My guest tonight is a world-renowned chef,
best-selling author and publisher
and host of the Emmy-winning CNN original series
Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown.
-♪ ♪ -(whoops)
(chuckling)
BOURDAIN: Wow, look at this.
(dog barking)
-I mean... -BOURDAIN: This is a uniquely Italian thing.
-WOMAN: With the Speedos. -BOURDAIN: The banana hammock.
-The what? -Banana hammock.
(laughter)
WOMAN: In America, people don't want to get a tan like this?
BOURDAIN: They don't want to reveal that much
about themselves. It takes the mystery out of...
-They wear the boxers? -Big boxer.
You can keep 'em guessing until it's too late.
(laughter)
Please welcome Anthony Bourdain!
-♪ ♪ -(cheering and applause)
-Welcome to the show. -Thank you. Good to be here.
I've been a fan of yours for so long,
watching you travel around the world.
And it was so amazing this week--
I guess it was, uh, perfect timing--
CNN aired, uh, a bunch of your shows,
Anthony Bourdain, specifically of you in Africa,
around the same time that the president was commenting
on how, uh, these are shithole countries.
-Yeah, what a coincidence. -Right.
You-you tweeted about, uh...
about the president saying "shithole countries."
Why-why did it affect you so much? Why did it offend you
-so much? -Because, apparently, I've wasted my life
going to shitholes. I mean, I've spent 17 years traveling around
to extraordinary places.
I mean, the notion that people don't work hard...
Uh, clearly, no one on his team has been to Nigeria,
uh, where people work like no one I've ever seen.
It was just deeply, I mean, enraging, enraging to me,
because it's a refutation of everything I've seen,
experienced, uh, all the people I've met
and everything I've done in the last 17 years.
Would you say that that's something that has shaped
your experiences, uh, and sh-shaped your-your world view,
is traveling to these places?
Because, I mean, for many people, in their defense,
they see images of Africa and they go,
"Oh, that place doesn't look great."
But on your show, you have gone to, as you say, parts unknown,
some of the most beautiful locations
and some of the most unlikely destinations.
Does it change how you see the people and the places?
Yeah, I mean, I think, uh, Mark Twain said
that travel is lethal to prejudice.
Uh, you know, the extent to which you can walk
in another person's shoes, uh, to see how hard people work
and struggle on a daily basis,
even for very little,
and-and the extent to which you see how much people do,
-how-how well things are going, how... -Right.
I mean, I love showing up in places thinking one thing,
and having those expectations turned on their heads
all the time.
Um, you know, but then again, you know, I'm a fool.
-I think curiosity is a virtue, and, that's not... -That does...
-That's something, uh... -(applause and cheering)
Let me ask you this.
Like, just on-on a food level,
-as a chef... -Mm-hmm.
What do you think America would be like
if there were no food... like, if there were no foods
from any of these other countries?
Well, to start with, you know,
good old American Southern food, as we know it,
you know, classic Americana wouldn't exist.
I mean, that...
If you spent any time in Ghana,
you see exactly where, you know...
food that we associate...
tend to associate on Food Network
with, you know, old white ladies-- we...
-This is African food, you know. -(laughter)
So, look,
the history of the world is on your plate.
-Right. -Every plate of food is an expression of-of a long...
often a long struggle, uh, a long story,
and I guess that's one of the satisfactions,
one of joys of traveling and eating as you...
You find out who's cooking and why
-and where these things come from. -Right.
Um, I mean, I grew up, uh, in the early '60s.
American food then-- your options were extremely limited.
You know, so the more we have people
from somewhere else bringing their food chain
and ingredients and traditions, uh, life only gets better.
When you... when you look at that-that statement--
the food telling you a story about the people,
not just the people who are preparing it,
but the people who are eating it,
which I think is a beautiful statement,
if someone was to eat cheeseburgers
-every day, all the time... -(laughter)
...what do you think that would say about them
and their culinary tastes as a person?
-239 pounds, apparently. -(laughter)
(applause and cheering)
-Uh... -The, um...
You know I think it's worth noting.
It is reported that, uh,
President Trump, in his year in Washington D.C.,
which is a very good restaurant town,
has never been to any other restaurant
-than his steakhouse at the Trump Hotel. -Wow.
Where he eats well done steaks with ketchup.
-You're hurting me. -I know. I know. -(laughter)
-I'm doing this on purpose. -That hurts.
Uh, I'm interested though.
Do you think he can use chopsticks?
(audience groaning, chuckling)
That-that sounds like an insult.
-(laughter) -But it's a valid question.
-I'd be curious to know. -If that was, like, on the test
to determine whether or not you could be president...
-(laughter) -I think America might be, like,
calling him President Pence right now.
-(laughter) -Let's-let's move on
and talk about, um, you know,
the journey that life has taken you on.
Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown
has taken you on many journeys.
You know, you've grown as a person.
