When you become pregnant, Listeria is one of the first things that'll you hear about.
And, everybody will be telling you to avoid it.
So today, I've invited my friend, colleague and Listeria guru Claire Ward to come and
tell us all about Listeria and we're really going to get in the guts of it.
Get that, my little joke...
Get into the guts of Listeria.
So if you want to know more about what Listeria is and what to do to avoid it, stay tuned.
Well hey Claire, fantastic to have you on the show.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Thanks for having me.
My pleasure!
So can you tell us, how did you come to be such an expert in Listeria?
Well, I've been a Dietitian for a fair while, so nearly 20 years.
And one of my roles, I worked as a food service and a food safety Dietitian for about 12 years.
I learnt a lot obviously, and I did a lot of study and a lot of research into food safety,
Listeria, food-borne illnesses and things like that.
So I focused on that for a fair while, and in my private practice at the moment, I do
see people who are pregnant, and obviously Listeria is one of the things that they're
concerned about.
Absolutely.
And so can you tell us, what is Listeria?
That's a very good question, I think a lot of people hear about Listeria and they go
oh I can't have it, I can't have it, I don't know what it is.
But it's actually a bacteria that can cause food-borne illnesses.
The reason we're so concerned about it, is if you kill that bug, you kill every bug,
so all the bugs under it.
It can grow in all different conditions, it can grow in a salt condition, it can lay dormant
in anaerobic and aerobic conditions.
So it's a really hard one to kill.
So for people who might not know, what does aerobic and anaerobic conditions mean?
So that's just whether it's got carbon dioxide or oxygen in there, so I suppose the key point
is that it can grow at all levels, at any time, on all foods.
So it's a nasty little sucker!
It is a nasty sucker.
So if you kill that one, you kill them all.
SO that's why we kill to the highest point and then we're protecting from all bugs then.
Which is good!
Yeah, fantastic.
So why is it such a concern during pregnancy in particular?
Look, it does affect the vulnerable population, so it does affect pregnant women, the elderly
and anyone with a low immune system.
But the reason it's so important during pregnancy, is that if a pregnant women does get this
bug, essentially there's an 80% mortality rate.
So, look that sounds quite scary.
Very scary.
However, one thing to remember is that it's not that common and last year or in previous
years, there's about 80 cases a year diagnosed.
That's in Australia, including everyone not just pregnant women, so it's not that common.
But if you do get it, it can be quite deadly and I suppose the problem is also that it
can range from either 3 days to 3 months.
So if you get it, it's really hard to pinpoint where you've got it from, cause it might take
3 months to come up in the system.
It's not actually catching a bug is it?
It's not catching a bug, no.
It's from eating foods that contain this bacteria, or we haven't heated foods up enough to kill
the bacteria.
Because that's the only way you can kill this bug.
Right, okay.
So it's foods that actually contain this bacteria.
It comes from the soil, it's a bacteria found naturally in soil.
And when you say 80 cases a year in Australia, do you have any idea of the stats about what
percentage of those are pregnant women?
No, they haven't fine-tuned it that much.
It was actually 84 cases in 2016.
So no, they haven't actually got that, because I suppose it's so varied, because it's 3 days
to 3 months, it's like well are they pregnant, are they trying to pregnant, have they had
the baby?
So they've just put it all into one.
There's no actual stat for pregnancy alone.
How would somebody know if they've got Listeria?
So, they're very flu-like symptoms, which is why it's so hard.
A headache, dizziness, vomiting and that's one of the hardest things because you don't
really know.
It's just like all other food poisoning, if you've got food poisoning, it has similar
sorts of symptoms.
You don't really know, and I think that's the hardest.
Obviously you will miscarriage if you have a baby, if you're pregnant.
If you aren't pregnant, you'll just have the food poisoning symptoms.
So it's a very hard one to know if you've got or don't have.
So you know when you get food poisoning, you know you've gone to your local Chinese and
eaten a something a bit dodgy and you end up with loose bowels and vomiting that night.
Is it those types of symptoms, or not always?
Yes, I think so, yeah.
If I had been to Chinese and I felt like that the next day, I would absolutely go and see my GP
You can get tested, which can help you that way.
I would definitely if I was vomiting after being out, I think vomiting is a big one.
A little bit of diarrhoea here and there, you know you could be passing any sort of bug.
Yeah if you're vomiting as well, and you're getting dehydrated and those sorts of things,
I would definitely take that under investigation.
