DONALD TRUMP (R), Presidential Candidate: I know more about ISIS than the generals,
believe me.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), Presidential Candidate: I have sat at that table in the Situation
Room.
DONALD TRUMP: Nobody knows the system better than me. I alone can fix it.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: I'm going to close my campaign focused on opportunities for kids
and fairness for families.
DONALD TRUMP: Hillary failed on the economy. Everything she touched didn't work out.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Even if you're totally opposed to Donald Trump, you may still have
some questions about me.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening. I'm Judy Woodruff. Gwen Ifill is away tonight.
Welcome to this "PBS NewsHour" special coverage of the final presidential debate between Democrat
Hillary Clinton and Republican Donald Trump.
The stage is set at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, at a time when the most recent
polls, both national and in battleground states, show a surge in support for Clinton, while
Trump's numbers have been slipping, especially since the release of the 2005 video where
he's heard using lewd language, boasting about being sexually aggressive.
The debate moderator, Chris Wallace of FOX News, announced ahead of time that there will
be six topics tonight, not necessarily in this order, debt and entitlement, immigration,
the economy, the Supreme Court, foreign hot spots, and fitness to be president.
To watch it all, joining me here at this table in Washington, our regular "NewsHour" contributors,
syndicated columnist Mark Shields, New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Amy Walter
of The Cook Political Report.
So, we're at the third one. And it will all be over after this one.
David, do you expect them to go high or low?
DAVID BROOKS: You promise it will be over?
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID BROOKS: No, I expect her to go high, him to go low.
He's behind, and so he's got to try some desperate move. And the trick for her will be to see
if she can be strong enough to rebut whatever he says, while still projecting some sense
of positivity that will attract some people to her.
My big question, though, for the country is, do we want to take a shower after this is
over? Will we feel better about our country or worse?
JUDY WOODRUFF: Low or high, Mark?
MARK SHIELDS: I think Donald Trump won the nomination going away and prevailed in the
debates by exposing and playing to the vulnerabilities and perceived weaknesses of his opponents.
He has to have concluded after -- and he rattled them. And he bullied them. And he has to have
concluded, after two debates, that that hasn't worked with Hillary Clinton. After 26 debates
with Barack Obama, she's far more formidable than anybody he faced in the Republican primaries.
And I don't know. I think he's just going to throw everything today.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy?
AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: And that's the challenge for the third debate
too.
Your home always told, you never get a second chance to make a good first impression. His
first debate performance, I think, in many ways sealed the fate of his entire candidacy.
Now, he can try to come back in the third debate and go after Hillary Clinton more aggressively.
But I don't know that that's going to make much of a difference, although this is what
a Republican strategist told me he needs to do tonight. He just put in all caps, "E-mails,
foundation, failed record, e-mails, foundation, failed record, e-mails, foundation, failed
record."
That is, I think, what you're going to hear from Donald Trump.
WALLACE: Good evening from the Thomas and Mack Center at the University of Nevada, Las
Vegas. I'm Chris Wallace of Fox News, and I welcome you to the third and final of the
2016 presidential debates between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Donald J. Trump.
WALLACE: This debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The commission has
designed the format: Six roughly 15-minute segments with two-minute answers to the first
question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed
to those rules.
For the record, I decided the topics and the questions in each topic. None of those questions
has been shared with the commission or the two candidates. The audience here in the hall
has promised to remain silent. No cheers, boos, or other interruptions so we and you
can focus on what the candidates have to say.
WALLACE: No noise, except right now, as we welcome the Democratic nominee for president,
Secretary Clinton, and the Republican nominee for president, Mr. Trump.
(APPLAUSE)
Secretary Clinton, Mr. Trump, welcome. Let's get right to it. The first topic is the Supreme
Court.
You both talked briefly about the court in the last debate, but I want to drill down
on this, because the next president will almost certainly have at least one appointment and
likely or possibly two or three appointments.
WALLACE: Which means that you will, in effect, determine the balance of the court for what
could be the next quarter century.
First of all, where do you want to see the court take the country? And secondly, what's
your view on how the Constitution should be interpreted? Do the founders' words mean what
they say or is it a living document to be applied flexibly according to changing circumstances?
In this segment, Secretary Clinton, you go first. You have two minutes.
CLINTON: Thank you very much, Chris. And thanks to UNLV for hosting us.
You know, I think when we talk about the Supreme Court, it really raises the central issue
in this election, namely, what kind of country are we going to be? What kind of opportunities
will we provide for our citizens? What kind of rights will Americans have?
And I feel strongly that the Supreme Court needs to stand on the side of the American
people, not on the side of the powerful corporations and the wealthy. For me, that means that we
need a Supreme Court that will stand up on behalf of women's rights, on behalf of the
rights of the LGBT community, that will stand up and say no to Citizens United, a decision
that has undermined the election system in our country because of the way it permits
dark, unaccountable money to come into our electoral system.
I have major disagreements with my opponent about these issues and others that will be
before the Supreme Court. But I feel that at this point in our country's history, it
is important that we not reverse marriage equality, that we not reverse Roe v. Wade,
that we stand up against Citizens United, we stand up for the rights of people in the
workplace, that we stand up and basically say: The Supreme Court should represent all
of us.
That's how I see the court, and the kind of people that I would be looking to nominate
to the court would be in the great tradition of standing up to the powerful, standing up
on behalf of our rights as Americans.
And I look forward to having that opportunity. I would hope that the Senate would do its
job and confirm the nominee that President Obama has sent to them. That's the way the
Constitution fundamentally should operate. The president nominates, and then the Senate
advises and consents, or not, but they go forward with the process.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, thank you.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, same question. Where do you want to see the court take the country?
And how do you believe the Constitution should be interpreted?
TRUMP: Well, first of all, it's great to be with you, and thank you, everybody. The Supreme
Court: It's what it's all about. Our country is so, so -- it's just so imperative that
we have the right justices.
Something happened recently where Justice Ginsburg made some very, very inappropriate
statements toward me and toward a tremendous number of people, many, many millions of people
that I represent. And she was forced to apologize. And apologize she did. But these were statements
that should never, ever have been made.
We need a Supreme Court that in my opinion is going to uphold the Second Amendment, and
all amendments, but the Second Amendment, which is under absolute siege. I believe if
my opponent should win this race, which I truly don't think will happen, we will have
a Second Amendment which will be a very, very small replica of what it is right now. But
I feel that it's absolutely important that we uphold, because of the fact that it is
under such trauma.
I feel that the justices that I am going to appoint -- and I've named 20 of them -- the
justices that I'm going to appoint will be pro-life. They will have a conservative bent.
They will be protecting the Second Amendment. They are great scholars in all cases, and
they're people of tremendous respect. They will interpret the Constitution the way the
founders wanted it interpreted. And I believe that's very, very important.
I don't think we should have justices appointed that decide what they want to hear. It's all
about the Constitution of -- of -- and so important, the Constitution the way it was
meant to be. And those are the people that I will appoint.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, thank you.
WALLACE: We now have about 10 minutes for an open discussion. I want to focus on two
issues that, in fact, by the justices that you name could end up changing the existing
law of the land. First is one that you mentioned, Mr. Trump, and that is guns.
Secretary Clinton, you said last year, let me quote, "The Supreme Court is wrong on the
Second Amendment." And now, in fact, in the 2008 Heller case, the court ruled that there
is a constitutional right to bear arms, but a right that is reasonably limited. Those
were the words of the Judge Antonin Scalia who wrote the decision. What's wrong with
that?
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CLINTON: Well, first of all, I support the Second Amendment. I lived in Arkansas for
18 wonderful years. I represented upstate New York. I understand and respect the tradition
of gun ownership. It goes back to the founding of our country.
But I also believe that there can be and must be reasonable regulation. Because I support
the Second Amendment doesn't mean that I want people who shouldn't have guns to be able
to threaten you, kill you or members of your family.
And so when I think about what we need to do, we have 33,000 people a year who die from
guns. I think we need comprehensive background checks, need to close the online loophole,
close the gun show loophole. There's other matters that I think are sensible that are
the kind of reforms that would make a difference that are not in any way conflicting with the
Second Amendment.
You mentioned the Heller decision. And what I was saying that you referenced, Chris, was
that I disagreed with the way the court applied the Second Amendment in that case, because
what the District of Columbia was trying to do was to protect toddlers from guns and so
they wanted people with guns to safely store them. And the court didn't accept that reasonable
regulation, but they've accepted many others. So I see no conflict between saving people's
lives and defending the Second Amendment.
