect
that to change she did a speech on
Monday her launch speech then she did a
speech yesterday on freedom of movement
and how actually she you know believes
in it she's rebutting those accusations
that she's kind of close to blue labour
and those sort of anti migration
sentiments so she's really going for it
now and really trying to appeal to
labour members basically and she just at
least did as well as all got the better
of Andrew Neil on the BBC which you
don't see yeah exactly and I think I
mean it really was a consensus that she
had done very very well and she handled
all of his questioning brilliantly I
think I mean there's you can disagree
with some of her ideas and she did have
a little slip-up in terms of when she
was talking about Scottish independence
movement and she talked about Catalonia
so she's released an article today to
rebut that but I mean she was impressive
overall and she clearly held her own
Paul you've endorsed obvious diamond it
doesn't need my endorsement presumably
you think he's had a good week with
endorsement who do you think's had a
good week and look at it I think that
what we're seeing with them all is that
they're all detaching themselves from
their former selves really mugged yes
Phillips you know the kind of art you
know I'll stab you in the front you know
[ __ ] off to Diana Baur you can believe
that but that's what she said she said
she said yeah exactly and and but she's
mooch Jess Phillips has moved so she's
now got Melanie on on her team who was
an arch I mean so Lexx it so brexit that
she was going to go for a no deal at one
point just phillips was her entire
entire selling point was was remain and
second referendum so i think what's been
good is that all the candidates that
survived I'm disappointed for it
the clove Louis I had to pull oh because
he had no no support all the kind of
super survive I'm moving I think beyond
the original base of support they
thought that we're going to get and
that's a sign or the fact that while
these campaigns they're all ramping up
you know doing their GDP are their data
you know the data laws that say you've
got to do X Y Z reality is finally
sinking in this was a huge an historic
defeat it means that that going just
carry on doing the same thing a bit
better won't work and and politicians
are not great no they're not
intellectuals not paid to be
intellectuals but they're having to do
some some fast footwork of the mind and
get their heads around what did they
actually what actually happened because
we're only in oh you know finding out
through evidence through discussing with
each other what happened and I think
look I mean you know I miss Dharma
supporter I think they've all had a good
week I'm just disappointed them all
doesn't include Clive um
one I you supporting care stammers some
people would imagine you were a natural
Rebecca long Bailey supported you were a
big backer of the Corbin projects for a
quite a quite a long time well I
certainly you know you could I wouldn't
say I was an architect of Corbin ISM but
if I was I was an architecture was never
alone on the building site because by
you know from the screep odd case
onwards which you know I can now say you
know made my made my blood boil though
would their response that he gave to the
scree poor thing I think I I would say
in a way from screep al where he failed
to nail the national security thing
which is so important for all labor
leaders right the way through to the
shenanigans we've had over his office
failing to implement the line that was
agreed on going for a second referendum
in whatever circumstances and I I began
to feel that that that that there's two
left's and I'm part of one left which I
believe to be open internationalist
democratically minded and this other
left which you know you know is too too
soft on Russia too soft on Syria too
soft on dictatorship
that they happen to like bad at running
the party bureaucratic to the very last
moment I felt increasingly disengaged
from them know if Rebecca long bailey
had come on out and say you know what
Paul I'd be really something like that
too
I didn't like the fact that we had
wholly unsuitable candidates imposed who
then lost impose at the last minute in
their in the election
all women short this court called here
to annoy this person if Rebecca had said
yeah I've been feeling like that a long
time I'd have thought great but instead
what's happened the reason I think
Rebecca one really took so long for her
campaign to get at the starting blocks
is because they didn't really know what
they wanted because and this is even
know why you get some of the officials
in the United
even know talking about switching to
Nandi and they were even to the last
moment for talking about about getting
Barry Gardner Orion Lavery to stand
because what they want is a red brexit
and I'm afraid a red bricks it doesn't
exist though wrecks it for me is a
disaster well I can no longer fight it
we can fight its effects but I see
stahma as the inheritor of at its best
what the labor shadow covenant was
trying to do at its most open at its
most engaged with the rest of the party
and of course with reality if I go back
to we've all been in the storm account
would be the same well since Lisa and
Hundley said you know drop that
bombshell on Corbin I think was
yesterday or the day before you know you
really betrayed national security over
over sweetheart
only in betrayed it I don't think he
just had the right line he but it was
bad we said well what does Kia say at
the time and lo and behold stahma was
