faith.
White house attorney Eric
Hirschman testified the next
day, January 7, he received a
call from Dr. Eastman.
Here is his account of that
call.
>> The day after, Eastman, he
called me or he texted me -- he
wanted to talk with me and said
he could not reach others.
He started to ask me about
something dealing with Georgia
preserving something.
Uh, and I said to him, are you
out of your F'in mind?
I said I only want to hear two
words coming out of your mouth,
orderly transition.
I do not want to hear any other
words coming out of your mouth,
other than orderly transition.
Repeat those words to me.
>> What did he say?
>> Eventually he said, orderly
transition.
I said, good.
Now I will give you the best
free legal advice.
Get a great defense lawyer
coming you're going to need it.
And -- lawyer, you are going to
need it.
And I hung up on him.
Rep. Aguilar: A few days later,
Dr. Eastman emailed Rudy
Giuliani and requested he be
included on a list of recipients
of a presidential pardon.
Dr. Eastman's email stated, "I'v
decided ie on the pardoned list,
if that is still in the works."
He did not receive a
presidential pardon.
Let's see what he did as a
result when he was deposed by
this committee.
>> I assert my fifth amendment
right, I will not be a witness
against myself.
>> Did the trump legal team ask
you to prepare a memorandum
regarding the vice president's
role in the counting of the
electoral votes on January 6?
Dr. Eastman, did you advise the
president of the United States
the vice president could reject
-- from seven states?
>> The fifth.
>> The first sentence of the
memo starts off by saying, seven
states have transmitted dual
state of electors to the
president of the senate.
Is that statement true?
>> Fifth.
>> Did president trump authorize
you to discuss publicly your
January 4 conversation with him?
>> Fifth.
>> So, is it your position that
you discussed in the media the
direct conversations you had
with the president, but you will
not discuss those same
conversations with this
committee?
>> Fifth.
Rep. Aguilar: Dr. Eastman played
the fifth 100 times -- pled the
fifth 100 times.
Let's hear from a judge who has
opined on whether the president
has been involved in criminal
activity.
Page 36, judge Carter says,
"Based on the evidence, the
court finds it more likely than
not that president trump
corruptly attempted to obstruct
the joint session of congress on
January 6, 2021."
Page 40 says, "Based on the
evidence, the court finds it is
more likely than not that
president trump and Dr. Eastman
dishonestly conspired to
obstruct the joint session of
congress on January 6, 2021."
And page 44, "Dr. Eastman and
president trump launched a
campaign to overturn a
democratic election, in action
unprecedented in American
history.
Their campaign was not confined
to the ivory tower, it was a
coup in search of a legal
theory."
Mr. Jacob, what would've
happened to our democracy if a
vice president pence had gone
along with this plan and a
certified Donald Trump as the
winner of the election?
Mr. Jacob: There would have been
short-term and long-term
effects.
The short-term, I previously
described a constitutional
junkball situation -- jump ball
situation, lawsuits, and who
knows what would've happened in
the streets.
You would've had the vice
president having declared that
the outcomes of the state
elections were incorrect.
So for all of those reasons,
there would have been
significant short term
consequences.
In the long term, we would have
established a situation where a
vice president would have
asserted that one person could
have the authority to determine
the outcome of the elections,
which is antithetical to
everything in our democracy,
antithetical to the rule of law.
And so it would have been, uh,
significant impacts, both in the
short and long-term.
Rep. Aguilar: In a statement
released today, you wrote the
efforts to overturn the 2020
election were "The most
insidious, and calamitous
failures in legal and political
judgment in American history."
What did you mean by that, judge
lutti?
Judge luttig: Exactly what I
said, congressman.
Rep. Aguilar: Thank you, judge.
Thank you, Mr. Jacob.
I yield back.
Chairman Thompson: --
rep. Aguilar: I'm sorry, I want
that back.
Mr. Chairman, this was an
informative hearing, a powerful
hearing.
I am grateful for your
leadership and the leadership of
the distinguished vice chair.
Donald Trump knew that he lost
the 2020 election, but he could
not bring himself to participate
in the peaceful transfer of
power.
So, he latched onto a scheme
that once again he knew was
illegal.
And when the vice president
refused to go along with it, he
unleashed a violent mob against
him.
When we began, I asked how we
got to this place.
And I think the answer to that
question starts with the fact
that people in positions of
power put their political party
before their country.