Chris Gore, Founder/Owner of FilmThreat/Author/Filmmaker: Generally
falling down an endless chasm is the kind of death
that usually a villain experiences leading cause of death amongst villains.
Film Courage: Let's talk about killing iconic characters. When is it okay, when is it a horrible
mistake? Chris: I think it's really important if you want to retain the audience for a franchise
how you kill off an iconic movie character absolutely critical and there are places in movie
history where it's been done right and there are places where it's been done completely wrong and
it's been bungled. It's upsetting to me I mean first of all the death of an iconic fictional
character is already upsetting just on its face let's talk about a case in which it was done
incredibly well in Star Trek The Wrath of Khan. You're taking Leonard Nimoy's character Spock
who he'd played you know for decades by then and you're now killing off this character
you're killing off Spock it's handled so well it's not a wasteful death Spock dies in an act of
self-sacrifice trying to save the crew of the enterprise which he'd done many times before
and skirted death and now he's you know dying in the engine room of the enterprise facing his best
friend Jim Kirk because the important thing to remember and this is something for screenwriters
to keep in mind is that the death of the character is not about the person doing the dying
it's about the reaction of the characters that love the character that's that's going through
and experiencing their death and so what we got to experience as an audience was two longtime
friends and an act of self-sacrifice Spock is dying and he gets to say his final words to kirk
and Kirk gets to see his friend in addition to that that scene is followed up with a funeral
with some glorious music and and I mean we didn't know at the time that they were setting
up a sequel star trek three the search for Spock which kind of gives it away that Spock might be
coming back but be that as it may no one's ever dead in in fiction but the way that that death
was handled with was handled with such respect for all the characters involved we got it was a
satisfying in the sense that we experienced the love that James T Kirk has for his friend Spock
and then the reactions of people who loved Spock and and how they were affected by his death
his death had meaning conversely one of the worst deaths ever handled in movie history
was the death of Han Solo in the force awakens
you know many people were upset with the Last Jedi and how Luke Skywalker's character was handled but
the thing that lost it for me was han solo's death and the Force Awakens
it's not done in any sort of act of self-sacrifice
there isn't a moment where other characters can react to han solo's death
he's simply you know dispensed with by his own son ben solo with a lightsaber to the heart and then
falls down an endless chasm generally falling down an endless chasm is the kind of death that usually
a villain experiences leading cause of death amongst villains I'm sure there's an infographic
somewhere on the internet that will tell you this because that's how the emperor died in
the original return of The Jedi Episode six that's how villains go out falling into an endless chasm
we don't really see the bloodiness it's off screen that's how a villain goes out and to have Han Solo
die in that way and not have a last moment with Chewbacca his loyal friend to not have a last
moment with Princess Leia or Luke Skywalker the audience was completely betrayed of any meaning
for that death was betrayed by not being able to see our beloved characters who just if you're
watching all the movies in in order a few hours ago was alive and well and saving the universe
and my goodness if there was a child and we had just finished watching Return to The Jedi
I don't know that I’d want to skip to the next movie to see what happens because what happened
how the character of Han Solo was treated in his death in the Force Awakens was offensive to me
and told me that this franchise was in the wrong hands because you can't take a character like that
and have him go out that way you know it's not it's not a bad thing and this used to be yes it's
a Hollywood trope you know riding off into the sunset was was a fine way to go right it worked
for Shane it worked it worked for many iconic Hollywood films we're gonna ride off into the
sunset maybe we don't need to see the death we can imagine other adventures with that character but
their story has been told and they can ride off into the sunset but if you're actually going to
kill an iconic character it needs to be done with some level of respect and every way that that
could have been handled in a much better way which would be the to have some final words they could
have even done it in that movie he could have been mortally wounded by ben thinking he could have
turned his son back from the dark side to to the light and he was mortally wounded
and you can imagine a scene with Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia over you know a dying Han Solo
and what the words that might have been said we'll never see that now so I I'm just I'm just offended
by that and so I think that that's if you look at those two cases of Spock and his sacrifice in star
trek ii the wrath of khan just go watch that scene and then you compare it with the scene of Han Solo
meaningless without even a funeral and even the when when when Rey returns and you know
there's the knowledge that Han Solo you know is dead she she just goes to hug Rey not not like
you know Chewbacca who she's known for decades I that I don't understand so I really question
the thinking of some of the people in charge who are overseeing some of these beloved franchises