spot on on the night he condemned Russia
called for sanctions
he mentioned inter alia that he had
represented Alex under Litvinenko's wife
in court
I mean who hasn't he represented after
that video it sounds like the video yeah
I mean Central likes a leak to every
single thing issues but I've discord in
there but let me make a serious point
about here um it's a different kind of
left and one of my criticism of that
sort of Morningstar unite left in the
party is this like Blair ISM is
very top-down it's very prepared to use
the bureaucratic methodologies of the
parts that you use the word Stalin this
recently if somebody walks around with a
badge of Stalin on that their lapel it's
not an insult to call them Stalinist if
they celebrate the murder of Leon
Trotsky by the GPU the KGB as someone a
minor person in Becky's team did then
you have to be prepared to say what it
is and this is not a new thing for me I
mean we're written two entire books
trying to distance their left from that
tradition well it's coming out to some
of those things we taught you brought up
brexit radical is kids stammer the cno's
you listen to Paul do you feel the left
coalition that came together around
Corbin has fractured and can could that
be fatal for Rebecca Mon Bailey's
chances definitely that's exactly what
happened I think jeremy corbyn's
leadership kind of held all these
strands of the labor left together and
we're obviously once he's gone you know
we can see and one that's once that
vacancy comes up we can see the people
have completely different ideas of how
to do labor politics and how to sell
those policies and all the rest of it on
the labor left and I think that is why
Rebecca old Bailey's campaign has been
you know so slow to start as well from
what I understand you know there has
been a lot of infighting within her camp
there are there's a left and right
within her campaign team even there's a
lot of factionalism there and that has
contributed to her very slow start I
think we're going to see it kick off now
because momentum I mean I'll see there
was a lot of criticism the way that they
did this there's no there's no
coincidence the fact that John Landsman
is both chair of momentum and director
of Rebecca long Bailey's campaign in the
way that they've done yes so so yes so
momentum balloted it's its members but
it decided to recommend Rebecca Conway
in Angela Rina interestingly that's
another interesting decision to its
members and then the questions put out
to the members for 48 hours were yes/no
questions so as no so the make a
Venezuelan referendum you know what
better Oh what home what better thing to
do to dispel the idea the
in some way a kind of autocratic you
know centralist bureaucratic
manipulative machine that to do a
Venezuela style referendum yes or no for
the great leader
I mean I'd heard that but momentum
working about its members and I was
surprised because I thought you know
actually you can overestimate just how
factional momentum members are and I
thought that actually Kirsten WA would
have a very strong showing in that poll
and then of course when I when the news
came out of how they were gonna do it
exactly no I mean III think um
as a momentum I'm a momentum member and
I and I joined it because I just thought
I've got to protect this this group from
the witch and the level of witch hunting
kind of you know attacks that were going
on against it Oh a lot of mainstream
media I think including channel 4 had a
big thing about how momentum had been
infiltrated should be shut down and
since then I joined because I wanted to
show solidarity with quite a diverse
group of people and I'm still a member
but the problem is that what am I going
to do now I mean what I have to do what
I'd like to do is form a group of
momentum members to campaign for care am
I worried about momentum see momentum
did fantastic work I think even its
enemies would agree it did fantastic
work for labor in both elections in this
last election technically speaking it
beat conservative central office on its
own with its social media reach maybe
not in not in in persuasiveness but in
in technical reach I want momenta to
carry on doing that and how does it do
that
if it's endorsed somebody who doesn't
win because then what it has to become
is an opposition no I don't and that
could really happen under K star mode
couldn't know that they the left could
look I couldn't become here the force it
always here's some more risking me but
we more clout here's some more breaking
news
if stahma wins what I want to do is form
a left group that holds him to account
and if necessary criticizes him and does
what label II despite so difficult which
is to think the unthinkable about policy
democracy and lots of things that are
politicians often don't know what they
don't know so the point about a left
group that can what I say a left group I
mean a you know a policymaking a
factional
with a smaller group that that carries
on what we've done on the Jeremy which
is the left which is internationalism
which is which is class struggle yeah I
want all that and if necessary I'll do
it separately from Stallman even though
I support him but I spring to a lot of
people who would have been your natural
soulmates over the years will certainly
part of the Corbin project at the
beginning like you think a left
organization trying to hold Kirsten to a
left agenda will have an awful lot of
work to do because he is they would say
they do say he is a Kinnick figure not
an ed miliband figure no even those