In terms of...
To put it into context, because it does sound very scary.
Who else are vulnerable communities who might be at risk of Listeria?
The aged care, the elderly and aged care facilities.
On the news you may have heard of the rockmelon incident that recently went on.
It affected some old people, and they did die.
And look, they are definitely at high risk.
People of low immunity, who are having cancer treatments or chemotherapy, they're also at
risk.
So anyone with a low immunity, is at risk.
Being an unborn foetus, that is obviously a low-immunity person as well.
So hypothetically, say you and I went out to eat rockmelon together.
I'm pregnant, and you're not pregnant.
The rockmelon had Listeria, it wouldn't affect you in any way?
Maybe not, it depends on the dosage.
It's very dose-dependent.
Even if we had the same dose?
Yes.
But it could affect me?
If could affect your baby.
Being pregnant, yeah.
So you, actually maybe not.
But the baby, because it's the vulnerable one, it could affect the baby.
Yes, okay.
Fantastic, thank you for helping to clarify that.
Now in terms of tips for women who are pregnant, who are obviously wanting to avoid exposure
to Listeria, what would you recommend?
Because there is a lot of 'Listeria hysteria' as well.
There is, and that's the scary part.
You don't want to be avoiding all healthy foods because of it, but you can just take
precautions.
Making sure your meat is cooked through is a big one, the bug is killed when your food
is heated above 72 degrees for longer than two minutes.
Two minutes, right.
If it's heated, you know it's cooked through, you're not having raw meat, raw fish, raw
anything essentially, then you're going to have a better chance of obviously killing
the bug, and there not even being a bug there.
Just avoiding soft cheeses, rather have hard cheese.
Cheese is good for protein, and calcium, and very important during pregnancy.
Just avoiding the soft sort of cheeses that haven't been pasteurised.
Things like rockmelons, foods that you can't really wash or clean properly.
Rockmelons have little dimples in the skin, so you can't really wash them properly which
is why the bacteria gets stuck in it.
So they're high-risk foods.
Bean sprouts as well.
If you're ever concerned, heat your food thoroughly and you should be okay.
Deli meats, things that could be sitting out there for a while, we're not really sure how
long they're been there.
They should be right from a food safety point of view in regards to meeting standards and
HACCP regulations.
But for a vulnerable population group, they may not be just right.
And what about food hygiene?
Have you got any tips around that?
Yeah, food hygiene is a big one, even at Christmas time when people make a salad, they leave
it on the bench at 40 degrees and it's sitting out there for 6 hours while we snack all afternoon.
They're the things I would be trying to avoid, and you know making sure your chopping board
is cleaned properly, you use a dishwasher to clean your utensils.
All those sort of things absolutely, you can take that extra care.
So cleaning your chopping board properly, what's properly!?
Yeah that's an interesting one.
I like to encourage people to obviously wash their chopping board, but actually using hot
water, hot 72 degrees above water, and scrubbing it with a bit of detergent of course.
Some people even put some salt on there, but the salt doesn't necessarily kill, however.
But the temperature will, so it's that hot water that's actually the important part in
that whole process.
Okay, fantastic.
Anything else that you would like to tell our listeners today?
I think one of the main things is, don't be scared of it.
It's really important that you be aware of it, but not to restrict your food because
of it.
Rather just take a bit of extra care and when you're at a restaurant, rather than ordering
rare meat, order well-cooked meat.
It's just those basic sort of things, and if you are concerned, speaking to a Dietitian
who is aware of this and specialises in pregnancy is a really good idea.
Thanks so much Claire, we're going to put Claire's contact details in the shownotes,
so if anybody would like to have a consultation with her or speak to her for more advice.
Just have a look in the comments below, and you'll be able to find it all there.
It's obvious from this conversation with Claire, that Listeria is something important that
we do need to be considering during pregnancy, but as we said, without stressing too much
about it.
Now I have a question for you.
What I want you to do is to write in the comments box below 'what's one new tip that you've
learnt from Claire that you can use to reduce your Listeria exposure?'.
Because you know that writing things down really helps to cement it in our brain, so
don't just think it, but actually type it in the comments box below and that will help
you have some accountability for achieving that.
And make sure that you do share this video with any of your other friends that are pregnant,
if you think they might get some benefit out of this information as well.
Thanks again for joining us again today, it's great to see you as always and we look forward
to catching up with you next week.