>>> WELCOME BACK. PANEL IS HERE.
MATT BLIE, HELENE COOPER,
PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT FOR "THE
NEW YORK TIMES."
OUR NBC NEWS, HEIDI PREZBELA AND
APPEARING ON "MEET THE PRESS"
FOR THE FIRST TIME WHICH IS AN
ERROR ON MY PART, EDITOR OF
COMMENTARY.
COMMENTARY. I FEEL LIKE I’M SAYING THIS.
YOU’RE THE FIRST TIMER SO I’LL
GIVE YOU THE FIRST SHOT AT THIS.
I WANT TO PUT UP PEGGY NOONAN
FROM THIS WEEKEND BECAUSE IT WAS
A FASCINATING COLUMN OVERALL
SORT OF TRYING TO EXPLAIN TRUMP
WORLD AND WHAT SHE SAW.
HERE’S WHAT SHE WRITES ON THE
CONE HEARINGS.
CONE HEARINGS. WHAT IS AMAZING, THOUGH, SUCH A
REBUKE AND SUCH AN ATTACK ON THE
ESSENTIAL NATURE OF A PRESIDENT
AND BY AN INTIMATE HAS NO EQUAL.
HE DIDN’T SAY RICHARD NIXON WAS
THE CANCER.
THE CANCER. J. POD?
J. POD? >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. SO MICHAEL COHEN, IF THE FDNY,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK OR
WHATEVER HADN’T BROKEN DOWN THE
DOOR OF HIS HOTEL ROOM IN THE
REGENCY HOTEL, YOU KNOW, IN THE
SUMMER OF 2018, WOULD HE HAVE
SAID THESE WORDS THAT HE SAID
THIS WEEK?
THIS WEEK? OF COURSE NOT.
HE THREW HIMSELF ON THE MERCY OF
THE WORLD THAT HATES TRUMP
HAVING SPENT TEN YEARS DOING
NOTHING BUT DEFENDING TRUMP.
SO HIS, YOU KNOW, HIS MORALISTIC
ATTACK ON TRUMP HAS TO BE TAKEN
WITH, YOU KNOW, NOT A GRAIN OF
SALT, BUT A MOUNTAIN OF SALT.
HAVING SAID THAT, THE WEIRD
THING I THINK ABOUT THE COHEN
TESTIMONY IS THAT DESPITE JIM
JORDAN SAYING HE WAS A TERRIBLE
LIAR, IN SOME WAYS HE HELPED
TRUMP ON THE LARGER QUESTION OF
RUSSIA AND IMPEACHMENT BY SAYING
THAT TRUMP DID NOT FORMALLY --
DID NOT SAY I WANT YOU TO LIE TO
CONGRESS BY SAYING THAT HE HAD
ATTEMPTED TO PURCHASE THE
VIDEOTAPES MENTIONED IN THE
DOSSIER AND HAD DECIDED FROM
THAT EXPERIENCE THAT THEY DID
NOT EXIST SO, YOU KNOW, THAT AND
A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS AS
SOMEBODY WHO SAID I HATE TRUMP
NOW AND HE’S TERRIBLE AND
EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE, AND IF
HE IS SUCH A CONFIRMED LIAR, WHY
DIDN’T HE SAY TRUMP TOLD ME TO
LIE?
LIE? IF HE’D SAID IT, TRUMP WOULD BE
SUBJECT TO THE POSSIBLE CHARGE
OF SUBORNATION OF PERJURY, BUT
HE DIDN’T SAY IT.
>> HEIDI, MICHAEL COHEN’S
CREDIBILITY INCREASED BECAUSE HE
HELPED TRUMP OUT OF A FEW
THINGS.
THINGS. >> HE DID.
TO JOHN’S POINT THERE WERE A
NUMBER OF CASES WHERE HE
ACTUALLY DEFENDED THE PRESIDENT
AGAINST PRETTY NASTY ACCUSATIONS
SHARP THROWN AROUND LIKE THE
ELEVATOR TAPE, THE RUMORS THAT
HE HAD SOMEHOW HIT MELANIA IN
THE ELEVATOR AND HE BUILT UP HIS
CREDIBILITY BECAUSE HE WAS 100%
TRASHING TRUMP AND ESPECIALLY ON
THE COLLUSION POINT AND HE SAID
HE DIDN’T SEE EVIDENCE OF
COLLUSION.
COLLUSION. SO HE WASN’T 100% TRASHING THE
PRESIDENT AND THAT MADE HIM MORE
CREDIBLE ON THE NEW THINGS THAT
HE DID BRING TO THE TABLE WHICH
WAS THE NEWS HERE THAT THERE HAD
BEEN HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS AND NOT
JUST ONE, THAT WERE MADE
THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE COURSE OF
THIS PRESIDENCY.
THIS PRESIDENCY. HE ALSO SUGGESTED THAT THERE IS
ANOTHER SEPARATE CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION GOING ON AT THE
FDNY.
FDNY. HE SAID THERE WERE THINGS HE
COULDN’T TALK ABOUT AND
TANTALIZINGLY, HE MENTIONED THE
FINAL CONVERSATION WITH TRUMP AS
SOMETHING THAT WAS IN THAT SCOPE
AND THAT HE COULDN’T TALK ABOUT.
>> THAT WAS THAT, MATT, AND
MAYBE A PARDON.
LET ME ASK THIS.
IMPEACHABLE?
IMPEACHABLE? IS HE JOHN DEAN?
JOHN DEAN BROUGHT THE END OF THE
NIXON PRESIDENCY.
NIXON PRESIDENCY. DID MICHAEL COHEN?