politics you could argue a quite admit
event but a Kinnick figure because he is
transitional to an even bigger move to
the right beyond him that's what they
say you know that so I don't want to
rabbit on at length about this but I I
wouldn't see Stallman as any kind of
parallel to any of those recent leaders
that the person he reminds me of the
most is Alexis tsipras who ran syriza
who basically this is the Greek run
you're going to scare some more Labour
MPs off but there's a reason for this
look at what super tsipras did he
systematically took a left force and and
confronted them with some very hard news
which is look guys you're not gonna win
unless you lose some of your doctrine
earnest unless we get some of the
expertise from the party we've just
destroyed the the centrist social
democracy PASOK in Greece the parallels
are not exact but he was also able
through force of character by kind of
representing modernity and and sort of
professionalism to I mean I I had the
privilege to make documentaries where I
was inside as close as I am to you while
they're in their version of turn Downing
Street and I was utterly impressed by
the professional professionalism of it
and that's what I want I mean I can live
with Lisa Nandi because I think she's
equally professional I can certainly I
think Emily for Murray is equally
professional but I think you just got
that thing that allows you to look like
you're gonna run a major state in the
world Sienna do do you think a lot of
carbon Easter's feel their legacy would
be intact with kids Dharma we can see
his team is peppered with a few names
that might give that impression
what do you think yeah it's interesting
how I mean coming back to what you said
earlier actually all of the campaign
teams are put together in a very careful
way so Jessa Phillips has Melanie on
West treating but also a lot of people's
vote campaign staffers and and then
there's yes Kirsten has brought on Simon
Fletcher and Kat Fletcher so these are
people who are instrumental in jeremy
corbyn's 2015 and 2016 successes and his
leadership campaign so he's got some
real experts there with Corbin
accessories on board he's definitely
signalling of course he also has owned
Smith's supporters on his campaign and
his own staffers a you know people who
sported Liz Kendall Owen Smith those
kind of people so we know that in terms
of who he associates with in his home
constituency and in terms of the
staffers that he currently has they're
very much not on the korbinite winning
of the party and I think he will have to
build trust if he is going to get those
kind of soft momentum type members he is
gonna have to build trust with them
because it's not entirely clear for
instance at the moment which public
ownership plans that he would keep and
which ones he would reject he's
passionate about the rail but not so
much mail and water for instance so this
these are the kind of things that are
going to come out in the hustings and
the televised debates these sort of
details and it could derail his campaign
actually if rlb is seen as definitely
the left candidate and actually care
Starman moves more and more over to the
right of the Labor Party
he's lucky in a sense maybe that Jess
Phillips is there yes it's very useful
to have her on the ballot paper I think
she will get through this second stage
of the leadership contest they have
someone who flint outflanks you on the
right as it were exactly is quite
otherwise he'd be not only the only
bloke standing there but the most
right-wing could be projected as their I
think these two an outsider the Jess
Phillips is a social democrat she's a
centrist social democrat Lisa Nandi is
should not I think Lisa has done enough
at the moment to look non-blue labour
all this stuff about internationalism
is interesting to me I want to kind of I
want to get to the bottom of what it
really means um
stahma and
for Murray of quite clearly in the in in
the left social-democratic mold and and
what I actually want to hear what Becky
stands for because because there are so
many of that unite lotto as we call them
the office you know the old office the
behind her who do have a very hard left
a very economic nationalist and I think
bureaucratic reviewer votes are on the
party I'd love it if she came out of all
of that a bit but in the end of the day
that's the material we have to win the
next election it is right wing social
democracy its centrist social democracy
it's the soft left it's the hard left my
question is not who should run it
because if one more of these factions
spend another five years like the three
that we've gone through trying to run
the party as a faction you're not gonna
win an election that's what I learned on
the night of the 12th we can't win if
the leadership is run as a faction
against everybody else in in the party
this is what attracted me to star more
than any specific policy issue or
whether he wants rail or water it's it's
his understanding of that and coalition
building that I think it makes him the
most attractive candidate at the heart
of the kids town the recent political
story is what many people would see as
his holding Jeremy Corbyn by the hand
and walking him to a place on Europe
that on brexit that Jeremy Corbyn didn't
initially really want to go so we have
the 2016-2017 general election and and
Labour's run on implementing brexit but
after that kiss Thomas seems to take
Jeremy called me on a journey John
McDonald joins the journey and they move
closer closer towards a second
referendum eventually putting the flag