WALLACE: Let me bring Mr. Trump in here. The bipartisan Open Debate Coalition got millions
of votes on questions to ask here, and this was, in fact, one of the top questions that
they got. How will you ensure the Second Amendment is protected? You just heard Secretary Clinton's
answer. Does she persuade you that, while you may disagree on regulation, that, in fact,
she supports a Second Amendment right to bear arms? TRUMP: Well, the D.C. vs. Heller decision
was very strongly -- and she was extremely angry about it. I watched. I mean, she was
very, very angry when upheld. And Justice Scalia was so involved. And it was a well-crafted
decision. But Hillary was extremely upset, extremely angry. And people that believe in
the Second Amendment and believe in it very strongly were very upset with what she had
to say.
WALLACE: Well, let me bring in Secretary Clinton. Were you extremely upset?
CLINTON: Well, I was upset because, unfortunately, dozens of toddlers injure themselves, even
kill people with guns, because, unfortunately, not everyone who has loaded guns in their
homes takes appropriate precautions.
But there's no doubt that I respect the Second Amendment, that I also believe there's an
individual right to bear arms. That is not in conflict with sensible, commonsense regulation.
And, you know, look, I understand that Donald's been strongly supported by the NRA. The gun
lobby's on his side. They're running millions of dollars of ads against me. And I regret
that, because what I would like to see is for people to come together and say: Of course
we're going to protect and defend the Second Amendment. But we're going to do it in a way
that tries to save some of these 33,000 lives that we lose every year.
WALLACE: Let me bring Mr. Trump back into this, because, in fact, you oppose any limits
on assault weapons, any limits on high- capacity magazines. You support a national right to
carry law. Why, sir?
TRUMP: Well, let me just tell you before we go any further. In Chicago, which has the
toughest gun laws in the United States, probably you could say by far, they have more gun violence
than any other city. So we have the toughest laws, and you have tremendous gun violence.
I am a very strong supporter of the Second Amendment. And I am -- I don't know if Hillary
was saying it in a sarcastic manner, but I'm very proud to have the endorsement of the
NRA. And it's the earliest endorsement they've ever given to anybody who ran for president.
So I'm very honored by all of that.
We are going to appoint justices -- this is the best way to help the Second Amendment.
We are going to appoint justices that will feel very strongly about the Second Amendment,
that will not do damage to the Second Amendment.
WALLACE: Well, let's pick up on another issue which divides you and the justices that whoever
ends up winning this election appoints could have a dramatic effect there, and that's the
issue of abortion.
TRUMP: Right.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, you're pro-life. But I want to ask you specifically: Do you want
the court, including the justices that you will name, to overturn Roe v. Wade, which
includes -- in fact, states -- a woman's right to abortion?
TRUMP: Well, if that would happen, because I am pro-life, and I will be appointing pro-life
judges, I would think that that will go back to the individual states.
WALLACE: But I'm asking you specifically. Would you like to...
TRUMP: If they overturned it, it will go back to the states.
WALLACE: But what I'm asking you, sir, is, do you want to see the court overturn -- you
just said you want to see the court protect the Second Amendment. Do you want to see the
court overturn Roe v. Wade?
TRUMP: Well, if we put another two or perhaps three justice on, that's really what's going
to be -- that will happen. And that'll happen automatically, in my opinion, because I am
putting pro-life justices on the court. I will say this: It will go back to the states,
and the states will then make a determination.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well, I strongly support Roe v. Wade, which guarantees a constitutional right to
a woman to make the most intimate, most difficult, in many cases, decisions about her health
care that one can imagine. And in this case, it's not only about Roe v. Wade. It is about
what's happening right now in America.
So many states are putting very stringent regulations on women that block them from
exercising that choice to the extent that they are defunding Planned Parenthood, which,
of course, provides all kinds of cancer screenings and other benefits for women in our country.
Donald has said he's in favor of defunding Planned Parenthood. He even supported shutting
the government down to defund Planned Parenthood. I will defend Planned Parenthood. I will defend
Roe v. Wade, and I will defend women's rights to make their own health care decisions.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton... CLINTON: And we have come too far to have that turned back
now. And, indeed, he said women should be punished, that there should be some form of
punishment for women who obtain abortions. And I could just not be more opposed to that
kind of thinking.
WALLACE: I'm going to give you a chance to respond, but I want to ask you, Secretary
Clinton, I want to explore how far you believe the right to abortion goes. You have been
quoted as saying that the fetus has no constitutional rights. You also voted against a ban on late-term,
partial-birth abortions. Why?
CLINTON: Because Roe v. Wade very clearly sets out that there can be regulations on
abortion so long as the life and the health of the mother are taken into account. And
when I voted as a senator, I did not think that that was the case.
The kinds of cases that fall at the end of pregnancy are often the most heartbreaking,
painful decisions for families to make. I have met with women who toward the end of
their pregnancy get the worst news one could get, that their health is in jeopardy if they
continue to carry to term or that something terrible has happened or just been discovered
about the pregnancy. I do not think the United States government should be stepping in and
making those most personal of decisions. So you can regulate if you are doing so with
the life and the health of the mother taken into account.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, your reaction? And particularly on this issue of late-term, partial-birth
abortions.
TRUMP: Well, I think it's terrible. If you go with what Hillary is saying, in the ninth
month, you can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb of the mother just prior to
the birth of the baby.
Now, you can say that that's OK and Hillary can say that that's OK. But it's not OK with
me, because based on what she's saying, and based on where she's going, and where she's
been, you can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month on the
final day. And that's not acceptable.
CLINTON: Well, that is not what happens in these cases. And using that kind of scare
rhetoric is just terribly unfortunate. You should meet with some of the women that I
have met with, women I have known over the course of my life. This is one of the worst
possible choices that any woman and her family has to make. And I do not believe the government
should be making it.
You know, I've had the great honor of traveling across the world on behalf of our country.
I've been to countries where governments either forced women to have abortions, like they
used to do in China, or forced women to bear children, like they used to do in Romania.
And I can tell you: The government has no business in the decisions that women make
with their families in accordance with their faith, with medical advice. And I will stand
up for that right.
WALLACE: All right. But just briefly, I want to move on to another segment...
TRUMP: And, honestly, nobody has business doing what I just said, doing that, as late
as one or two or three or four days prior to birth. Nobody has that.
WALLACE: All right. Let's move on to the subject of immigration. And there is almost no issue
that separates the two of you more than the issue of immigration. Actually, there are
a lot of issues that separate the two of you.
Mr. Trump, you want to build a wall. Secretary Clinton, you have offered no specific plan
for how you want to secure our southern border. Mr. Trump, you are calling for major deportations.
Secretary Clinton, you say that within your first 100 days as president you're going to
offer a package that includes a pathway to citizenship. The question, really, is, why
are you right and your opponent wrong?
Mr. Trump, you go first in this segment. You have two minutes.
TRUMP: Well, first of all, she wants to give amnesty, which is a disaster and very unfair
to all of the people that are waiting on line for many, many years. We need strong borders.
In the audience tonight, we have four mothers of -- I mean, these are unbelievable people
that I've gotten to know over a period of years whose children have been killed, brutally
killed by people that came into the country illegally. You have thousands of mothers and
fathers and relatives all over the country. They're coming in illegally. Drugs are pouring
in through the border. We have no country if we have no border.
Hillary wants to give amnesty. She wants to have open borders. The border -- as you know,
the Border Patrol agents, 16,500-plus ICE last week, endorsed me. First time they've
ever endorsed a candidate. It means their job is tougher. But they know what's going
on. They know it better than anybody. They want strong borders. They feel we have to
have strong borders.
I was up in New Hampshire the other day. The biggest complaint they have -- it's with all
of the problems going on in the world, many of the problems caused by Hillary Clinton
and by Barack Obama. All of the problems -- the single biggest problem is heroin that pours
across our southern border. It's just pouring and destroying their youth. It's poisoning
the blood of their youth and plenty of other people. We have to have strong borders. We
have to keep the drugs out of our country. We are -- right now, we're getting the drugs,
they're getting the cash. We need strong borders. We need absolute -- we cannot give amnesty.
Now, I want to build the wall. We need the wall. And the Border Patrol, ICE, they all
want the wall. We stop the drugs. We shore up the border. One of my first acts will be
to get all of the drug lords, all of the bad ones -- we have some bad, bad people in this
country that have to go out. We're going to get them out; we're going to secure the border.
And once the border is secured, at a later date, we'll make a determination as to the
rest. But we have some bad hombres here, and we're going to get them out.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, thank you. Same question to you, Secretary Clinton. Basically, why
are you right and Mr. Trump is wrong?
