>> IN OUR FASCINATION AROUND HERE WITH THE STORY OF JIMMY
HOFFA, NEVER REALLY GOES OUT OF
STYLE.
STYLE. WITH THE NEW FILM "THE IRISHMAN"
THE STORY IS FRONT AND CENTER
NATIONALLY AGAIN.
NATIONALLY AGAIN. I HOPE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO SEE
STEVE GARAGIOLA’S DOCUMENTARY,
HEAD TO CLICKONDETROIT.COM TO
GIVE IT A LOOK AND JUST AS
RECOMMENDED THE PODCAST THAT
STEVE HAS PUT TOGETHER.
HE’S HERE TO TALK ABOUT ALL
THINGS HOFFA.
THINGS HOFFA. THIS IS FASCINATING.
I’M GOING TO ASSUME LIKE ME,
WE’VE BEEN AROUND HERE A LONG
TIME, YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW THE
JIMMY HOFFA STORY.
>> FOR ME, QUITE THE CONTRARY.
I KNEW ABOUT HOFFA WHAT I THINK
MOST PEOPLE KNOW.
I THOUGHT, WELL, I’VE BEEN HERE
A WHILE AND DONE ALL OF THESE
FBI DIGS.
FBI DIGS. I KNOW HE WAS A LABOR LEADER.
I KNOW HE HAD SOME KIND OF MOB
CONNECTIONS.
CONNECTIONS. I KNOW HE MADE ENEMIES WITH BAD
PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY MADE HIM GO
AWAY.
AWAY. >> DEVIN: RIGHT.
>> AND I GUESS THAT’S ALL I NEED
TO KNOW AND THEN WE STARTED
LOOKING AND, YOU KNOW, I KEEP
DESCRIBING IT AS A RABBIT HOLE.
YOU GO DOWN THE HOLE AND THE
TUNNELS GO TO NEW YORK TO
JOHNNIE DEAL, TO NEW ORLEANS, TO
CARLOS MARCELLA, TO THE KENNEDY
ASSASSINATION, TO NIXON.
>> IT’S ALL OVER THE PLACE.
>> HE HAD HIS HAND IN SO MANY
PLACES AND IT’S BEEN INTERESTING
AND FUN.
AND FUN. >> DEVIN: IT’S HARD TO MAKE
FICTION THIS GOOD.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> DEVIN: WHAT’S REAL.
BECAUSE THE CHARACTERS HE WAS
SURROUNDED BY, THESE ARE ALL
RIGHT OUT OF ELMORE LEONARD.
GUYS NAMED THREE FINGERS AND THE
WEASEL.
WEASEL. >> FRANKIE THREE FINGERS
COPPOLA, AND WE WE STUMBLED ON
THEM.
THEM. AND MARVIN ELKEN, AND ANYONE
NAMED MARVIN THE WEASEL.
HE WAS UP IN TORONTO AND THE
STORIES HE SHARED ABOUT THE GUYS
IN THE BACK SEAT EVERY DAY WITH
HOFFA AND HOW HE WISHED EVERY
DAY THERE WAS A GLASS PARTITION
THERE SO HE COULDN’T HEAR WHAT
HE WAS HEARING.
[LAUGHTER]
[LAUGHTER] >> AMAZING STORIES.
>> DEVIN: AND YOU AND I WERE
TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU
COMPLIMENTARY GET THE NICKNAME
THE WEASEL.
THE WEASEL. THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE
CHARITABLE THAN WE CAN FIGURE
OUT.
OUT. THE KENNEDY PORTION OF THIS IS A
PART THAT I ABSOLUTELY HAD NO
CLUE, THE RANCOR THAT EXITED
BETWEEN JOHN AND BOBBY KENNEDY
AND JIMMY HOFFA.
>> AND AN AIDE TO JOHN AND
KENNEDY AND COINED THE PHRASE
THE BLOOD FEUD.
THIS WAS NOT POLITICAL.
THIS WAS PERSONAL HATRED FOR
THEM.
THEM. AND THEY CAME HARD AT HIM, AND
BOBBY KENNEDY AS SUCH MADE IT A
LIFE MISSION TO PUT JIMMY HOFFA
IN PRISON.
IN PRISON. AND IT WAS TO PUT HOFFA IN
PRISON.
PRISON. HOFFA ALLEGEDLY, NEVER PROVEN,
ALLEGEDLY CONTACTED A GUY ED
PARTON, TO BLOW UP BOBBY
KENNEDY’S HOME WITH HIS FAMILY
IN IT AND HE WOULDN’T DO IT.