in a second referendum never quite
coming out in the Jerry Corbin's case
four remain but that journey our floor
do you think as we sit here now and
potentially looking at Boris Johnson
brexit which will be more divergence
from Europe how flawed was that central
bit of the care star mother story if
I've got that story rights in I think
that's pretty much an accurate account
of what happened
I think his team will always say that
case Tama is incredibly understanding of
the MPs who represented leave
constituencies MPs like listen Andy who
were saying you know
my vote for a semi not vote for X here
but I understand the reasons and we need
to engage with that and we can't just
take this anti-democratic view of
rejecting the 2016 referendum result I I
personally was never in favor of a fresh
referendum so I'm certainly not on
Paul's wavelength on that issue I think
basically is a difficult one because
Jeremy Corbyn certainly was very
skeptical about all of this but he his
style of leadership is all about
compromise and building consensus he
needed to get the trade unions on board
he needed to move them over slowly
slowly inch by inch get the members who
were already there to just compromise
that little bit and not go full remain
but just say we want another referendum
see we came to this compromise position
by the time we got to September and
Conference but to the outside that
looked like week leadership
it looks like indecisiveness on jeremy
corbyn's part but from the inside
there's an arguments we made that was
quite skillful management of all of
these stakeholders within the Labour
Party who deserved to have a say over
the process it's really not how it
looked to me let's go back a bit
from December 2018 onwards the TSSAA
union and hope not hate who are kind of
seen within the labor room it's quite
blue laborious quite naturally
sympathetic to you know Lex it all or
leaving blue blue hope not hatin and
TSSAA we're presenting Corbin and his
team repeatedly with with polling
evidence that said we'll lose three
votes to the Lib Dems and any new
centrist party that's formed which could
have which at that point was a reality
will lose votes Lib Dems greens and live
and Scottish nationalists three for
every one we lose to the Tories all
relief and I believe that at the time
was right so people like me and it
wasn't just me said spent the whole of
Springs trying to say it's not just a
second referendum we've got to commit to
remain if we really believe hard brexit
is a disaster for the working-class we
ought to tell them that no if we then
commit to it would then you want to
think but what about that warm person
we're going to lose in the end we
couldn't persuade Jeremy's people and
john macdonald played i think a
brilliant role trying to so it wasn't
consensual it was a battle and MacDonald
was fighting for that position so worst
Armour but Jeremy's office word and
above all whenever he did move unites
the Union and his own men his own stuff
would pull him back so the to the exit
the external I is not wrong here it
looked like dithering because it was
dithering but you still but if if you've
got the dream you wanted and he'd gone
even faster than even more definitive
Pro remain position lost yet for me and
the trade unions were arguing this we
weren't we weren't
ignorant of the fact that this cultural
dissociation had taken place indeed
you'd last year I went up to Lisa Lisa
nandi's constituency did some work with
her listen to people you don't have to
be there five minutes to hear the
antipathy of even the members towards
everything Europe I mean it's not just
that they have a sort of soft left
position on the Europe many of our
members in those constituencies just
want to leave Europe so we said Luke saw
the position we've got we're
hemorrhaging votes in the end we
hemorrhage something like 1.1 million to
the Lib Dems even knowing the right
position we went down after the NEC
decision on the 29th of April not to go
for the second referendum we fell from
32 to 22% we were neck in that with the
Lib Dems with a third party being formed
at the same time so my idea was sort
that a no move to the main task the main
task is to get bus at lolli wherever
you've got to try and offer them
something that the balance is the fact
that you've taken a clear decision
you're never going to be balanced today
well you say that but it's a
counterfactual you don't know what could
have been the balance but you could see
the point I won the points I'm making it
trying to get your view on his kids
farmers biggest judgment call that he's
ever made this journey to a more pro
remain position that Jeremy Corbyn ever
was comfortable with history could turn
around and say that was that was a
really bad move which particular one
because if you look at it stahma spent
quite a lot of time along it wasn't
called in Corbin on anybody else's hand
he was there in the team trying to get
Breck
it done if you remember Labor's position
was to try and do a deal especially at
that time where Teresa may failed and
she but finally invited labor in that
those those discussions were
unfortunately going on at a time when
we're just losing votes so I think that
what what we should have done anything
labor didn't blow an opportunity that
was there to try well ice at the
beginning after with the cabin this is
not a 72-inch
this is not a popular view and that
couldn't that the weirdest thing is the
only truck shinai could get for it was
with Stephen Kinnock and briefly with
people like Alex Sobel who are on the