CLINTON: Well, as he was talking, I was thinking about a young girl I met here in Las Vegas,
Carla, who is very worried that her parents might be deported, because she was born in
this country but they were not. They work hard, they do everything they can to give
her a good life.
And you're right. I don't want to rip families apart. I don't want to be sending parents
away from children. I don't want to see the deportation force that Donald has talked about
in action in our country.
We have 11 million undocumented people. They have 4 million American citizen children,
15 million people. He said as recently as a few weeks ago in Phoenix that every undocumented
person would be subject to deportation. Now, here's what that means. It means you would
have to have a massive law enforcement presence, where law enforcement officers would be going
school to school, home to home, business to business, rounding up people who are undocumented.
And we would then have to put them on trains, on buses to get them out of our country.
I think that is an idea that is not in keeping with who we are as a nation. I think it's
an idea that would rip our country apart.
I have been for border security for years. I voted for border security in the United
States Senate. And my comprehensive immigration reform plan of course includes border security.
But I want to put our resources where I think they're most needed: Getting rid of any violent
person. Anybody who should be deported, we should deport them.
When it comes to the wall that Donald talks about building, he went to Mexico, he had
a meeting with the Mexican president. Didn't even raise it. He choked and then got into
a Twitter war because the Mexican president said we're not paying for that wall.
So I think we are both a nation of immigrants and we are a nation of laws and that we can
act accordingly. And that's why I'm introducing comprehensive immigration reform within the
first 100 days with the path to citizenship.
WALLACE: Thank you, Secretary Clinton. I want to follow up...
TRUMP: Chris, I think it's...
WALLACE: OK.
TRUMP: I think I should respond to that. First of all, I had a very good meeting with the
president of Mexico. Very nice man. We will be doing very much better with Mexico on trade
deals. Believe me. The NAFTA deal signed by her husband is one of the worst deals ever
made of any kind, signed by anybody. It's a disaster.
Hillary Clinton wanted the wall. Hillary Clinton fought for the wall in 2006 or thereabouts.
Now, she never gets anything done, so naturally the wall wasn't built. But Hillary Clinton
wanted the wall.
WALLACE: Well, let me -- wait, wait, sir, let me...
TRUMP: We are a country of laws. We either have -- and by the way...
WALLACE: Now, wait. I'd like to hear from...
TRUMP: Well -- well, but she said one thing.
WALLACE: I'd like to hear -- I'd like to hear from Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: I voted for border security, and there are...
TRUMP: And the wall.
CLINTON: There are some limited places where that was appropriate. There also is necessarily
going to be new technology and how best to deploy that.
But it is clear, when you look at what Donald has been proposing, he started his campaign
bashing immigrants, calling Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals and drug dealers, that
he has a very different view about what we should do to deal with immigrants.
Now, what I am also arguing is that bringing undocumented immigrants out from the shadows,
putting them into the formal economy will be good, because then employers can't exploit
them and undercut Americans' wages.
And Donald knows a lot about this. He used undocumented labor to build the Trump Tower.
He underpaid undocumented workers, and when they complained, he basically said what a
lot of employers do: "You complain, I'll get you deported."
I want to get everybody out of the shadows, get the economy working, and not let employers
like Donald exploit undocumented workers, which hurts them, but also hurts American
workers.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: President Obama has moved millions of people out. Nobody knows about it, nobody
talks about it. But under Obama, millions of people have been moved out of this country.
They've been deported. She doesn't want to say that, but that's what's happened, and
that's what happened big league.
As far as moving these people out and moving -- we either have a country or we don't. We're
a country of laws. We either have a border or we don't.
Now, you can come back in and you can become a citizen. But it's very unfair. We have millions
of people that did it the right way. They're on line. They're waiting. We're going to speed
up the process, big league, because it's very inefficient. But they're on line and they're
waiting to become citizens.
Very unfair that somebody runs across the border, becomes a citizen, under her plan,
you have open borders. You would have a disaster on trade, and you will have a disaster with
your open borders.
WALLACE: I want to...
TRUMP: But what she doesn't say is that President Obama has deported millions and millions of
people just the way it is.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, I want to...
CLINTON: We will not have open borders. That is...
WALLACE: Well, let me -- Secretary...
CLINTON: That is a rank mischaracterization.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton...
CLINTON: We will have secure borders, but we'll also have reform. And this used to be
a bipartisan issue. Ronald Reagan was the last president...
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, excuse me. Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: ... to sign immigration reform, and George W. Bush supported it, as well.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, I want to clear up your position on this issue, because in
a speech you gave to a Brazilian bank, for which you were paid $225,000, we've learned
from the WikiLeaks, that you said this, and I want to quote. "My dream is a hemispheric
common market with open trade and open borders." So that's the question...
TRUMP: Thank you.
WALLACE: That's the question. Please quiet, everybody. Is that your dream, open borders?
CLINTON: Well, if you went on to read the rest of the sentence, I was talking about
energy. You know, we trade more energy with our neighbors than we trade with the rest
of the world combined. And I do want us to have an electric grid, an energy system that
crosses borders. I think that would be a great benefit to us.
But you are very clearly quoting from WikiLeaks. And what's really important about WikiLeaks
is that the Russian government has engaged in espionage against Americans. They have
hacked American websites, American accounts of private people, of institutions. Then they
have given that information to WikiLeaks for the purpose of putting it on the Internet.
This has come from the highest levels of the Russian government, clearly, from Putin himself,
in an effort, as 17 of our intelligence agencies have confirmed, to influence our election.
CLINTON: So I actually think the most important question of this evening, Chris, is, finally,
will Donald Trump admit and condemn that the Russians are doing this and make it clear
that he will not have the help of Putin in in this election, that he rejects Russian
espionage against Americans, which he actually encouraged in the past? Those are the questions
we need answered. We've never had anything like this happen in any of our elections before.
WALLACE: Well?
TRUMP: That was a great pivot off the fact that she wants open borders, OK? How did we
get on to Putin?
WALLACE: Hold on -- hold on, wait. Hold on, folks. Because we -- this is going to end
up getting out of control. Let's try to keep it quiet so -- for the candidates and for
the American people.
TRUMP: So just to finish on the borders...
WALLACE: Yes?
TRUMP: She wants open borders. People are going to pour into our country. People are
going to come in from Syria. She wants 550 percent more people than Barack Obama, and
he has thousands and thousands of people. They have no idea where they come from.
And you see, we are going to stop radical Islamic terrorism in this country. She won't
even mention the words, and neither will President Obama. So I just want to tell you, she wants
open borders.
Now we can talk about Putin. I don't know Putin. He said nice things about me. If we
got along well, that would be good. If Russia and the United States got along well and went
after ISIS, that would be good.
He has no respect for her. He has no respect for our president. And I'll tell you what:
We're in very serious trouble, because we have a country with tremendous numbers of
nuclear warheads -- 1,800, by the way -- where they expanded and we didn't, 1,800 nuclear
warheads. And she's playing chicken. Look, Putin...
WALLACE: Wait, but...
TRUMP: ... from everything I see, has no respect for this person.
CLINTON: Well, that's because he'd rather have a puppet as president of the United States.
TRUMP: No puppet. No puppet.
CLINTON: And it's pretty clear...
TRUMP: You're the puppet!
CLINTON: It's pretty clear you won't admit...
TRUMP: No, you're the puppet.
CLINTON: ... that the Russians have engaged in cyberattacks against the United States
of America, that you encouraged espionage against our people, that you are willing to
spout the Putin line, sign up for his wish list, break up NATO, do whatever he wants
to do, and that you continue to get help from him, because he has a very clear favorite
in this race.
So I think that this is such an unprecedented situation. We've never had a foreign government
trying to interfere in our election. We have 17 -- 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and
military, who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyberattacks, come
from the highest levels of the Kremlin and they are designed to influence our election.
I find that deeply disturbing.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton...
CLINTON: And I think it's time you take a stand...
TRUMP: She has no idea whether it's Russia, China, or anybody else.
CLINTON: I am not quoting myself.
TRUMP: She has no idea.
CLINTON: I am quoting 17...
TRUMP: Hillary, you have no idea.
CLINTON: ... 17 intelligence -- do you doubt 17 military and civilian...
TRUMP: And our country has no idea.
CLINTON: ... agencies.
TRUMP: Yeah, I doubt it. I doubt it.
CLINTON: Well, he'd rather believe Vladimir Putin than the military and civilian intelligence
professionals who are sworn to protect us. I find that just absolutely...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: She doesn't like Putin because Putin has outsmarted her at every step of the way.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump...
TRUMP: Excuse me. Putin has outsmarted her in Syria.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: He's outsmarted her every step of the way.
WALLACE: I do get to ask some questions.
