Film Courage: How much of a perfectionist was Michael Jackson?
Courtney Miller, Filmmaker/Producer/Author/Editor: How much of a perfectionist was Michael Jackson?
Michael was the ultimate perfectionist in fact I learned so much from him because of that. Michael
knew the dance steps (obviously his singing) but he knew the background singers, what they
should be doing when the lights should be coming on the costumes like he knew everybody else's jobs
and there's there's video you can watch it when Michael's performing live
and sometimes like the music is not quite right he'll be performing but he'll just point
point to the music director it's like okay like you better fix it because it's not sounding right
something is off either it's too slow it's too fast the music is on the wrong pitch or whatever
the situation is he's on it and so he was very much a perfectionist and I learned a lot from
him because he doesn't quit until it's perfect he doesn't quit rehearsals until it's right
he keeps going and going and going and that's something that I've picked up from him a lot of
is is we would do like so like back when we were choreographing it together as a team and we would
choreograph something and we thought it was the most amazingly hot thing okay we're going gonna
show mike like showcase this to Michael and we do it and it's like is that the best that it can be
and like you begin to doubt yourself like could it be better like maybe yeah so we go back to the lab
and start working on some more dance steps so that was a question that I have in my mind from time to
time is this the best that it can be whether it's the writing of a script how the scene is
done when I'm when I'm directing it or staging it is this the best that it can be and sometimes
the answer is it's the best that it needs to be right now because we don't have a lot
of time to make it perfect perfect perfect like not everyone has given David Fincher
time and David Fincher money to do 100 takes 99 takes he did 99 takes for the opening of of
the Social Network which is insane 99 takes of that opening scene where they're in the bar back
and forth and he's talking about the the genius level of people who live in china and it's like
okay I get the point of like getting it right but then there's another level of that and you the the
jobs that I've worked on as a director like I'm shooting feature films in 12 days like I don't
have the ability to do more than maybe three or four takes tops and so yeah I can't there's a
there's a give and take to being a perfectionist in this world of of directing when you have a
limited budget and a limited amount of time if you have a limited time and budget then yeah you
can do whatever you want to do but I don't have that luxury on the projects that I've worked on
from the other names that you've worked with because you've worked with similar great talent
how much do you see perfectionism in them yeah and is this a trait that you either develop once
you're there or that's what got them there yeah I would say the trait of perfectionism
is what gets them there the the ability to and the attempt to work hard is what gets
them there but again they're all looking at Michael and that's why a lot of these people
the ushers that I worked with the Beyoncés that I've worked with and other people
the Britney Spears that I work with they surround themselves with people that have worked with
Michael because they want some of that magic and they know that they're going to be pushed
so Beyoncé is known for having that trait now but she got that because she's worked with people that
has worked with Michael Jackson she now she did have it within her and also her father
Matthew like he pushed he pushed those girls like when they were Destiny's Child when it was like
the original four girls like he would make them run around the track singing like full
vocals like he put that in them but for Beyoncé to hire people that have been around the best
she knows what she's doing and she's able to glean from that and now apply within
herself so that's why she's one of the most amazing and talented performers out there
because of that what do you see as the downside to being a perfectionist
the downside of being perfectionist is well I mean your interpersonal relationships I think also you
you could push people too hard because I think there's a limit there's there's a point where you
have this this level of diminishing returns doing it again is not going to make it that much better
so I think when people are at that point when they're only doing it over and over
and over again they don't necessarily look at the fact that okay this is the best it's
going to be either for this performance or today's rehearsal sometimes they don't know when to quit
so it's like this blessing and this curse it's a blessing in the fact that
they're getting the steps as best as they can be but at a certain point it's like okay it's not
going to get much better than this and sometimes people don't know when to stop what did Michael
Jackson teach you about being an artist wow that's a great question what did Michael Jackson teach
me about being an artist I think kind of work on the line of of perfectionists is is to not settle
and to ask is it good enough and I think that's something that I like to deal with all everything
that I work on but I have the other piece to it understanding that at a certain point
you can keep rewriting that script over and over again but at a certain point you got
to get the script out there for people to see it otherwise it will never get made so
I constantly ask myself is it good enough but I understand that a certain point it is good enough
it may not be perfect but it's good enough and I need to get this thing made or I need to get
this thing shot so for for me the big thing that I learned from him is it's just a question isn't
good enough do the same rules apply to dancing did he teach you the same about dancing it's the same
yeah in regards to dancing it's the same rule can it be better is is a constant question that I ask
myself which is why when I learned the dance steps I had to do them with full energy as we again as
a dancer we call that dancing full out I couldn't dance things with half energy because of the fact