open labor side towards the end of 2018
I came to the conclusion that if we had
a second referendum we should just go
straight forward gangbusters for a
Norway style deal but that means freedom
of movement clear in upfront freedom of
movement single market Norway style deal
get out but you know what nobody wanted
it and yet again the flavor front bench
they they just never bring themselves
either to a to a clearly defensible form
of bread said they had this this we
called it the unicorn it when this
unicorn brexit and having tried that
while I came my conclusion was well I
don't want to lose the vast majority of
progressive young left-wing people over
to the Lib Dems the greens and the SNP
I'd rather keep them that was a choice I
made so you know does anybody sound like
they have a path to winning back those
northern towns that are have always been
called labor heartlands i wonder who
these two golden or something else or
are they are they beyond reach and
labors going to completely redefine what
its electoral basis what's what's the
future that i think the really worrying
thing about the 2019 election is not
just how many of those so-called red
wall seats were lost but how many are
now still labor held but incredibly
marginal how many more we could have
lost actually and it was fortunate
though it wasn't an even bigger
landslide that's what is so worrying
obviously lisa nandi in terms of
leadership contenders who were talking
about this stuff I mean she is the sort
of town's Canada that is the kind of
mean that's going on is the
that is that you know that's what she
talks about predominantly because it's
been her analysis for such a long time
now she co-founded senator towns that
think-tank and she's been talking about
how that aging population the lack of
local bus services the fact that those
priorities weren't talks about in terms
of Labour's manifesto we may you know
we've done a whole press conference on
free broadband which is very interesting
policy and accessibility in that sense
is very important to those towns but the
fact that there wasn't a whole press
conference on bus services really says
something so she's really focusing on
this I think we need to hear more from
cast armor on exactly these problems
because of course he has this challenge
at the fact that he is a North London MP
he represents Camden I mean yet again we
have a potential leader who is going to
come from exactly the same part of
London has the last you're not able
that's a problem isn't it even though
you support it
council is not ideal kundan is the 69th
most deprived borough in Britain you
know what Wigan is the 75th most
deprived borough the difference is that
how kids dhamma will be seen do well
whether he is or not i'm just making a
point here the work you know i was
delighted when Clyde Lewis launched his
campaign in Brixton and his first words
were Brixton is a Labour Harland the I
come from the northwest part of Wigan
and and
what I've always thought is that what I
like with about Lisa's idea is that we
need to build a red bridge between these
two cultures but let's understand and
something that Jeremy never acknowledged
say something to understand this
Corbin used to make these speeches you
know whether you're in Wakefield or
whether you're in Camden or whatever you
know it's the same if everybody's got
this thing it's not true that it's the
same because the poverty of Camden you
look at the health statistics of Camden
they're excellent they're better than
average because it's got a young
population suicide what you know potent
perinatal mortality deaths under 75
they're all better than the average in
Britain you go to Wigan it's absolutely
dire because there's no money and it's
the it's it's people like people in my
family who have worked in heavy
industrial jobs
dying young because that's what you do
if you were
in a steelworks no we have to understand
and I'm delighted know that Lisa Andy
and has always understood this you know
the the types of poverty we're not
talking about a rich place in a poor
place we're talking about two kinds of
poor place now what we need to do is is
to demonstrate that you can come from
one of these places and you can cross
Lisa herself demonstrates this as well
because Lisa Dundee spent ten years it's
a bullet lap yet ya know first place
starmon went after the after the
election was lead to talk to the
defeated MP and talk to my friends and
colleagues who lived there so I think
everybody's showing willing to try and
cross that divide but here's what I what
I said that the the the the problem that
arose during the election was and I
think many in labor are not willing to
acknowledge it was the rise of nativism
what's it if you if you were nativism
says the people who dug the mines worked
in the coal mines fought World War two
etc should basically have more of a say
than the Lithuanian taxi driver and
better
well noise it's a it's we up we've put
some social capital in this into this
country
therefore we need we need to get some
return greater than use just arrived
that is the kind of logic to nativism I
heard it again and again on the doorstep
and the even our own activists were
coming up to us and say you know look
Plymouth one in four patients in
Plymouth doesn't have a GP a regular GP
a any waiting times through the roof
these issues should have been playing
for us for labour they were playing for
the Tories because the message was to
many migrants too many people too many
shirkers as well the wrong people are