and how that affected not just children who these movies are really made for children or
for older dudes like myself who saw the classic films as a kid
and would at least like these characters to be treated with some level of respect
george lucas famously consulted a child psychologist when he
toyed with the idea of making Darth Vader the father of the hero of his movie
right he he was I don't know I want to see how this is going to affect kids was there any vetting
done by how this might affect the audience if you're going to handle this death in that way
and in each of the sequel trilogy movies the deaths of the characters
are are are handled with this not not using what I would consider to be a respectful
death which is there needs to be someone to react to that death that is meaningful
in that in that character's life and of course spock's best friend in the universe was Jim Kirk
so when he made that sacrifice it was meaningful and han solo's sacrifice seemed like a waste
something else that occurs to me also related to star wars yes a recurring
topic in conversations that I will have with you and that I have with my friends often
you know maybe it's a form of therapy but but what was interesting was
that when was mapping out the story for the empire strikes back
he realized that the audience would never believe that you would kill Luke Skywalker
so you have this lightsaber duel at the end of the empire strikes back and it's Luke Skywalker
fighting Darth Vader where's the tension because we already know he's making a trilogy
you're not gonna kill off Luke Skywalker so there's really no drama or tension in that scene
so what lucas did he's like okay since they the audience is not gonna believe that I would kill
Luke Skywalker what if the real drama the real threat is that
Luke might turn to the dark side and because he he he doesn't listen to Yoda's advice he doesn't
complete his training he goes off as a as as not a fully trained Jedi and faces his greatest nemesis
who he then learns at the end of the after losing that fight that it's his father could he turn to
the dark side and and believed that the audience might believe that he would turn to the dark side
and and therein lies the tension whereas many of the lightsaber duels that take place in
in the sequel trilogy are are kind of meaningless so it's important for these characters and I
would say that if you're a Disney shareholder you probably care even more if you want a franchise to
to continue to exist and be profitable and you want to sell more Han Solo shirts and whatnot
that that the deaths of iconic movie characters be treated with respect and
it's an opportunity not just for the fictional characters that love that character in that
world to say goodbye it's an opportunity for the audience to say goodbye as well
reminds me of a film I watched recently I think or late 90s early 2000s and it's about a Hollywood
producer and it shows a test screening and Sean Penn is one of the the characters in the film
playing you know he is Sean Penn in the movie and it's the famous thing of at the end he gets
killed but does his dog so they show it to this test audience and they're horrified and it's
a horrific scene it's awful and so that is the big dilemma in the film do we keep that scene in
and I think Robert De Niro plays the Hollywood producer I think it's called like what the hell
happened or something like that [Correction: What Just Happened - 2008]. it's got an all-star cast
but where I'm going with this is test screenings and audience feedback if you feel this way and
other fans do as well why was nothing done why was the respect given to one character dying not
so for the other I mean I mean there's there's actually interesting documentary that I just saw
about Alan Ladd Jr. called lady it's it's actually made by his daughter and of course Alan Ladd Jr
was instrumental in getting star wars made but he famously gave a lot of notes to to movies like the
exorcist and whatnot like he would give very small notes he wasn't like telling filmmakers what to do
he was more like okay we're watching this in a screening room and like okay but there's
this element missing sometimes it's you know it's important to take that step back
and I do believe that test audiences test audiences can actually help improve a film
I know that you know for example you know I mean they call them focus groups Quentin
Tarantino has a more colorful colorful term for focus groups he calls them focus groups
but I know I said I wouldn't swear but but but I think that I think that it's important
to you know to to keep those kinds of feelings and there's a lot of feelings wrapped up
in in an audience's experience with this that's why I think these
these death scenes are so so critical the approach to it I I'm just surprised that
the legacy characters from the previous trilogy which if you're doing a marathon or just
you know were treated so poorly that there there wasn't as much thought given to that you know
I you know you people have invested we're talking about the movies here but also we're also talking
about there are comic book stories about these characters there are stories i've made up in
my mind about these characters yes when I played with action figures when I was a kid
you know there are stories we made up in our heads there are novels
there are radio plays there are all sorts of stories that this that
these iconic characters have you know have participated in and and we've experienced those
we there's a lot invested so the callousness with which that was done is shocking to me to this day.
Question for The Viewers: Do
you agree? Were you offended by Hans Solo's death? What is
the most disrespectful death of an iconic character you can think of?