Apple has lifted the lid on an almighty
rao between Silicon Valley tech groups
and the US government the world's most
valuable company said this week that it
will fight against a court order telling
it to unblock the iPhone of one of the
shooters in the San Bernardino massacre
joining me to discuss this is James
blitz one of the FT's leader writers
James let's set this up exactly what's
going on here what is the big case and
why is the government so agitated
towards Apple around it very roughly
ever since Edward Snowden made his
revelations about mass surveillance by
US and UK intelligence services there's
been a huge amount of tension between us
tech companies and Western intelligence
agencies but tech companies say we need
to do everything possible to protect the
information of our customers the
intelligence services are saying we're
facing a massive terrorist threat from
Isis we need to have some penetration of
those services even when they are
encrypted what's happened here is that
Apple has basically said defiantly that
it is not going to help the FBI on what
is a very big test case regarding the
San Berdoo San Bernardino killings now
this is the thin end of the wedge though
I mean this is the government's case is
that this is very specific about one
particular phone of one of the attackers
the tech industry that says probably
gitam Utley that actually this has much
broader implications for how privacy is
protected you mention any bird Snowden
consumers themselves are saying we want
to have much more privacy in our devices
and at the same time the implications
much further than that's just this one
company in this one device well I think
ever since the stone revelations
happened the US tech companies and all
tech companies are entitled to look very
carefully at any request from
intelligent services for this kind of
information that's absolutely right
they've got to be careful but in this
particular case the question is is this
justified what you're talking about here
is a killing by US citizens on US
citizens on US soil this is not some
fishing expedition by the FBI they're
actually looking at a specific case and
what they want to do is get hold of the
data which was on the phone of one of
the perpetrators of that killing that
looks pretty Copperbottom to me now the
question then is if they
see to this request is something
substantially done to make the iphone
vulnerable that's where the debate is
and of course that is the case isn't it
because right now that the the the
argument that Alba puts forward is that
no one can crack into an iPhone and
that's one of its both key selling
points but one of the things that
appeals to consumers and citizens around
privacy if they create this software to
do what the FBI is asking you to do it
makes it inherently a much more
breakable a device than it ever has been
it is the argument that Apple makes but
it's an argument that I would reject
basically i think yes what the FBI is
asking for is the creation of something
that could potentially be a master key
but it's not as though Apple is going to
be handing something over as far as I
can see to the FBI that they can you
then use willy-nilly whenever they want
in any situation they want they are
getting this they would be getting this
under a specific judicial order they
wanted to look at another phone in
another situation they would again have
to get another judicial order so I'm not
convinced that there is some kind of
blanket permission that's being given on
surveillance here by a booth at the FBI
is asking for from Apple but of course
it's not just the FBI is in it their
repressive regimes dictatorial ones like
China the Middle East Russia where the
scruples are less gone through and the
systems are less robust maybe then in
the US and the implication or the
argument the tech companies is that look
if we do it here that's going to give
all those other governments the same
right to access request and that's going
to post big challenges for companies
like Apple or Google and China again
that's something that has to be
considered and one understands what
Apple's commercial concerns are because
in the end in the end this is about a
commercial concern people want to be
sure if they've got the iphone they're
working in China that this isn't going
to happen but this is a very specific
case where the the the the request
that's being made in this case is quite
justified and one could for example
imagine a case say in China which the
Chinese authorities wanted assistance
with a specific act of murder that had
taken place and one could imagine that
of course if there's a case in which the
Chinese are asking Apple for some kind
of master key in order to look at
dissidents or whatever they're clearly
Apple should resist I
see though that those issues are
necessarily changed as a result of this
particular case it is we clear it's not
just a consumer and egg and a capitalist
issues not just about this about selling
more products it's also a moral ethical
argument isn't it because frankly unless
if the tech companies succeed to this in
the u.s. then that opens whole can of
worms that is impossible to kind of put
back in what it boils down to in the end
is whether you believe as I believe that
there is no such thing as a right to
absolute privacy in the end there must
always be circumstances in which
security services in a state are in very
specific circumstances able to access
information in order to protect the
wider public and protect national
security I do think that that is a
principle that can be justified in my
view Apple and other tech companies need
to accept that principle this doesn't
mean they've got to give ground on
everything of course they've got to
scrutinize everything on a case-by-case
boat basis but i think our argument has
always been that they should do
everything possible to help the
authorities in cases where there really
is a strong argument for some kind of
assistance being given thanks james very
much for sharing with us