TRUMP: Yes, that's fine.
WALLACE: And I would like to ask you this direct question. The top national security
officials of this country do believe that Russia has been behind these hacks. Even if
you don't know for sure whether they are, do you condemn any interference by Russia
in the American election?
TRUMP: By Russia or anybody else.
WALLACE: You condemn their interference?
TRUMP: Of course I condemn. Of course I -- I don't know Putin. I have no idea.
WALLACE: I'm not asking -- I'm asking do you condemn?
TRUMP: I never met Putin. This is not my best friend. But if the United States got along
with Russia, wouldn't be so bad.
Let me tell you, Putin has outsmarted her and Obama at every single step of the way.
Whether it's Syria, you name it. Missiles. Take a look at the "start up" that they signed.
The Russians have said, according to many, many reports, I can't believe they allowed
us to do this. They create warheads, and we can't. The Russians can't believe it. She
has been outsmarted by Putin.
And all you have to do is look at the Middle East. They've taken over. We've spent $6 trillion.
They've taken over the Middle East. She has been outsmarted and outplayed worse than anybody
I've ever seen in any government whatsoever.
WALLACE: We're a long way away from immigration, but I'm going to let you finish this topic.
You got about 45 seconds.
TRUMP: And she always will be.
CLINTON: I -- I find it ironic that he's raising nuclear weapons. This is a person who has
been very cavalier, even casual about the use of nuclear weapons. He's...
TRUMP: Wrong. CLINTON: ... advocated more countries getting them, Japan, Korea, even
Saudi Arabia. He said, well, if we have them, why don't we use them, which I think is terrifying.
But here's the deal. The bottom line on nuclear weapons is that when the president gives the
order, it must be followed. There's about four minutes between the order being given
and the people responsible for launching nuclear weapons to do so. And that's why 10 people
who have had that awesome responsibility have come out and, in an unprecedented way, said
they would not trust Donald Trump with the nuclear codes or to have his finger on the
nuclear button.
TRUMP: I have 200 generals...
WALLACE: Very quickly.
TRUMP: ... and admirals, 21 endorsing me, 21 congressional Medal of Honor recipients.
As far as Japan and other countries, we are being ripped off by everybody in the -- we're
defending other countries. We are spending a fortune doing it. They have the bargain
of the century.
All I said is, we have to renegotiate these agreements, because our country cannot afford
to defend Saudi Arabia, Japan, Germany, South Korea, and many other places. We cannot continue
to afford -- she took that as saying nuclear weapons.
WALLACE: OK.
TRUMP: Look, she's been proven to be a liar on so many different ways. This is just another
lie.
CLINTON: Well, I'm just quoting you when you were asked...
TRUMP: There's no quote. You're not going to find a quote from me.
CLINTON: ... about a potential nuclear -- nuclear competition in Asia, you said, you know, go
ahead, enjoy yourselves, folks. That kind...
TRUMP: And defend yourselves.
CLINTON: ... of language -- well...
TRUMP: And defend yourselves. I didn't say nuclear. And defend yourself.
CLINTON: The United States has kept the peace -- the United States has kept the peace through
our alliances. Donald wants to tear up our alliances. I think it makes the world safer
and, frankly, it makes the United States safer. I would work with our allies in Asia, in Europe,
in the Middle East, and elsewhere. That's the only way we're going to be able to keep
the peace.
WALLACE: We're going to -- no, we are going to move on to the next topic, which is the
economy. And I hope we handle that as well as we did immigration. You also have very
different ideas about how to get the economy growing faster. Secretary Clinton, in your
plan, government plays a big role. You see more government spending, more entitlements,
more tax credits, more tax penalties. Mr. Trump, you want to get government out with
lower taxes and less regulation.
TRUMP: Yes.
WALLACE: We're going to drill down into this a little bit more. But in this overview, please
explain to me why you believe that your plan will create more jobs and growth for this
country and your opponent's plan will not. In this round, you go first, Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Well, I think when the middle class thrives, America thrives. And so my plan is
based on growing the economy, giving middle-class families many more opportunities. I want us
to have the biggest jobs program since World War II, jobs in infrastructure and advanced
manufacturing. I think we can compete with high-wage countries, and I believe we should.
New jobs and clean energy, not only to fight climate change, which is a serious problem,
but to create new opportunities and new businesses.
I want us to do more to help small business. That's where two- thirds of the new jobs are
going to come from. I want us to raise the national minimum wage, because people who
live in poverty should not -- who work full-time should not still be in poverty. And I sure
do want to make sure women get equal pay for the work we do.
I feel strongly that we have to have an education system that starts with preschool and goes
through college. That's why I want more technical education in high schools and in community
colleges, real apprenticeships to prepare young people for the jobs of the future. I
want to make college debt-free and for families making less than $125,000, you will not get
a tuition bill from a public college or university if the plan that I worked on with Bernie Sanders
is enacted.
And we're going to work hard to make sure that it is, because we are going to go where
the money is. Most of the gains in the last years since the Great Recession have gone
to the very top. So we are going to have the wealthy pay their fair share. We're going
to have corporations make a contribution greater than they are now to our country.
That is a plan that has been analyzed by independent experts which said that it could produce 10
million new jobs. By contrast, Donald's plan has been analyzed to conclude it might lose
3.5 million jobs. Why? Because his whole plan is to cut taxes, to give the biggest tax breaks
ever to the wealthy and to corporations, adding $20 trillion to our debt, and causing the
kind of dislocation that we have seen before, because it truly will be trickle-down economics
on steroids.
So the plan I have I think will actually produce greater opportunities. The plan he has will
cost us jobs and possibly lead to another Great Recession.
WALLACE: Secretary, thank you. Mr. Trump, why will your plan create more jobs and growth
than Secretary Clinton's?
TRUMP: Well, first of all, before I start on my plan, her plan is going to raise taxes
and even double your taxes. Her tax plan is a disaster. And she can say all she wants
about college tuition. And I'm a big proponent. We're going to do a lot of things for college
tuition. But the rest of the public's going to be paying for it. We will have a massive,
massive tax increase under Hillary Clinton's plan.
TRUMP: But I'd like to start off where we left, because when I said Japan and Germany,
and I'm -- not to single them out, but South Korea, these are very rich, powerful countries.
Saudi Arabia, nothing but money. We protect Saudi Arabia. Why aren't they paying?
She immediately -- when she heard this, I questioned it, and I questioned NATO. Why
aren't the NATO questioned -- why aren't they paying? Because they weren't paying.
Since I did this -- this was a year ago -- all of a sudden, they're paying. And I've been
given a lot -- a lot of credit for it. All of a sudden, they're starting to pay up. They
have to pay up. We're protecting people, they have to pay up. And I'm a big fan of NATO.
But they have to pay up.
She comes out and said, we love our allies, we think our allies are great. Well, it's
awfully hard to get them to pay up when you have somebody saying we think how great they
are.
We have to tell Japan in a very nice way, we have to tell Germany, all of these countries,
South Korea, we have to say, you have to help us out. We have, during his regime, during
President Obama's regime, we've doubled our national debt. We're up to $20 trillion.
So my plan -- we're going to renegotiate trade deals. We're going to have a lot of free trade.
We're going to have free trade, more free trade than we have right now. But we have
horrible deals. Our jobs are being taken out by the deal that her husband signed, NAFTA,
one of the worst deals ever. Our jobs are being sucked out of our economy.
You look at all of the places that I just left, you go to Pennsylvania, you go to Ohio,
you go to Florida, you go to any of them. You go upstate New York. Our jobs have fled
to Mexico and other places. We're bringing our jobs back.
I am going to renegotiate NAFTA. And if I can't make a great deal -- then we're going
to terminate NAFTA and we're going to create new deals. We're going to have trade, but
we're going -- we're going to terminate it, we're going to make a great trade deal.
And if we can't, we're going to do it -- we're going to go a separate way, because it has
been a disaster. We are going to cut taxes massively. We're going to cut business taxes
massively. They're going to start hiring people. We're going to bring the $2.5 trillion...
WALLACE: Time, Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: ... that's offshore back into the country. We are going to start the engine rolling again,
because...
WALLACE: Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: ... right now, our country is dying at 1 percent GDP.
CLINTON: Well, let me translate that, if I can, Chris, because...
TRUMP: You can't.
CLINTON: ... the fact is, he's going to advocate for the largest tax cuts we've ever seen,
three times more than the tax cuts under the Bush administration. I have said repeatedly
throughout this campaign: I will not raise taxes on anyone making $250,000 or less.
I also will not add a penny to the debt. I have costed out what I'm going to do. He will,
through his massive tax cuts, add $20 trillion to the debt.