Um... one of the more painful
and-and, I would think, interesting journeys
you've taken in your life happened just very recently,
-with regards to the #MeToo movement... -Mm-hmm.
happening, uh, not just in America
but in many parts of the world.
Your girlfriend was one of the people
who first came out and exposed a story
-regarding Harvey Weinstein. -Mm-hmm.
Your comment posts that were really interesting,
because not only were you supportive,
you felt disappointed in yourself
because there were many women you...
had now heard stories from who didn't tell you the stories,
-and you regarded them as friends. -Yeah.
Why were you disappointed in yourself?
(sighs): Um...
You know, I came out of a brutal, oppressive business
that was historically unfriendly to women.
Um... I knew a lot of women, it turned out,
who had stories about their experiences,
about people I knew, who did not feel I was the sort of person
they could confide in.
And suddenly, because of my association with Asia,
people were talking to me.
And, in fact, I had started speaking about it.
I have a sense of real rage.
I mean, I'd like to say that I...
I arrived at... I was always enlightened in some way,
or that I am an activist, or virtuous,
but, in fact, you know, I have to be honest with myself.
I met one extraordinary woman
with an extraordinary and painful story,
and, uh, who introduced me to a lot of other women
with extraordinary stories, and suddenly it was personal.
And, uh, you know, that... that woke me...
To the extent that I ever woke up, that...
that certainly had an effect.
So, you know, I think, like a lot of men,
I'm reexamining my life.
Uh, you know, I get...
I wrote sort of the meathead Bible
-for, uh, for restaurant employees and chefs, -Right.
um, and, uh, you know, I look back,
like I hope a lot of men in that industry,
and say, you know, not so much what did I do or not do,
but what did I see and... and what did I let slide,
what did I not notice?
Um, you know, I think that's something
that people are gonna have to really take into account now.
Yeah, it is something that the movement has definitely demanded
of men in all industries.
And I think what was particularly painful was
you expressed it so honestly,
you know, when Mario Batali's story came out,
and then other chefs came out, and these were people
who you regarded as friends, and these are people
who you know, in a nuanced world,
people struggle to understand that may still be a friend.
But-but how do you grapple with that?
Like, how do you wrap your head around that?
What do you aim to do going forward?
Will you go, like, "As Anthony Bourdain,
"I have a platform, I have a, you know, an imprint.
"I have access to this world, uh, you know,
of-of chefs and of restaurants..."
-What do you aspire to now? -Well, it-it-it,
it's been a long time since I've been in the--
it's been about 20 years since I've been in the industry,
and I have been removed from it.
But, I mean, you know, look,
no matter how much I admire someone,
um, or respected their work,
uh, you know, I-I'm pretty much
Mean the Merciless on this issue right now.
I'm not in a, you know, I'm not in a forgiving, uh,
forgiving state of mind.
I mean, that shit ain't okay.
(cheering and applause)
The...
The business that you are in now, involves,
not just traveling around the world, but helping people
of diverse backgrounds have a voice,
writing cookbooks, telling their stories
about their parts that are unknown.
You, Anthony Bourdain,
you could have just done it for yourself.
Why was it so important for you to get these people involved,
and to help them get their stories out there?
Um, you know, I'm one of those annoying people
if I read a book or see a movie or hear--
listen to a record that I really, really like,
if I could I'd come over to your house
and shove it in your hands and then sit there and,
you know, listen to it with you
-to make sure you don't miss anything, -(laughing)
-or read every line, you know? -That is an annoying person.
-I know those people, yeah. -I, I...
I'm passionate to the point of-of being evangelical
-about things that I love, that give me pleasure, -Right.
and make me excited.
And, um, you know, I didn't really--
I didn't travel, uh, until I was 42 years old.
-I spent my whole working life in kitchens. -Wow.
I'd seen nothing of the world,
so this is all still relatively new to me.
Um, people have been very kind.
We have had-- I-I feel very, very, very fortunate, um,
and so, you know, as a publisher of-of--
as somebody who puts people
from all over the world on television, you know,
to a great extent, it is a selfish act,
-because I'm having fun. -Right.
I enjoy it; it makes me feel good.
Um, but I'm also, you know,
coming to as many people's houses as possible,
-and sitting down next to them, -Right, right.
and watching the movie with them and saying, you know,
I want you to notice this. I want you to see
how awesome these places are.
I don't feel like I'm an advocate or a,
a spokesperson for anything.
I'm just, you know,
I'm an enthusiastic son of a bitch.
And I, and I, you know, I'm having a really good time.
And the things that make me happy, uh,
you know, especially if it's somebody who I feel
is not reaching a wider audience,
well, I'd like to, I'd like to help.
I love that, man.
Anthony Bourdain: enthusiastic son of a bitch.
-Thank you. -Thank you so much for being on the show.
Season 11 of Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown,
premieres in April on CNN.
Anthony Bourdain, everybody.