going to A&E all these people we don't
like so you turn people against each
other and I don't think really any wing
of labour was quite understood the
Mountie we've got to climb to try and
put a moral case to the working-class
people who are we lost that nativism a
wrong idea they're all reachable these
people are there were some of them
beyond reach
I look for me nope nobody's beyond reach
you know I I you know I know of a
miserable old racists and Trump and golf
club balls with the would-be alliance
you said that all together when you
fight in an ideological battle you have
to be prepared to stigmatize the
opposition yeah I mean a miserable
racist and Golf Club
boar's is the call of the Tauri volt I'm
afraid and when I go to UC Luke I went
to my home tonally and and did some
campaigning and I know because I'm from
there people love arguing I mean if you
go in a pub and you're wearing some kind
of a badge saying you know extinction
rebellion expect four or five old blokes
to have a go at you and say we want to
open the coal mines but then argue back
working-class life is about an argument
and and I think that I want to have a
friendly argument with with all those
people who said to me we wanted to vote
Labour but we couldn't do because of X
and try and work out how many of them
some of me I'm afraid it's racism and
for so much just they didn't like the
work of Corbin and and and it was very
hard to sell Corbin and I'm sure you'll
agree we're just very hard and it got
hard yeah and I think the thing is that
he became a professional politician the
first time around people were willing to
give him the benefit of doubt because
they thought he's interesting he's fresh
he's new and he seems like he's straight
talking and honest and by the time that
there had been so much apparent provide
prevarication over the brexit position
and in lots of other policy areas it
just looked like he was one of one of
the others he were you exactly he turned
into the establishment and Boris Johnson
represented it seemed the
anti-establishment force which was what
was so strange about that election and I
think also I mean it came into came in
kind of became very clear when you know
there was all those battles over the BBC
coverage and that was and that was
partly because there were these two
parties the two main parties fighting to
be the anti-establishment in that
election which is very weird scenario to
be and I always thought that once
Johnson took over the leadership of the
Conservative Party that would be a huge
challenge for labour and for jeremy
corbyn's specifically now how is kirsten
not going to be the establishment versus
Boris Johnson I think one of the things
that we don't talk about enough and I'd
love to hear your views on it is the
fact that he has been talking about in
that launch video which was very
skillfully done it was brilliant but he
was he was really putting his DPP record
at the forefront of his campaign and
actually there's a lot there that could
really be criticised and used against
him in a general election and it is
quite worrying the prospect that the
Tories could turn that in
a law-and-order election things like the
john war boys case of course kiss tom is
going to have some very robust replies
on that and he's going to be saying you
know this particular decision once he
wasn't taken directly by me etc etc but
that just the fact that that could play
out is an incredibly risky move for
labour as a party sienna do you think
coming back to the mechanics of the
contest this is going to come down to
second preferences and Rebecca long
Bailey's got to be what sort of numbers
do you think in the first round
what do you of course this labor
internal election is being run under
rules that we have never used before
we've never seen them used before and
it's gonna be really interesting to see
how that plays out because in Ed
Miliband's time there was an electric or
a college and the trade union block
though it was very important there so
this time it's all member one vote but
it also has three stages to the process
so right now we're in the second stage
and that means there are local party
nominations they've got to get thirty
three each which doesn't sound too
difficult but actually in 2016
Owen Smith only got 50-odd and that was
literally a two horse race with only two
candidates so that's going to be quite
hard or they can go down the route of
affiliates so that's they need one big
trading in one of the big five they're
affiliated the Labour Party unites GMB
at that kind of Union another Union and
another affiliate group so Kirsten Murr
is well on his way to getting that and
getting through that route and he'll
probably fly through the local party
route as well and then there's Rebecca
long Bailey probably do the same thing
once she gets her campaign really going
they'll be momentum and there's very
likely to be unite on her side as well
so they'll probably get through those
routes then there's Lisa Nandi who could
get GMB support actually we'll see that
result soon and that will be really
interesting if she gets that and then
she doesn't have to put quite as much
resources into the local party route
that would be really valuable to her
campaign there's Jess Phillips who
obviously be kind of piggybacking on Ian
Murray's success in Scottish
constituencies so we're gonna see all
that play out Emily Thornbury is gonna
is going to have to do a lot of work in
order to get onto the ballot paper so
first of all there's that process and
then once we get to the all member