Well, he mentioned the debt. We know how to get control of the debt. When my husband was
president, we went from a $300 billion deficit to a $200 billion surplus and we were actually
on the path to eliminating the national debt. When President Obama came into office, he
inherited the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. He has cut the deficit
by two-thirds.
So, yes, one of the ways you go after the debt, one of the ways you create jobs is by
investing in people. So I do have investments, investments in new jobs, investments in education,
skill training, and the opportunities for people to get ahead and stay ahead. That's
the kind of approach that will work.
WALLACE: Secretary...
CLINTON: Cutting taxes on the wealthy, we've tried that. It has not worked the way that
it has been promised.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, I want to pursue your plan, because in many ways it is similar
to the Obama stimulus plan in 2009, which has led to the slowest GDP growth since 1949.
TRUMP: Correct.
WALLACE: Thank you, sir.
You told me in July when we spoke that the problem is that President Obama didn't get
to do enough in what he was trying to do with his stimulus. So is your plan basically more
-- even more of the Obama stimulus?
CLINTON: Well, it's a combination, Chris. And let me say that when you inherit the level
of economic catastrophe that President Obama inherited, it was a real touch-and-go situation.
I was in the Senate before I became secretary of state. I've never seen people as physically
distraught as the Bush administration team was because of what was happening to the economy.
I personally believe that the steps that President Obama took saved the economy. He doesn't get
the credit he deserves for taking some very hard positions. But it was a terrible recession.
So now we've dug ourselves out of it, we're standing, but we're not yet running. So what
I am proposing is that we invest from the middle out and the ground up, not the top
down. That is not going to work.
That's why what I have put forward doesn't add a penny to the debt, but it is the kind
of approach that will enable more people to take those new jobs, higher-paying jobs. We're
beginning to see some increase in incomes, and we certainly have had a long string of
increasing jobs. We've got to do more to get the whole economy moving, and that's what
I believe I will be able to do.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, even conservative economists who have looked at your plan say that the
numbers don't add up, that your idea, and you've talked about 25 million jobs created,
4 percent...
TRUMP: Over a 10-year period.
WALLACE: ... growth is unrealistic. And they say -- you talk a lot about growing the energy
industry. They say with oil prices as low as they are right now, that's unrealistic,
as well. Your response, sir?
TRUMP: So I just left some high representatives of India. They're growing at 8 percent. China
is growing at 7 percent. And that for them is a catastrophically low number.
We are growing -- our last report came out -- and it's right around the 1 percent level.
And I think it's going down. Last week, as you know, the end of last week, they came
out with an anemic jobs report. A terrible jobs report. In fact I said, is that the last
jobs report before the election? Because if it is, I should win easily, it was so bad.
The report was so bad.
Look, our country is stagnant. We've lost our jobs. We've lost our businesses. We're
not making things anymore, relatively speaking. Our product is pouring in from China, pouring
in from Vietnam, pouring in from all over the world.
I've visited so many communities. This has been such an incredible education for me,
Chris. I've gotten to know so many -- I've developed so many friends over the last year.
And they cry when they see what's happened. I pass factories that were thriving 20, 25
years ago, and because of the bill that her husband signed and she blessed 100 percent,
it is just horrible what's happened to these people in these communities.
Now, she can say that her husband did well, but, boy, did they suffer as NAFTA kicked
in, because it didn't really kick in very much, but it kicked in after they left. Boy,
did they suffer. That was one of the worst things that's ever been signed by our country.
Now she wants to sign Trans-Pacific Partnership. And she wants it. She lied when she said she
didn't call it the gold standard in one of the debates. She totally lied. She did call
it the gold standard. And they actually fact checked, and they said I was right. I was
so honored.
WALLACE: I want you to give you a chance to briefly speak to that, and then I want to
pivot to one-sixth of the economy...
TRUMP: And that will be as bad as NAFTA.
WALLACE: ... which is Obamacare. But go ahead, briefly.
CLINTON: Well, first, let me say, number one, when I saw the final agreement for TPP, I
said I was against it. It didn't meet my test. I've had the same test. Does it create jobs,
raise incomes, and further our national security? I'm against it now. I'll be against it after
the election. I'll be against it when I'm president.
There's only one of us on this stage who's actually shipped jobs to Mexico, because that's
Donald. He's shipped jobs to 12 countries, including Mexico.
But he mentioned China. And, you know, one of the biggest problems we have with China
is the illegal dumping of steel and aluminum into our markets. I have fought against that
as a senator. I've stood up against it as secretary of state.
Donald has bought Chinese steel and aluminum. In fact, the Trump Hotel right here in Las
Vegas was made with Chinese steel. So he goes around with crocodile tears about how terrible
it is, but he has given jobs to Chinese steelworkers, not American steelworkers.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump?
CLINTON: That's the kind of approach that is just not going to work.
TRUMP: Well, let me just say -- let me just say.
CLINTON: We're going to pull the country together. We're going to have trade agreements that
we enforce. That's why I'm going to have a trade prosecutor for the first time in history.
And we're going to enforce those agreements, and we're going to look for businesses to
help us by buying American products.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton? Go ahead, Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: Let me ask a simple question. She's been doing this for 30 years. Why the hell
didn't you do it over the last 15, 20 years?
CLINTON: No, I voted.
TRUMP: You were very much involved -- excuse me. My turn. You were very much involved in
every aspect of this country. Very much. And you do have experience. I say the one thing
you have over me is experience, but it's bad experience, because what you've done has turned
out badly.
For 30 years, you've been in a position to help, and if you say that I use steel or I
use something else, I -- make it impossible for me to do that. I wouldn't mind.
The problem is, you talk, but you don't get anything done, Hillary. You don't. Just like
when you ran the State Department, $6 billion was missing. How do you miss $6 billion? You
ran the State Department, $6 billion was either stolen. They don't know. It's gone, $6 billion.
If you become president, this country is going to be in some mess. Believe me.
CLINTON: Well, first of all, what he just said about the State Department is not only
untrue, it's been debunked numerous times.
CLINTON: But I think it's really an important issue. He raised the 30 years of experience,
so let me just talk briefly about that. You know, back in the 1970s, I worked for the
Children's Defense Fund. And I was taking on discrimination against African-American
kids in schools. He was getting sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination
in his apartment buildings.
In the 1980s, I was working to reform the schools in Arkansas. He was borrowing $14
million from his father to start his businesses. In the 1990s, I went to Beijing and I said
women's rights are human rights. He insulted a former Miss Universe, Alicia Machado, called
her an eating machine.
TRUMP: Give me a break.
CLINTON: And on the day when I was in the Situation Room, monitoring the raid that brought
Osama bin Laden to justice, he was hosting the "Celebrity Apprentice." So I'm happy to
compare my 30 years of experience, what I've done for this country, trying to help in every
way I could, especially kids and families get ahead and stay ahead, with your 30 years,
and I'll let the American people make that decision.
TRUMP: Well, I think I did a much better job. I built a massive company, a great company,
some of the greatest assets anywhere in the world, worth many, many billions of dollars.
I started with a $1 million loan. I agree with that. It's a $1 million loan. But I built
a phenomenal company.
And if we could run our country the way I've run my company, we would have a country that
you would be so proud of. You would even be proud of it.
And frankly, when you look at her real record, take a look at Syria. Take a look at the migration.
Take a look at Libya. Take a look at Iraq. She gave us ISIS, because her and Obama created
this huge vacuum, and a small group came out of that huge vacuum because when -- we should
never have been in Iraq, but once we were there, we should have never got out the way
they wanted to get out. She gave us ISIS as sure as you are sitting there. And what happened
is now ISIS is in 32 countries. And now I listen how she's going to get rid of ISIS.
She's going to get rid of nobody.
WALLACE: All right. We are going to get to foreign hot spots in a few moments, but the
next segment is fitness to be president of the United States. Mr. Trump, at the last
debate, you said your talk about grabbing women was just that, talk, and that you'd
never actually done it. And since then, as we all know, nine women have come forward
and have said that you either groped them or kissed them without their consent.
Why would so many different women from so many different circumstances over so many
different years, why would they all in this last couple of weeks make up -- you deny this
-- why would they all make up these stories?
Since this is a question for both of you, Secretary Clinton, Mr. Trump says what your
husband did and that you defended was even worse. Mr. Trump, you go first.
TRUMP: Well, first of all, those stories have been largely debunked. Those people -- I don't
know those people. I have a feeling how they came. I believe it was her campaign that did
it.
Just like if you look at what came out today on the clips where I was wondering what happened
with my rally in Chicago and other rallies where we had such violence? She's the one
and Obama that caused the violence. They hired people -- they paid them $1,500, and they're
on tape saying be violent, cause fights, do bad things.
