Protesters once again demonstrated in front of the U. S. Supreme
Court today over abortion three weeks after the justices overturned
Roe v. Wade 17 members of Congress were among those arrested during
the protest this afternoon after U. S Capitol police said they blocked
traffic outside the court. Since the court's ruling last month. Doctors
in states with abortion bans have struggled to figure out how to
care for patients with high risk pregnancies, including miscarriages.
The Department of Health and Human Services put out new guidance
last week, saying any state ban is preempted by federal law protecting
abortions as part of emergency care, But medical providers are still
concerned they could be prosecuted for performing some procedures.
Joining me now is Dr David Hackney. He is a maternal fetal medicine
specialist based in Ohio Doctor Hackney. Welcome to the news hour.
I think it's fair to say the last few weeks have made clear there
are a number of doctors who are confused or scared.
About what they can or can't do In this new reality. We are when
they're caring for pregnant patients that federal guidance I just
laid out. Is that clear to you Do you have a clear understanding
of what you can and cannot do?
It does help, And we certainly appreciate appreciate everything that
the part department is doing in that regards. However, it doesn't
solve many of the many of the problems that we have which are specific.
Um
To the state with which we're in now. Unfortunately, some things
are very clear in the state of a higher higher we cannot perform
abortions for people, genetic anomalies, fetal for birth defects,
even those in which we know that the child will not survive, and
we also cannot perform abortions solely because the pregnancy was
conceived by rape.
Um, that is very straightforward. In my opinion that is very, very
tragic. The other main category in which we sometimes get involved
in abortion care is cases in which is needed to either save the mother's
life or on behalf of the mother's health. And this is where there's
still a lot of things, which are not clear in Ohio. The law does
call out some specific cases. So if there's
Pre by viable, premature membranes. Uh, great. Breaking the bag of
water or Mom has proclaimed eclampsia that is spelled out, but a
lot of things are very much, um, less clear. And there's a lot of
fear among obese. Joan's who don't know when we could proceed on
behalf of mothers health or not. So what does that mean for your
patients? I mean, if you have a pregnant patient, come in today,
you detect a lethal anomaly. What do you say to your patient? What
kind of care can you provide?
What I try to do first is I tried to talk to them is that the law
hasn't changed and try to come up with them with what would work
the best for them. You know, there are patients who are diagnosed
with lethal birth defects. We do choose to continue to move forward,
and we do certainly always support those patients. If that's what
works best for them. So when my own approach has been the last couple
of weeks, so they just try to talk to the patient.
I say pretend that the laws didn't change and let's figure out first.
What would work best for you? Unfortunately for most patients in
the sending of a lethal operative effect, they choose not to move
forward. And this is where I now have to tell the patient that they
cannot receive an aborted abortion in the state. We are still allowed
to speak free freely. We are so allowed to refer out of state, so
you know we will start to try.
To to do that. But there is the potential for a patient with a lethal
birth defect who will not be able to leave these days of Ohio and
would be forced to continue to term against their will, which I just
cannot imagine what a night nightmare without would be. What's the
risk for that patient in a situation like that?
Well, even if the patient is completely how healthy so sometimes
we have a case where all of the concerns are fetal Mom isn't totally
good health just even a completely normal, healthy pray. Pregnancy
always carries risks, and the rest of the pregnancy, which continues
to term is always greater than the risk of
Um, and abort abortion procedure. In the first time I met Pastor
or even the second two, you know, in high risk obstetrics all the
time. We see completely healthy patients where everything is going
well, and then they go to deliver and there's hemorrhage or a blood
clot in it kind of in the lung, and we know that things along those
lines can Oh, poker.
I can't imagine if there was a patient who had a lethal fetal disorder
was forced to continue the pregnancy to term against their will,
And then that's something terrible will happen when they went to
the river. That would just be a tragedy with no benefits at all.
Let me ask you about this new landscape we're in because it's clear
that there are legal voices watching. We've seen Attorney general's
weigh in on some of these cases. Attorney general in your in your
neighboring state of Indiana even threatened to go after a doctor
who did provide a legal
Abortion service. In one case, I'm curious what it feels like to
try to do your job in this climate. What your feeling and experiencing
what other doctors are telling you. They're worried about
There is a lot of fear I myself was on call the very first night
that the law has changed. You know, I got a text from friends on
a Friday night, saying that it had gone into effect and I do high
risk obstetrics. I was going to be rounding in the hospital Saturday
and Sunday and I didn't know what to do You know whether I came in
Saturday and there was a patient who was bleeding or someone who
is going into heart failure.
And there's still a lot of gray zones where we're not exactly sure
what the best thing is to do. You know, it sounds Doctor Hackney
like there's a lot you don't know. I've heard you say, uncertain.
A lot of times we're in a new legal landscape and one I should mention
you have argued against. So what is it that you want to see from
state leaders or from federal leaders that you think would help you
to better care for and protect your patients?
Well, The biggest thing I would want to see is for the Ohio State
Supreme Court to stop this lot to stop. SB 23. You know we're talking
about rape Children. We are talking about pregnancies where there's
a lethal birth defect and the woman tragically is going to be for
us to continue against her Will. The Ohio Supreme Court has the potential
power to stop this law.
If you have Children at the moment, you know is very, very unclear.
The attorney general should say clearly, you know which Children
who have been
Raped can provide abortion care. And which one we cannot. I mean,
it's such a horrible topic. You know, I don't believe to some extent
that we're having to think about this and they shouldn't have to
come from me. You know, as the chair of Kobe, Joanne for the state,
you know, I'm getting a lot of calls and getting a lot of questions.
I'm trying to figure this out.
I'm looking over the research and data on When do you have physical
damage to the body of a raped child. This whole scenario had to say
it's unfair.
That is Dr David Hackney, a maternal fetal medicine specialist based
in Ohio. Joining us tonight, Doctor Hackney. Thank you for your time.