IT WAS MORE THAN RANKOR AND
BORDERED ON HOMICIDE.
>> AND HOFFA’S FINGERPRINTS ARE
ON THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION.
AND ONCE IT WAS DETERMINED A
CONSPIRACY.
CONSPIRACY. AND NO GREAT CONSPIRACY
INVOLVING CIA AND CASTRO AND
CUBANS.
CUBANS. A MOB HIT THAT JIMMY HOFFA MAY
HAVE HAD A HAND IN AND ALL OF
THESE THINGS YOU FIND AS YOU
START DIGGING AROUND.
>> DEVIN: HERE WE GO DOWN THE
RABBIT HOLE.
RABBIT HOLE. >> DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE AGAIN.
>> DEVIN: THERE’S SO MUCH
ATTENTION ABOUT THE MOVIE RIGHT
NOW "THE IRISHMAN", THERE’S A
NUMBER OF THINGS THERE THAT ARE
INACCURATE.
INACCURATE. ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOU TALKED TO
KIND OF GOT IN ROBERT DE NIRO’S
FACE HOW WRONG THE MOVIE WAS.
>> DAN IS THE GUY YOU’RE
REFERRING TO.
REFERRING TO. HE WROTE A BOOK "THE HOFFA
WARS", HE’S CONSIDERED THE
GODFATHER OF THE INVESTIGATIONS.
>> DEVIN: USING THE TERM
GODFATHER ADVISEDLY.
GODFATHER ADVISEDLY. >> YEAH, HE’S ONE OF THE
INVESTIGATORS WE TALKED TO WHO
SAID THE WHOLE PREMISE OF THE
MOVIE, FRANK SHEERAN IS BALONEY.
NUMBER ONE, LA KOESCOSA NOSTRA W
NOT HAVE INVITED AN OUTSIDER WHO
A PLOT LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT’S A
CLOSED CULTURE, LA COSA NOSTRA,
WHETHER IT’S DETROIT, CHICAGO,
NEW YORK.
NEW YORK. NUMBER TWO, FRANK SHEERAN, IF
YOU KNOW WHERE IT WAS WITH HIS
STORY, HE WROTE A BOOK, THE
SHORTHAND VERSION HE WROTE A
BOOK ABOUT LIFE IN THE MOB.
NOBODY WAS INTERESTED.
HE WROTE A COUPLE OF REVISIONS
ON THIS.
ON THIS. AND NOW I REMEMBER, I KILLED
JIMMY HOFFA.
JIMMY HOFFA. THAT WAS IN HIS THIRD EDITION OF
THE BOOK.
THE BOOK. AND THEN BAM, NEW YORK TIMES
BEST SELLER, A MOVIE, AND SO,
NOBODY WHO IS A CREDIBLE
INVESTIGATOR BELIEVES HE DID
THIS.
THIS. >> DEVIN: WELL--
>> IT’S GOOD CINEMA.
>> DEVIN: IN THE MINUTE WE HAVE
LEFT, OUR EYES ROLL IN THE NEWS
ROOM EVERY SIX WEEK SOMEBODY
SAYS THEY’VE GOT A NEW TIP ON
WHAT HAPPENED TO JIMMY HOFFA AND
WHERE HE IS.
WERE YOU ABLE TO ARRIVE AT A
CONCLUSION THAT YOU FEEL LIKE
YOU CAN LIVE WITH?
>> NO.
>> NO. WE DIDN’T -- WE DIDN’T FIND
JIMMY HOFFA.
JIMMY HOFFA. I CAN TELL YOU THAT MUCH.
HIS BODY COULD BE INCINERATED.
HE COULD BE UNDER THE PULASKI
HIGHWAY IN NEW JERSEY, IN
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP.
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP. >> DEVIN: PROBABLY NOT THE
CORNER OF THE END ZONE OF THE
GIANTS STADIUM.
GIANTS STADIUM. WE KNOW IT’S NOT THERE.
>> NOT THERE.
>> DEVIN: AND SIX PARTS OF THE
PODCAST, THE SHATTERED PODCAST
AT LOCAL 4, AVAILABLE WHERE YOU
FIND OUR OWN PODCASTS AND SEARCH
HOFFA.
HOFFA. TERRIFIC WORK, STEVE GARAGIOLA.
CONGRATULATIONS, I KNOW YOU’VE
ENJOYED DOING IT.
>> I LOVED IT.
>> DEVIN: MEET THE PRESS IS UP