I would say the only way -- because those stories are all totally false, I have to say
that. And I didn't even apologize to my wife, who's sitting right here, because I didn't
do anything. I didn't know any of these -- I didn't see these women.
These women -- the woman on the plane, the -- I think they want either fame or her campaign
did it. And I think it's her campaign. Because what I saw what they did, which is a criminal
act, by the way, where they're telling people to go out and start fist-fights and start
violence.
And I'll tell you what, in particular in Chicago, people were hurt and people could have been
killed in that riot. And that was now all on tape, started by her. I believe, Chris,
that she got these people to step forward. If it wasn't, they get their 10 minutes of
fame. But they were all totally -- it was all fiction. It was lies, and it was fiction.
CLINTON: Well...
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: At the last debate, we heard Donald talking about what he did to women. And after
that, a number of women have come forward saying that's exactly what he did to them.
Now, what was his response? Well, he held a number of big rallies where he said that
he could not possibly have done those things to those women because they were not attractive
enough for them to be assaulted.
TRUMP: I did not say that. I did not say that.
CLINTON: In fact, he went on to say... WALLACE: Her two minutes -- sir, her two minutes. Her
two minutes.
TRUMP: I did not say that.
WALLACE: It's her two minutes.
CLINTON: He went on to say, "Look at her. I don't think so." About another woman, he
said, "That wouldn't be my first choice." He attacked the woman reporter writing the
story, called her "disgusting," as he has called a number of women during this campaign.
Donald thinks belittling women makes him bigger. He goes after their dignity, their self-worth,
and I don't think there is a woman anywhere who doesn't know what that feels like. So
we now know what Donald thinks and what he says and how he acts toward women. That's
who Donald is.
I think it's really up to all of us to demonstrate who we are and who our country is, and to
stand up and be very clear about what we expect from our next president, how we want to bring
our country together, where we don't want to have the kind of pitting of people one
against the other, where instead we celebrate our diversity, we lift people up, and we make
our country even greater.
America is great, because America is good. And it really is up to all of us to make that
true, now and in the future, and particularly for our children and our grandchildren.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump...
TRUMP: Nobody has more respect for women than I do. Nobody.
(LAUGHTER)
Nobody has more respect...
WALLACE: Please, everybody.
TRUMP: And frankly, those stories have been largely debunked. And I really want to just
talk about something slightly different.
She mentions this, which is all fiction, all fictionalized, probably or possibly started
by her and her very sleazy campaign. But I will tell you what isn't fictionalized are
her e-mails, where she destroyed 33,000 e-mails criminally, criminally, after getting a subpoena
from the United States Congress.
What happened to the FBI, I don't know. We have a great general, four-star general, today
you read it in all of the papers, going to potentially serve five years in jail for lying
to the FBI. One lie. She's lied hundreds of times to the people, to Congress, and to the
FBI. He's going to probably go to jail. This is a four-star general. And she gets away
with it, and she can run for the presidency of the United States? That's really what you
should be talking about, not fiction, where somebody wants fame or where they come out
of her crooked campaign.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well, every time Donald is pushed on something which is obviously uncomfortable,
like what these women are saying, he immediately goes to denying responsibility. And it's not
just about women. He never apologizes or says he's sorry for anything.
So we know what he has said and what he's done to women. But he also went after a disabled
reporter, mocked and mimicked him on national television.
TRUMP: Wrong.
CLINTON: He went after Mr. and Mrs. Khan, the parents of a young man who died serving
our country, a Gold Star family, because of their religion. He went after John McCain,
a prisoner of war, said he prefers "people who aren't captured." He went after a federal
judge, born in Indiana, but who Donald said couldn't be trusted to try the fraud and racketeering
case against Trump University because his parents were Mexican.
So it's not one thing. This is a pattern, a pattern of divisiveness, of a very dark
and in many ways dangerous vision of our country, where he incites violence, where he applauds
people who are pushing and pulling and punching at his rallies. That is not who America is.
And I hope that as we move in the last weeks of this campaign, more and more people will
understand what's at stake in this election. It really does come down to what kind of country
we are going to have.
TRUMP: So sad when she talks about violence at my rallies, and she caused the violence.
It's on tape.
WALLACE: During the last...
TRUMP: The other things are false, but honestly, I'd love to talk about getting rid of ISIS,
and I'd love to talk about other things...
WALLACE: OK.
TRUMP: ... but those other charges, as she knows, are false.
WALLACE: In this bucket about fitness to be president, there's been a lot of developments
over the last 10 days since the last debate. I'd like to ask you about them. These are
questions that the American people have.
Secretary Clinton, during your 2009 Senate confirmation hearing, you promised to avoid
even the appearance of a conflict of interest with your dealing with the Clinton Foundation
while you were secretary of state, but e-mails show that donors got special access to you.
Those seeking grants for Haiti relief were considered separately from non-donors, and
some of those donors got contracts, government contracts, taxpayer money.
Can you really say that you kept your pledge to that Senate committee? And why isn't what
happened and what went on between you and the Clinton Foundation, why isn't it what
Mr. Trump calls pay to play?
CLINTON: Well, everything I did as secretary of state was in furtherance of our country's
interests and our values. The State Department has said that. I think that's been proven.
But I am happy, in fact I'm thrilled to talk about the Clinton Foundation, because it is
a world-renowned charity and I am so proud of the work that it does. You know, I could
talk for the rest of the debate -- I know I don't have the time to do that.
But just briefly, the Clinton Foundation made it possible for 11 million people around the
world with HIV-AIDS to afford treatment, and that's about half all the people in the world
who are getting treatment. In partnership with the American Health Association...
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton...
CLINTON: ... we have made environments in schools healthier for kids, including healthier
lunches...
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, respectfully, this is -- this is an open discussion.
CLINTON: Well, it is an open discussion. And you...
WALLACE: And the specific question went to pay for play. Do you want to talk about that?
CLINTON: Well, but there is no -- but there is no evidence -- but there is...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I think that it's been very well...
WALLACE: Let's ask Mr. Trump.
CLINTON: There is a lot of evidence about the very good work...
TRUMP: It's been very well studied.
CLINTON: ... and the high rankings...
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Please let me Mr. Trump speak.
TRUMP: ... and it's a criminal enterprise, and so many people know it.
WALLACE: Please let Mr. Trump speak.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: It's a criminal enterprise. Saudi Arabia giving $25 million, Qatar, all of these countries.
You talk about women and women's rights? So these are people that push gays off business
-- off buildings. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly. And yet you
take their money.
So I'd like to ask you right now, why don't you give back the money that you've taken
from certain countries that treat certain groups of people so horribly? Why don't you
give back the money? I think it would be a great gesture.
Because she takes a tremendous amount of money. And you take a look at the people of Haiti.
I was at a little Haiti the other day in Florida. And I want to tell you, they hate the Clintons,
because what's happened in Haiti with the Clinton Foundation is a disgrace. And you
know it, and they know it, and everybody knows it.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well, very quickly, we at the Clinton Foundation spend 90 percent -- 90 percent
of all the money that is donated on behalf of programs of people around the world and
in our own country. I'm very proud of that. We have the highest rating from the watchdogs
that follow foundations. And I'd be happy to compare what we do with the Trump Foundation,
which took money from other people and bought a six- foot portrait of Donald. I mean, who
does that? It just was astonishing.
But when it comes to Haiti, Haiti is the poorest country in our hemisphere. The earthquake
and the hurricanes, it has devastated Haiti. Bill and I have been involved in trying to
help Haiti for many years. The Clinton Foundation raised $30 million to help Haiti after the
catastrophic earthquake and all of the terrible problems the people there had.
We have done things to help small businesses, agriculture, and so much else. And we're going
to keep working to help Haiti...
WALLACE: All right.
CLINTON: ... because it's an important part of the American experience.
TRUMP: They don't want you to help them anymore.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I'd like to mention one thing. Trump Foundation, small foundation. People contribute,
I contribute. The money goes 100 percent -- 100 percent goes to different charities, including
a lot of military. I don't get anything. I don't buy boats. I don't buy planes. What
happens -- the money goes to them.
WALLACE: Wasn't some of the money used to settle your lawsuits, sir?
TRUMP: No, it was -- we put up the American flag. And that's it. They put up the American
flag. We fought for the right in Palm Beach to put up the American flag.
WALLACE: Right. But there was a penalty that was imposed by Palm Beach County, and the
money came from your foundation...
TRUMP: There was. There was. And, by the way...
WALLACE: ... instead of Mar-a-Lago or yourself, sir.
