ADAM: WELCOME BACK TO CLOSE UP.
LAST WEEK GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU BACKED ALL 48 RECOMMENDATIONS MADE BY THE COMMISSION ON LAW ENFORCEMENT ACCOUNTABILITY, COMMUNITY, AND TRANSPARENCY.
SOME REFORMS ARE ALREADY UNDERWAY, OTHERS WILL BE MADE SOON VIA EXECUTIVE ORDER, AND THE LEGISLATURE WILL HAVE TO WEIGH IN ON POTENTIAL LAW CHANGES.
HERE TO DISCUSS THE ROAD AHEAD, JAMES MCKIM, PRESIDENT OF THE MANCHESTER NAACP, AND EDDIE EDWARDS, A RETIRED POLICE CHIEF, BOTH MEMBERS OF THE LEACT COMMISSION.
THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING, GENTLEMEN.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
ADAM: LET’S START WITH YOU, MR.
MCKIM.
THE GOVERNOR IS MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS AGENDA AT THE STATE LEVEL.
BUT THERE’S A LOCAL ELEMENT TO THIS AS WELL.
HOW DO YOU BRING THIS FORWARD AT CITY AND TOWN LEVEL?
>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.
THE WORK WE GET REALLY HIGHLIGHTED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT CAN HAPPEN AT THE STATE LEVEL AND THE LOCAL LEVEL.
AND I THINK WHAT WE TRIED TO RECOMMEND TO THE GOVERNOR WAS TO DO WHATEVER HE CAN TO ENCOURAGE LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TO THE AS -- TO BE AS GOOD AS THEY CAN AT MAKING SURE THEY HAVE TRAINING
THAT IS AVAILABLE, NOT JUST THROUGH PTSC, BUT ALLOWING THEM TO TAKE THE TRAINING THEY NEED TO BE UP ON DE-ESCALATION TECHNIQUES.
WHAT THE GOVERNOR CAN DO IS THINK SOME STRONG RECOMMENDATIONS TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS TO HOW THEY SHOULD OPERATE AND ENCOURAGE THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS THAT TOWNS
MIGHT NEED TO HAVE THEIR FORCES GO THROUGH THAT PAGING PROCESS.
ADAM: MR. EDWARDS, FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE HOW MUCH , BUY-IN DO YOU THINK THESE RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENTS?
>> I THINK BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS COMMISSION WAS INSTRUCTED -- CONSTRUCTED, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE GOVERNOR CREDIT FOR GIVING THE TIME TO PULL THIS COMMISSION TOGETHER AND HAVING THE NUMBER
OF VOICES REFLECT IN WHO HAD CONCERNS ABOUT POLICING ACROSS THE SPECTRUM OF THE COMMISSION.
I THINK BECAUSE THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY WAS WELL REPRESENTED, I THINK IT WILL BE WELL RECEIVED.
A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WERE OCCURRING IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WE WERE ON THE LEADING EDGE OF IT, LAW ENFORCEMENT.
ALSO, WHERE WE NEED TO TWEAK, STRENGTHEN AND RESHAPE AND REFORM.
I THINK IT WILL BE WELL RECEIVED AT THE STATE, COUNTY AND LOCAL LEVEL.
ADAM: LET’S TALK ABOUT BIGGER CHANGES THAT COULD BE MADE IF ALL OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE IMPLEMENT IT AND PUT INTO LAW IN SOME CASES.
FIRST, AN INDEPENDENT STATEWIDE OVERSIGHT BODY TO RECEIVE COMPLAINTS ABOUT OFFICERS.
MR. MCKIM, HOW DO YOU ENVISION THIS WORKING, AND HOW MUCH OF THIS ENTITY’S WORK WILL END UP BECOMING PUBLIC?
>> WHAT I ENVISION IS WHAT I TALKED ABOUT.
THAT IS AN APARTMENT WITHIN THE INTERNAL -- A DEPARTMENT WITHIN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE THAT IS FOCUSED ON INVESTIGATING MISCONDUCT.
THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME FUNDING ASSOCIATED WITH THAT TO CREATE THAT DEPARTMENT WITH THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO TRULY INVESTIGATE THOSE CASES.
I THINK IT COULD BE VERY WELL RECEIVED AND VERY WELL OPERATED.
IT TAKES A LOT OF THE ONUS OFF OF THE INDIVIDUAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO DO THIS.
FROM MY MIND, IT SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY PUBLIC, IN TERMS OF THE RESULTS OF THE INVESTIGATION.
AS WITH ANY INVESTIGATION, YOU DON’T WANT TO DIE VAULT EVERYTHING THAT IS GOING ON DURING THE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE SPECULATION CAN HAPPEN.
YOU WANT TO HAVE ALL OF THE FACTS IN PLACE BEFORE YOU MAKE INFORMATION PUBLIC.
ADAM: ANY CONCERNS THIS BODY COULD HAVE TOO MUCH POWER OVER POLICE OR IS THIS THE KIND OF OVERSIGHT THAT IS NEEDED?
>> WE EXAMINED THIS PRETTY RIGOROUSLY.
I THINK THE SYSTEM WILL BE VERY EFFECTIVE.
IT WILL BE CREATED IN THE LIGHT THAT WE SEE WITH ATTORNEYS.
JUDGES, PROSECUTORS AND DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE HELD TO A STANDARD.
I THINK IT WILL BE BENEFICIAL TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.
A LOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND PRESIDENTS ARE WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE DUE PROCESS.
WHERE PEOPLE ARE TREATED FAIRLY IN THE PROCESS.
IF AN OFFICER HAS VIOLATED THEIR AUTHORITY, THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
I THINK COMMISSION WAS UNIFORM IN THEIR VOICE ON THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE.
ADAM: LET’S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
THAT IS QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.
IS THE STATUS QUO TOO TILTED FAVOR OF THE OFFICER RIGHT NOW?
>> I THINK I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DID NOT MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT STUDY THIS FURTHER.
WE HEARD SOME TESTIMONY ON IT THAT THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES.
IT IS ACTUALLY COMPLEX.
QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, AS WE HAVE HEARD, IS A FEDERAL POLICY.
AS OPPOSED TO WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS OFFICIAL IMMUNITY WHICH WAS CREATED THROUGH JUDICIAL LAW IN A CASE THAT WAS HERE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.
IT IS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE.
I THINK THERE REALLY DOES NEED TO BE SOME MORE INVESTIGATION ON IT.
ATTORNEY CHUCK DOUGLAS TESTIFIED THAT THERE WERE -- THERE ARE ACTUALLY PROTECTIONS SUFFICIENT IN CURRENT LAW TO PROTECT OFFICERS YET STILL ALLOW FOR CASES TO BE BROUGHT AGAINST THEM
IF THERE WAS POTENTIAL MISCONDUCT.
AS A COMMISSION, WE DID NOT QUITE AGREE ON WHETHER THAT SHOULD BE CARRIED FORTH OR DISCUSSIONS SHOULD BE CARRIED FORTH.
WE COULD HAVE SPENT A LOT MORE TIME ON IT THEN WE DID.
-- THAN WE DID.
IN THE END, WE DECIDED IT WAS TOO COMPLICATED FOR US TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
ADAM: CAN AN OFFICER DO THE JOB IF THEY THINK WAIT A SECOND, I MIGHT GET SUED FOR THIS.
>> WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS.
IT DOES NOT -- DOES NOT PROTECT INCOMPETENCY.
IT DOES NOT PROTECT INTENTIONAL ACTS.
