I think we're talking across purposes on
the one hand we're talking about results
that we're hoping for on the other hand
we're talking about processes that we're
setting in motion you're saying should
we hope for certain kinds of lessening
of inequality and so on
the real question the political question
is shall we set in motion certain
processes because we hope for that and
do those processes enhance or reduce
freedom and I think the argument of
Milton is I can certainly argue that I
would make is that the attempt at doing
these things and it doesn't really
matter it's a complete storm and to talk
about absolute inequality if you know
absolutely throughout the film this is
the straw man he brings up in order to
say how ridiculous to have absolute
equality and then he goes on as well as
a result you say that you set up
processes in essence loser
end result may not be any more or less
inequality that exists now but the
question is those processes may indeed
reduce freedom greatly I would go beyond
the question of equality and put it more
generally that any process to ascribe
any status to any group of people
equality inferiority superiority must
necessarily reduce freedom because
whatever the government wishes to
ascribe to any group whatever whatever
place to use the phrase that was very
common in the South that block should
have their place whatever place the
government is going to assign the people
that place will not coincide weight that
place will not coincide either what all
those people are doing or with how
others perceive all those people because
there's too much diversity among human
beings to maintain any system of
ascribed status from the top is going to
mean it reducing people's freedom across
the spectrum that's why people have an
ascribed status it isn't as if
government by its intervention creates
it people are born into this world in a
given sector of a society and many many
of them are born at the bottom of the
society the argument about equality of
results was an argument that was linked
to equality of opportunity people
recognized that unless there was a
degree of equality in a degree of enough
food enough security access to education
unless these things were available to
all children then equality of
opportunity was merely a mockery that's
why equality of results became an issue
and it became an issue for black people
in the United States and they expressed
their concern whatever they have you
express oh damn it look no I did not
okay and the question then replied they
expressed their will by their
extraordinary participation in a protest
movement that began in the late 1950s
and didn't really nervous intellectuals
were not in that protest movement when I
saw what you were in that prowess you
wanted answer I finished good black
people have never supported for example
affirmative action photos anything of
that sort
wherever polls have been taking a black
opinion on such matters of should people
be paid equally or should it be this or
that white people have never taken a
position that you describe so it is not
a question of what black people chose it
was what you you choose to put in the
mouths of black people is what you
choose just to project it is not what
any black people have ever said anywhere
that you can put your finger on is to
put into the mouths of the pollsters as
far as I can see I put them both based
on the black community like most people
I have never seen a pollster if you look
at the people I want to go back to the I
want to carry it back to the earlier
point number one there's no question
about what equality of results if it
comes about through a framework of
freedom is a desirable result number two
I argue in the film I have argued here
that in point of fact you get greater
equality of actual results by a system
under which people are free to achieve
unequal results that for the poor people
of the world that frances fox piven was
talking about the most effective
mechanism for enabling them to improve
their status is not a governmental
program which seeks to ascribe to them
certain positions which seeks to provide
them with certain goods and services but
a governmental program which tries to
eliminate arbitrary barriers to
advancement I would say that in this
world the greatest source of inequality
has been special privileges granted by
government
the government you may talk a great deal
there may be a lot of talk about how
we're going to eliminate inequality but
if you look at go back to your case of
Britain is there any doubt that one of
the effects of governmental intervention
in Britain has been to create new
opportunities for special classes that
the way to get wealthy in a society that
supposedly is aiming at equality that
the way to get wealthy is to get a
special government permit to import the
import to get foreign exchange or to
import goods or to in this country to
set up a television station