>> LOOK, I AGREE AND HE’S A LIAR
AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT AT
FACE VALUE AND I THOUGHT AND I
AGREE WITH PEGGY NOONAN ON THIS,
IT WAS THE PORTRAIT OF THE
PRESIDENT HE PAINTED
PARTICULARLY IN HIS OPENING
STATEMENT THAT I THOUGHT PERHAPS
IS MORE DAMAGING IN THE END THAN
ANY PARTICULAR THING ON WHICH HE
EXONERATED THE PRESIDENT.
TALKING ABOUT THE PRESIDENT
LOOKING AT HIM AND SAYING IF I
WAS GOING TO GO TO VIETNAM, DO
YOU THINK I’M STUPID?
THE PRESIDENT WHO HE SAYS NEVER
INDICATED HE LOVED THE COUNTRY
OR WANTED TO MAKE IT BETTER.
THIS IS A GUY WHO SPENT YEARS
AND YEARS AT HIS SIDE.
I THINK THERE IS A LINGERING,
CUMULATIVE IMPACT OF THAT
INTIMATE PORTRAIT AND DAMNING A
PORTRAIT BY SOMEONE SO CLOSE TO
THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT. I DO THINK WE’LL GET TO
IMPEACHMENT AT SOME POINT
BECAUSE I DON’T THINK DEMOCRATS
WILL HOLD THEMSELVES BACK BEFORE
2020, AND I DON’T THINK IT
MATTERS AND NOTHING WILL DRIVE
THIS PRESIDENT FROM OFFICE AND
YOU HAVE TO THINK OF HIM.
HE’S NOT NIXON.
HE’S MARION BARRY.
A GUY WHO LOVES -- HE LOVES IT,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? HE WANTS THE FIGHT.
>> HE DOES.
>> HELENE, THIS WAS GREAT,
WASHINGTON POST ON WEDNESDAY,
WHY DID HOUSE REPUBLICANS JUST
ATTACK COHEN AND NOT DEFEND
TRUMP?
TRUMP? HERE IS WHAT A WHITE HOUSE
REPUBLICAN SAID, TRUTHFULLY IT
IS TOUGH TO IGNORE SOME OF THE
GROSS AND IMMORAL BEHAVIOR BY
THE PRESIDENT SAID ONE SENIOR
HOUSE REPUBLICAN, BUT THERE WAS
NO DEFENSE.
NO DEFENSE. >> THAT WAS ONE OF THE EXTRO ERD
EXTRAORDINARY THINGS THAT CAME
OUT OF THE MICHAEL COHEN
HEARINGS, NO, YOU DIDN’T HEAR
PEOPLE SAYING TRUMP ISN’T A
RACIST AND YOU DIDN’T HEAR
PEOPLE SAYING LET ME DEFEND THE
PRESIDENT AND YOU HEARD HIM
DOING A CONSORTED -- A CONCERTED
EFFORT AND TO BREAK DOWN HIS
CREDIBILITY IS CLEARLY THE
REPUBLICAN STRATEGY.
REPUBLICAN STRATEGY. I USED TO COVER BUDDY SEANCY.
YOU COMPLETELY BLEW ME UP,
THAT’S A GREAT COMPARISON.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THOUGHT
WAS A LITTLE BIT SAD ABOUT THE
REACTION TO THE COHEN HEARING IS
THAT THE UNITED STATES -- PEOPLE
IN THE UNITED STATES NOW ARE SO
IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAMPS.
YOU HAVE THE LEFT WAY OFF TO THE
LEFT AND NOBODY IS LISTENING TO
FACTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT
THAT’S PRESENTED.
THAT’S PRESENTED. PEOPLE ARE NOT COMING OUT AND
SAYING, WOW, HE SAID THIS, HE
SAID THAT.
SAID THAT. IT’S ALL BEEN BAKED INTO THE
PROCESS AND PEOPLE HEAR WHAT
THEY WANT TO HEAR.
>> I THINK JIM JORDAN SET OUT
THE COURSE FOR THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY FROM HERE ON OUT WHICH IS
I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANY
OF THIS.
OF THIS. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TAX CUTS.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
ECONOMY.
ECONOMY. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT FOREIGN
APPROXIMATELY
APPROXIMATELY POLICY.
POLICY. WHAT WE HAVE HERE BEGINNING IN
1998 WHEN BILL CLINTON GOT INTO
SO MUCH TROUBLE, POLLING STARTED
SEPARATING OUT THE PRESIDENT’S
PERSONAL JOB APPROVAL FROM HIS
WORK JOB APPROVAL, REMEMBER?
CLINTON’S NUMBERS WENT WAY DOWN
ON HIS PERSONAL JOB AND STAYED
THERE, BUT HIS WORK JOB APPROVAL
WAS HIGH.
WAS HIGH. THIS IS THE TRACK TO RE-ELECTION
FOR TRUMP IF THERE IS A TRACK TO
RE-ELECTION FOR TRUMP AND IF THE
NATIONS WERE CONVINCED THAT THE
NEWS IS GOOD AND TRUMP’S
CHARACTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
WHETHER OR NOT HE IS MANAGING
THE COUNTRY EFFECTIVELY THEY
WILL HAVE A CASE TO MAKE FOR HIS
RE-ELECTION AND THAT REQUIRES
THEM TO SAY I DON’T WANT TO TALK
ABOUT ANY OF THIS.
>> FINAL POINT.
>> WHEN IT COMES TO IMPEACHMENT,
JUST LISTEN TO JERRY NADLER, THE
CHIEF DEMOCRAT ON THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE AND THEY HAVE TO SAY
POINT-BLANK, WE NEED MORE
BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.