in our studios in Washington DC
is with those Graham Robb who is
ahead and historian and the author of the book the discovery
middle earth an I ate I
home I read I have not read the entire book but I have read
pieces have it I read about it and this seem
so profoundly fascinating to me that I want to get him on
Graham welcome to the program thank you very much must be here
thanks for joining us middle-earth what is it middle-earth
is not just the land inhabited by a
hope it's hit sir a concept that's common
several mythologies including Celtic mythology
also Norse mythology I which token used for
the whole bitten the Lord of the Rings and a
I thought since I studied and taught tokens College in Oxford
I'm I should be the one to recover that idea
more celtic photos which were came from the idea is that
the earth we live on is the middle a there's also the earth
under need the underworld and the upper
world the heavens the sky above us min so that's what that's why
midler that's that's really the Celtic concept which
which talkin new when he used it and acted
for his own pepsico so tell us the story the Celts
story help swell hammer I actually the story of the the Discovery Middle Earth
my understanding is that this is
the you know where the Cal smarter than we thought basically
button they were they were a lot more sophisticated
them we thought and the problem is that we have
adopted the Roman view of the Celts
Romans wanted to make cuts look ridiculous
because they were afraid of the Celts this is
something so from for gotten had nap now is run
it yeah if it too if i if i may my recollection is that roughly three
thousand years ago the Celts Concord
you're up in organized for trading let people keep their religions and their
languages by and large than two dozen years ago the Romans conquered Europe
UNM
my people keep their religions but not their languages but by and large
and then a thousand years ago basically the catholics conquered Europe in white
at all the old religions is that
is that a thumbnail history is there any accuracy that yes the risk was the Roman
certainly Concord
most def what's now Europe but celts
did have a wars of conquest
but Celts were huge group of very diverse
tribes who this new Celtic DNA was never
single group who are known as the Celts help but simply the word
that was applied to most of the inhabitants live Western Europe when we
talk about Celts were talking about people had a
similar religion a similar language
and the similar customer arts which we
still recognizes as Celtic art now is a
is that language the language that has been revived in Ireland yeah
its third Irish a gaelic
gallic in other Celtic languages Britain are directly related
to when his lawyer what's the rub language for Celtic for the a
well their walls language known as continental Celtic
which mysteriously died out in a pair
the 6th century Haydee and we know very few phrases are in fact almost the only
complete sentence the
ancient continental Celtic that we know is
not 11 P could meet up which means pretty girl give me
be a it I'm in the perfect wonder I which is quite
which isn't research shows that you can roast be an educated people who drank
beer instead of wine were
literate because it's often said that Celts were illiterate and Clearview they
weren't
they could read and write right right and and
my understanding my recollection is again the I apologize for not having
read your book before this interview i
I tried not to do that but on that the Celts were principally interested in
organizing
trade as opposed to building an empire like the Romans did
to some extent yes they had you could call it comes to compile the tickets
it spread by dissemination rather than
conquest and it's not such an unusual
caton in the ancient world that his a lot easier if you're teaching history
just say that
one people complete another and most interesting
case is island because archaeologists have shown
that no new group no large group settled
an island or Concord in the chaotic period
yet the people living in Ireland became Celtic
the question is not where where did they come from and who did they beat
but when did Island or Britain France become
Celtic and when did that happen preceded the Romans
yes long time for the Romans before there was the Roman Empire
moments just a little settlement on the on the type
a.m. rent back 800 BC certainly by 600 BC
there were tribes living in very different parts of Europe you had
what we now recognize this as Celtic art
are you familiar with the week histories and Thomas chevron's thoughts on them in
debates
unearth David human David Hume rather
okay on because the it the week histories
were very popular in the 17 seventies arm
and David Hume was trashing them of course and and and Thomas Jefferson was
in love with them and they were all about the tribal people
%uh England you know before the new year before basically the Norman invasion and
Roman actually before the Roman invasion and but thats
but we're digressing so what what
is the most remarkable thing about the Celts the you would like to share with
us
I think the most novel thing is speaks spent
to which they had the same
science and technology and capabilities has the ancient Greeks
and the he was the Greeks that the Celts were most in
in contact with Greek symbol nyse: Mediterranean
France goal and term
and started dividing the territory up into
grades covering many hundreds have have square miles
and this is the basis call of the
invention that the book describes which on the surface seems
implausible I'm but actually is not unprecedented
and then mention is a
the creation all of
some limes I know this sounds very implausible several hundred miles long
which they used not just to organize their tribal territories
but also to organize their migrations
and their military campaigns and wasn't this
isn't this one the arguments that that's what Stonehenge is
yes exactly per annum much smaller scale stoner
a local ska and one reason the Celts seem to have
disappeared leaving him to spit rocky ledges is that they didn't end to build
in stone
the these were these with a hinges have that the new mates they've built by
minden
instead muscle over I months like survey lines which roads with a speaker brown
we also had long distance roads right and
and and and and last minute we have here that
we're talking with graham robbed the author of the discovery of middle-earth
which is really this
the story of the Celts on who
did they get their science from the Greeks to the grease get it from them
with where the Celts come from
well the Celts a.m. traded with Greeks group set up colin is
alone the Metra train mmm and we know that the
the intellectuals of Celts who called druids
you weren't just preached her had a twenty year long
pension system have regional penetrated
home remarkable graham robbed his book
the discovery have middle earth itself I it's out now
know David Norton and dot com you can find over there
and a sure Graham thanks so much for dropping by
thanks lynn but very dirty talk will be back its 15 minutes past the hour