IF YOU PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL FOR HELP FOR YOUR WIFE OR YOUR CHILDREN AND THE OFFICER IS RESPONDING, THINKING THAT I MAY FACE A POTENTIAL LAWSUIT BECAUSE I USED MY DISCRETION IN A WAY
THAT SOMEONE IS GOING TO JUDGE UNDER CONDITIONS WHEN THEY HAVE NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GATHER ALL THE FACTS, BACK IN 1967 WHEN THE DOCTRINE WAS ESTABLISHED, THE OFFICERS ARE
HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, IF A CRIMINAL ACT IS COMMITTED BY A POLICE OFFICER, HE OR SHE IS PROSECUTED.
WE HAVE SEEN CASES LIKE THAT.
THE ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE DEPARTMENT IS AT A HIGH STANDARD.
MOST LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER’S ARE JUDGED BY THEIR PEERS WHEN THEY STEP ON THE LINE.
THE ENTIRE OPINION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTS ON INTEGRITY.
WHEN THAT INTEGRITY IS THREATENED, IT IS A BLACK MARK FOR THE ENTIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY.
I THINK LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ARE MUCH MORE HARSH ON THEIR PEERS WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM.
ADAM: WHEN IT COMES TO THE COMMUNITY BUILDING SIDE OF THIS, WHAT CAN LAW ENFORCEMENT IN NEW HAMPSHIRE DO BETTER TO CONNECT WITH COMMUNITIES OF COLOR?
>> I THINK FOLLOWING THE EXAMPLES OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN NASHUA AND WHAT IS GOING ON IN MANCHESTER.
WE HAD TESTIMONY FROM THE LIEUTENANT FROM NASHUA THAT TALKED ABOUT THE YOUTH PROGRAMS AND THE MERE EFFORT THAT -- MIRROR EFFORT THAT IS HAPPENING THAT IS ENGAGING YOUTH WITH LAW
ENFORCEMENT AND BUILDING THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT ARE SO NECESSARY TO BUILD THAT TRASH -- TRUST IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
THERE HAVE BEEN RECOMMENDATIONS AROUND LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES POSSIBLY I DIDN’T -- IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUALS OR REPRESENTED WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE HAD A FOCUS ON BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN
LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE COMMUNITY.
ADAM: WHAT ABOUT RECRUITMENT , MR. EDWARDS, DO YOU THINK A YOUNG EDDIE EDWARDS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT RIGHT NOW?
>> IT GOES BACK TO WHAT WE SPOKE ON A MOMENT AGO.
SOME OF THE EFFORTS THAT HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN BY COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS.
THEY DEVELOPED THE MIRROR PROJECT.
THOSE PROJECTS -- PROGRAMS WERE DEVELOPED BY COMMUNITY PEOPLE.
I THINK THAT, FOR ME, IT IS A LITTLE UNFAIR FOR ME TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
EVEN AS A YOUNG MAN, I VIEW LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AS HEROES.
THEY INTERVENED IN MY LIFE IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
PERHAPS MORE SO THAN MOST, THEY STOPPED THE PAIN THAT I WAS EXPERIENCING.
THEY WERE VERY KIND AND GENTLE TO ME.
I HAVE ALWAYS HAD AN AFFECTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.
THOSE TYPES OF OFFICERS WHO ARE ENGAGED IN THAT WAY, WHO OVERSEE THAT PROGRAM, WE ARE WORKING ON FRAMING SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THAT ALL POLICE OFFICERS RECEIVE THAT TYPE OF TRAINING.
WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IS THE TYPE OF POLICE AN MEN AND WOMEN WHO WORK IN LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO WANT TO INVEST IN THE COMMUNITY AND HAVE RESPECT FOR THE COMMUNITY.
I THINK THESE OFFICERS WORK HARD EVERY DAY TO DO THAT.
THAT IS WHY I VOWED TO BE A MEMBER OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.
ADAM: ONE OF THE ROMANTIC IDEALS OF AMERICA IS E PLURIBUS UNUM, OUT OF MANY, ONE.
ALL OF US COULD LEARN FROM THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WENT FORWARD WITH YOU GUYS.
JAMES AND EDDIE EDWARDS, THANK