ballot well we don't know yet how it's
going to be affected by how many new
members have joined up
because unlike the last race they could
join with full voting rights until
Monday actually so the registered
supporters scheme doesn't matter quite
so much the way you pay 25 pounds
because they can sign up as full members
is not even as expensive and then there
will be affiliate members people like
Jewish labor movement who've just
announced their hustings and they can
actually vote in the contest as well
without being full members so we don't
quite know the effect of that yet once
we get to the ballot paper there's a
preferential voting system it's all
quite complicated and there I mean
according to our poll that we just did
labour list in servation we can see that
Rebecca long Bailey is quite divisive
she gets a lot of first preferences but
also a lot of sixth preferences so she's
ranked to last by quite quite a lot of
people about a quarter Jess Phillips is
the most disliked by far although she
comes third 50% of our respondents put
her six in their ranking of candidates
Kirsten is basically pretty much a
middle man a little bit like Lisa Nandi
people don't mind him they put him quite
high in fact in her in terms of first
preferences but then in terms of the
one-two-three four-five-six ranking
these numbers sort of go down like that
which just means that like Lisa it's
they're moderately popular and they're
not very divisive not very disliked so
how that's going to play out in terms of
the final round of counting those will
be really interesting I think Lisa Mandy
and Kirsten are really going to benefit
from those second preferences and from
other people being knocked out and then
being redistributed I don't think we're
going to see someone win a stonking
majority on the first round I think
we're gonna see preferences
redistributed I think was interesting as
well to know is that Angela Raina is
probably it looks like at this point
going to smash the deputy leader race
and actually she's probably going to
have far bigger mandate than whoever in
wins the leadership race whether that's
Rebecca and Bailey or kiss time and I do
think we've got to be realistic and it's
probably going to be one of those two
brilliant summation of everything can I
ask you the question that Rebecca Leung
daily in one of her rare media outings
was asked
jeremy corbyn's leadership marks out of
10 oh well he declined I either given
him 7 in 2017 and I give him 5 now
because I think that it wasn't just the
miss handling of brexit it was the
mishandling of that of the reputational
attacks and they were attacks some were
smears some were slanders some were
self-inflicted and personally as someone
who tried to to kind of penetrate that
wall of not listening and tell people
how they should be reacting I can tell
you that that at almost no time did the
people around him ever take the right
advice and you know if yours if you're
facing going on a doorstep with with you
know I saw people open the door to me
and say I'm a labor supporter but Jeremy
is going to destroy our country quite
difficult to take isn't it you have to
you have to you know you have to move
beyond sentimentality when something
like that happens you've got to say you
know could we have learned the lesson
earlier you know I famously I'm vilified
for calling for the advisers to go I was
accused of launching a coup against him
for doing that I wrote I really meant is
he should start taking good advice and I
don't think he ever did for that for
them that moment on from losing the
European election so no that's why I
would say it is time to go Oh for Jeremy
most definitely of the people who are
zealot the zealots of pro Corbin many of
them were very unhappy with the Rebekah
because they they don't even want to
sign up to this Board of Deputies call
of Conduct you know there's all sorts of
bad things I mean in the individual
neighbor branches about that right now
I'd say to them get over it you're never
going to see a person like that in
charge again we need to learn the lesson
and let's at least choose someone who
looks like they could be Prime Minister
I wrote some definitely sorry I'm just
not gonna give him my exception I would
say this history will give him I think I
mean a bit like kiss Tama has identified
he's gonna be recognized for turning the
Labour Party into an anti-austerity
party and being very clear on that and I
think people will look at the 2017
election as something that was very you
know a very interesting result and it
was a surprise and it was testament
a lot of his messaging and the way that
he he handled the kind of party
direction there but obviously the 2019
result is absolutely devastating I mean
for the Labour Party and obviously all
the communities that seeks to represent
I wouldn't put any mark on Corbin I
would only say that I mean I really
wanted obviously as a Labour member as
well as a journalist for Corbin to do
incredibly well and I think that that he
failed on on so many levels and I think
something that Labour members will be
looking for and one of the reasons why
they're attracted to stammer is they
want to see someone who can rebut media
attacks in an effective way they want
they know that we have a right-wing
press in this country that's not going
to change anytime soon
we need a strategy for handling that and
who has that in this contest and a lot
of people will be saying that skier star
mer thank you both very much indeed few
time lovely talk to you thanks very much
and thank you
you