that I will never know if it's good enough so how do I know unless I'm actually giving it my all
and then when you kind of start from this level here even just this much of an increase is is
is is head over heels better than a lot of other dancers and so that's why I worked so much
was because of the fact that having that early experience of working with him and
seeing how he worked I was able to push myself to get to heights other dancers couldn't get to
they can maybe spin more than me they can probably jump higher than me but you can't
outperform me and that's one thing that I was never going to be outperformed by another dancer
did you tell yourself that early on yeah I told myself that early on is because some people are
actually born flexible some people are born with the ability to put their leg next to their head so
when they kick it it goes amazingly I wasn't born with that like I was very very tight when I first
started dancing and even though I was able to get my leg here I couldn't get it back here and so
what do you do in that case you just give up like oh I can't dance like this person I can't get my
leg that high I can't spend this many times it's like no what other assets can I bring to the table
that this person possibly can bring well I'm gonna be a hell of a performer so when you when I dance
when we're dancing next to each other you're gonna watch me and that's and that's something that I
brought to the table when I bring that same kind of mindset to to writing into directing and that's
something that I also heard this from from Will Smith where he talks about there's other actors
that are more talented than him better looking than him he says but you will not outwork me
and that's the mindset that I have now which kind of comes from it's like the cousin to what I just
mentioned earlier is the same thing I would not be outworked so when I write 15 pages a day when I'm
when I'm working on a script after I've outlined it I do 15 pages no matter how long it takes if it
takes me 12 hours 15 hours eight hours I will not be outworked I get my 15 pages in that means that
in a week I can finish a full script for one hour tv show in two weeks I can finish my first draft
of my feature film so once it's outlined two weeks my feature film is done my first draft is done
has anyone said Courtney just wanted to take a break for a week
slow down a little yeah have they asked me to slow down from from what in any respect like I see you
working so hard why not just take a break oh well just because I work hard doesn't mean that I don't
take breaks I do take breaks I believe in taking breaks but when I'm working I'm working so one
thing I don't do is I don't I don't constantly work I believe you have to buy out the time
to take care of yourself take care of your body take care of your sanity so I'm not working all
the way through at all I don't believe in that at all but okay so let me give an example so
if if you're the network and you hire me to to write a script and we have a deadline
I'm gonna get that script done earlier than that deadline because I want to get it done
I'm going to put it away like for a day or two come back to it take a look at it then begin my
rewrites on it and then send it in for my notes and the whole shebang but once I'm done with
that project I'm done like I don't I don't keep playing with it I don't mess with it I may have
other ideas that I want to do for other projects that I want to write but it doesn't it doesn't
dominate my life like I believe in working hard and putting that timing for that but I believe in
putting it away and then going to spend time with family or friends or doing other things
if that first job had never happened with Michael Jackson do you think you'd still have been a
professional dancer and be where you are now yeah that's a very good question if the first job for
Michael had never happened the answer to whether or not I would still be a professional dancer is
yes because at that point I was still a very good dancer it just means that I would not have gotten
that job now even if I didn't get remember the time I would still be working with Michael at some
point because and I really believe in this talent can be denied like you can't not deny talent you
may not always get the job you may be the most talented actor actress you may not get that
particular job but you're good there'll be another job that will come around that will allow you to
showcase your skill set so yeah I still would have been a dancer I should have been successful as a
dancer I would have still become a choreographer I just would not have done remember the time
I wouldn't have that story to share but I would have done something else
was there something that a mentor told you early on that you that you really
just that was your mantra you never forgot it and it drove you in everything you did
good question did I have a mentor that told me something that drove me I know you said you had
a dance t-shirt that was similar to the Debbie Allen character who really kind of like expected
the best from you and then they helped you yeah I did have a mentor that was a dance teacher
she never told me anything that necessarily was like profound that allowed me to like
just hone in on that and live my life according to that I think a lot of a lot of what I did was self
I pushed myself and then she helped to validate what I was doing so it wasn't that she said one
particular thing she taught me just a way to live and a way to think in regards to my dancing
just again pushing myself beyond my boundaries like I came in with this mindset of like I was
only a hip-hop dancer and I could only do maybe a little bit of jazz but she pushed
me to believe that no you can do more than that you can do ballet you can do modern you can do
other things so if anything she's the one who kind of opened my head to the fact that
there are other styles of dance that I can learn then I can apply and I can use this as a skill set
when I do go out to audition I can be a lot more well-rounded so she was she helped to change that
mindset but it wasn't one thing that she said it was just how she how she really pushed me
to go after my greatest potential in regards to what I could bring to the dance world.