TRUMP: ... the money -- the money went to Fisher House, where they build houses -- the
money that you're talking about went to Fisher House, where they build houses for veterans
and disabled vets.
WALLACE: I want to get into one...
CLINTON: But, of course, there's no way we can know whether any of that is true, because
he hasn't released his tax returns. He is the first candidate ever to run for president
in the last 40-plus years who has not released his tax returns, so everything he says about
charity or anything else, we can't prove it. You can look at our tax returns. We've got
them all out there.
But what is really troubling is that we learned in the last debate he has not paid a penny
in federal income tax. And we were talking about immigrants a few minutes ago, Chris.
You know, half of all immigrants -- undocumented immigrants in our country -- actually pay
federal income tax. So we have undocumented immigrants in America who are paying more
federal income tax than a billionaire. I find that just astonishing.
WALLACE: I want...
TRUMP: So let me just tell you very quickly, we're entitled because of the laws that people
like her passed to take massive amounts of depreciation on other charges, and we do it.
And all of her donors -- just about all of them -- I know Buffett took hundreds of millions
of dollars, Soros, George Soros, took hundreds of millions of dollars...
WALLACE: We...
TRUMP: Let me just explain.
WALLACE: But, no, we heard this...
TRUMP: Most of her donors have done the same thing as I do.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, we -- OK.
TRUMP: You know what she should have done?
WALLACE: Folks, we heard this...
TRUMP: And you know, Hillary, what you should have done, you should have changed the law
when you were a United States senator...
WALLACE: Folks, we heard this...
TRUMP: ... because your donors and your special interests are doing the same thing as I do,
except even more so.
CLINTON: Well, you know...
TRUMP: You should have changed the law. But you won't change the law, because you take
in so much money. I mean, I sat in my apartment today on a very beautiful hotel down the street
known as Trump...
CLINTON: Made with Chinese steel.
TRUMP: But I will tell you, I sat there...
(LAUGHTER)
... I sat there watching ad after ad after ad, false ad. All paid for by your friends
on Wall Street that gave so much money because they know you're going to protect them. And,
frankly, you should have changed the laws.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump...
TRUMP: If you don't like what I did, you should have changed the laws.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, I want to ask you about one last question in this topic. You have
been warning at rallies recently that this election is rigged and that Hillary Clinton
is in the process of trying to steal it from you.
Your running mate, Governor Pence, pledged on Sunday that he and you -- his words -- "will
absolutely accept the result of this election." Today your daughter, Ivanka, said the same
thing. I want to ask you here on the stage tonight: Do you make the same commitment that
you will absolutely -- sir, that you will absolutely accept the result of this election?
TRUMP: I will look at it at the time. I'm not looking at anything now. I'll look at
it at the time.
What I've seen -- what I've seen is so bad. First of all, the media is so dishonest and
so corrupt, and the pile-on is so amazing. The New York Times actually wrote an article
about it, but they don't even care. It's so dishonest. And they've poisoned the mind of
the voters.
But unfortunately for them, I think the voters are seeing through it. I think they're going
to see through it. We'll find out on November 8th. But I think they're going to see through
it.
WALLACE: But, sir, there's...
TRUMP: If you look -- excuse me, Chris -- if you look at your voter rolls, you will see
millions of people that are registered to vote -- millions, this isn't coming from me
-- this is coming from Pew Report and other places -- millions of people that are registered
to vote that shouldn't be registered to vote.
So let me just give you one other thing. So I talk about the corrupt media. I talk about
the millions of people -- tell you one other thing. She shouldn't be allowed to run. It's
crooked -- she's -- she's guilty of a very, very serious crime. She should not be allowed
to run.
And just in that respect, I say it's rigged, because she should never...
WALLACE: But...
TRUMP: Chris, she should never have been allowed to run for the presidency based on what she
did with e-mails and so many other things.
WALLACE: But, sir, there is a tradition in this country -- in fact, one of the prides
of this country -- is the peaceful transition of power and that no matter how hard-fought
a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign that the loser concedes to the winner. Not
saying that you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner, but that the loser
concedes to the winner and that the country comes together in part for the good of the
country. Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?
TRUMP: What I'm saying is that I will tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense.
OK?
CLINTON: Well, Chris, let me respond to that, because that's horrifying. You know, every
time Donald thinks things are not going in his direction, he claims whatever it is, is
rigged against him.
The FBI conducted a year-long investigation into my e-mails. They concluded there was
no case; he said the FBI was rigged. He lost the Iowa caucus. He lost the Wisconsin primary.
He said the Republican primary was rigged against him. Then Trump University gets sued
for fraud and racketeering; he claims the court system and the federal judge is rigged
against him. There was even a time when he didn't get an Emmy for his TV program three
years in a row and he started tweeting that the Emmys were rigged against him.
TRUMP: Should have gotten it.
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: This is -- this is a mindset. This is how Donald thinks. And it's funny, but
it's also really troubling.
WALLACE: OK.
CLINTON: So that is not the way our democracy works. We've been around for 240 years. We've
had free and fair elections. We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them.
And that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general
election. You know, President Obama said the other day when you're whining before the game
is even finished...
(APPLAUSE)
WALLACE: Hold on. Hold on, folks. Hold on, folks.
CLINTON: ... it just shows you're not up to doing the job. And let's -- you know, let's
be clear about what he is saying and what that means. He is denigrating -- he's talking
down our democracy. And I, for one, am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of
our two major parties would take that kind of position.
TRUMP: I think what the FBI did and what the Department of Justice did, including meeting
with her husband, the attorney general, in the back of an airplane on the tarmac in Arizona,
I think it's disgraceful. I think it's a disgrace.
WALLACE: All right.
TRUMP: I think we've never had a situation so bad in this country.
(APPLAUSE)
WALLACE: Hold on, folks. This doesn't do any good for anyone. Let's please continue the
debate, and let's move on to the subject of foreign hot spots.
The Iraqi offensive to take back Mosul has begun. If they are successful in pushing ISIS
out of that city and out of all of Iraq, the question then becomes, what happens the day
after? And that's something that whichever of you ends up -- whoever of you ends up as
president is going to have to confront.
Will you put U.S. troops into that vacuum to make sure that ISIS doesn't come back or
isn't replaced by something even worse? Secretary Clinton, you go first in this segment. You
have two minutes.
CLINTON: Well, I am encouraged that there is an effort led by the Iraqi army, supported
by Kurdish forces, and also given the help and advice from the number of special forces
and other Americans on the ground. But I will not support putting American soldiers into
Iraq as an occupying force. I don't think that is in our interest, and I don't think
that would be smart to do. In fact, Chris, I think that would be a big red flag waving
for ISIS to reconstitute itself.
The goal here is to take back Mosul. It's going to be a hard fight. I've got no illusions
about that. And then continue to press into Syria to begin to take back and move on Raqqa,
which is the ISIS headquarters.
I am hopeful that the hard work that American military advisers have done will pay off and
that we will see a real -- a really successful military operation. But we know we've got
lots of work to do. Syria will remain a hotbed of terrorism as long as the civil war, aided
and abetted by the Iranians and the Russians, continue.
So I have said, look, we need to keep our eye on ISIS. That's why I want to have an
intelligence surge that protects us here at home, why we have to go after them from the
air, on the ground, online, why we have to make sure here at home we don't let terrorists
buy weapons. If you're too dangerous to fly, you're too dangerous to buy a gun.
And I'm going to continue to push for a no-fly zone and safe havens within Syria not only
to help protect the Syrians and prevent the constant outflow of refugees, but to, frankly,
gain some leverage on both the Syrian government and the Russians so that perhaps we can have
the kind of serious negotiation necessary to bring the conflict to an end and go forward
on a political track.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, same question. If we are able to push ISIS out of Mosul and out of
Iraq, will -- would you be willing to put U.S. troops in there to prevent their return
or something else?
TRUMP: Let me tell you, Mosul is so sad. We had Mosul. But when she left, when she took
everybody out, we lost Mosul. Now we're fighting again to get Mosul. The problem with Mosul
and what they wanted to do is they wanted to get the leaders of ISIS who they felt were
in Mosul.
About three months ago, I started reading that they want to get the leaders and they're
going to attack Mosul. Whatever happened to the element of surprise, OK? We announce we're
going after Mosul. I have been reading about going after Mosul now for about -- how long
is it, Hillary, three months? These people have all left. They've all left.
The element of surprise. Douglas MacArthur, George Patton spinning in their graves when
they see the stupidity of our country. So we're now fighting for Mosul, that we had.
All she had to do was stay there, and now we're going in to get it.
But you know who the big winner in Mosul is going to be after we eventually get it? And
the only reason they did it is because she's running for the office of president and they
want to look tough. They want to look good. He violated the red line in the sand, and
he made so many mistakes, made all the mistakes. That's why we have the great migration. But
she wanted to look good for the election. So they're going in.
But who's going to get Mosul, really? We'll take Mosul eventually. But the way -- if you
look at what's happening, much tougher than they thought. Much, much tougher. Much more
dangerous. Going to be more deaths that they thought.
But the leaders that we wanted to get are all gone because they're smart. They say,
what do we need this for? So Mosul is going to be a wonderful thing. And Iran should write
us a letter of thank you, just like the really stupid -- the stupidest deal of all time,
a deal that's going to give Iran absolutely nuclear weapons. Iran should write us yet
another letter saying thank you very much, because Iran, as I said many years ago, Iran
is taking over Iraq, something they've wanted to do forever, but we've made it so easy for
them.
So we're now going to take Mosul. And do you know who's going to be the beneficiary? Iran.
Oh, yeah, they're making -- I mean, they are outsmarting -- look, you're not there, you
might be involved in that decision. But you were there when you took everybody out of
Mosul and out of Iraq. You shouldn't have been in Iraq, but you did vote for it. You
shouldn't have been in Iraq, but once you were in Iraq, you should have never left the
way.
WALLACE: Sir, your two minutes are up.
TRUMP: The point is, the big winner is going to be Iran.
CLINTON: Well, you know, once again, Donald is implying that he didn't support the invasion
of Iraq. I said it was a mistake. I've said that years ago. He has consistently denied
what is...
TRUMP: Wrong.
CLINTON: ... a very clear fact that...
TRUMP: Wrong.
CLINTON: ... before the invasion, he supported it. And, you know, I just want everybody to
go Google it. Google "Donald Trump Iraq." And you will see the dozens of sources which
verify that he was for the invasion of Iraq.
TRUMP: Wrong.
CLINTON: And you can actually hear the audio of him saying that. Now, why does that matter?
Well, it matters because he has not told the truth about that position. I guess he believes
it makes him look better now to contrast with me because I did vote for it.
But what's really important here is to understand all the interplay. Mosul is a Sunni city.
Mosul is on the border of Syria. And, yes, we do need to go after Baghdadi, and -- just
like we went after bin Laden, while you were doing "Celebrity Apprentice," and we brought
him to justice. We need to go after the leadership.
But we need to get rid of them, get rid of their fighters. There are an estimated several
thousand fighters in Mosul. They've been digging underground. They've been prepared to defend.
It's going to be tough fighting. But I think we can take back Mosul, and then we can move
on into Syria and take back Raqqa.
This is what we have to do. I'm just amazed that he seems to think that the Iraqi government
and our allies and everybody else launched the attack on Mosul to help me in this election,
but that's how Donald thinks. You know, he always is looking for some conspiracy.
TRUMP: Chris, we don't gain anything.
CLINTON: He has all the conspiracy theories...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Iran is taking over Iraq.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, it's...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Iran is taking over Iraq. We don't gain anything.
CLINTON: This conspiracy theory, which he's been spewing out for quite some time.
TRUMP: If they did it by surprise...
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Wait, wait, wait, Secretary Clinton, it's an open discussion.
CLINTON: He says...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: We could have gained if they did it by surprise.
WALLACE: Secretary, please let Mr. Trump speak.
CLINTON: ... unfit, and he proves it every time he talks.
TRUMP: No, you are the one that's unfit. You know, WikiLeaks just actually came out -- John
Podesta said some horrible things about you, and, boy, was he right. He said some beauties.
And you know, Bernie Sanders, he said you have bad judgment. You do.
And if you think that going into Mosul after we let the world know we're going in, and
all of the people that we really wanted -- the leaders -- they're all gone. If you think
that was good, then you do. Now, John Podesta said you have terrible instincts. Bernie Sanders
said you have bad judgment. I agree with both.
CLINTON: Well, you should ask Bernie Sanders who he's supporting for president. And he
has said...
TRUMP: Which is a big mistake.
CLINTON: ... as he has campaigned for me around the country, you are the most dangerous person
to run for president in the modern history of America. I think he's right.
WALLACE: Let's turn to Aleppo. Mr. Trump, in the last debate, you were both asked about
the situation in the Syrian city of Aleppo. And I want to follow up on that, because you
said several things in that debate which were not true, sir. You said that Aleppo has basically
fallen. In fact, there -- in fact, there are... TRUMP: It's a catastrophe. I mean...
WALLACE: It's a catastrophe, but there...
TRUMP: ... it's a mess.
WALLACE: There are a quarter of...
TRUMP: Have you seen it? Have you seen it?
WALLACE: Sir...
TRUMP: Have you seen what's happening to Aleppo?
WALLACE: Sir, if I may finish my question...
TRUMP: OK, so it hasn't fallen. Take a look at it.
WALLACE: Well, there are a quarter of a million people still living there and being slaughtered.
TRUMP: That's right. And they are being slaughtered...
WALLACE: Yes.
TRUMP: ... because of bad decisions.
WALLACE: If I may just finish here, and you also said that -- that Syria and Russia are
busy fighting ISIS. In fact, they have been the ones who've been bombing and shelling
eastern Aleppo, and they just announced a humanitarian pause, in effect, admitting that
they have been bombing and shelling Aleppo. Would you like to clear that up, sir?
TRUMP: Well, Aleppo is a disaster. It's a humanitarian nightmare. But it has fallen
from the -- from any standpoint. I mean, what do you need, a signed document? Take a look
at Aleppo. It is so sad when you see what's happened.
And a lot of this is because of Hillary Clinton, because what's happened is, by fighting Assad,
who turned out to be a lot tougher than she thought, and now she's going to say, oh, he
loves Assad, she's -- he's just much tougher and much smarter than her and Obama. And everyone
thought he was gone two years ago, three years ago. He -- he aligned with Russia.
He now also aligned with Iran, who we made very powerful. We gave them $150 billion back.
We give them $1.7 billion in cash. I mean, cash. Bundles of cash as big as this stage.
We gave them $1.7 billion.
Now they have -- he has aligned with Russia and with Iran. They don't want ISIS, but they
have other things, because we're backing -- we're backing rebels. We don't know who the rebels
are. We're giving them lots of money, lots of everything. We don't know who the rebels
are. And when and if -- and it's not going to happen, because you have Russia and you
have Iran now. But if they ever did overthrow Assad, you might end up with -- as bad as
Assad is, and he's a bad guy, but you may very well end up with worse than Assad.
If she did nothing, we'd be in much better shape. And this is what's caused the great
migration, where she's taking in tens of thousands of Syrian refugees, who probably in many cases
-- not probably, who are definitely...
WALLACE: Let me...
TRUMP: ... in many cases, ISIS-aligned, and we now have them in our country, and wait
until you see -- this is going to be the great Trojan horse. And wait until you see what
happens in the coming years. Lots of luck, Hillary. Thanks a lot for doing a great job.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, you have talked about -- and in the last debate and again
today -- that you would impose a no-fly zone to try to protect the people of Aleppo and
to stop the killing there. President Obama has refused to do that because he fears it's
going to draw us closer or deeper into the conflict.
And General Joseph Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says you impose
a no-fly zone, chances are you're going to get into a war -- his words -- with Syria
and Russia. So the question I have is, if you impose a no-fly zone -- first of all,
how do you respond to their concerns? Secondly, if you impose a no-fly zone and a Russian
plane violates that, does President Clinton shoot that plane down?
CLINTON: Well, Chris, first of all, I think a no-fly zone could save lives and could hasten
the end of the conflict. I'm well aware of the really legitimate concerns that you have
expressed from both the president and the general.
This would not be done just on the first day. This would take a lot of negotiation. And
it would also take making it clear to the Russians and the Syrians that our purpose
here was to provide safe zones on the ground.
We've had millions of people leave Syria and those millions of people inside Syria who
have been dislocated. So I think we could strike a deal and make it very clear to the
Russians and the Syrians that this was something that we believe was in the best interests
of the people on the ground in Syria, it would help us with our fight against ISIS.
But I want to respond to what Donald said about refugees. He's made these claims repeatedly.
I am not going to let anyone into this country who is not vetted, who we do not have confidence
in. But I am not going to slam the door on women and children. That picture of that little
4-year-old boy in Aleppo, with the blood coming down his face while he sat in an ambulance,
is haunting. And so we are going to do very careful, thorough vetting. That does not solve
our internal challenges with ISIS and our need to stop radicalization, to work with
American Muslim communities who are on the front lines to identify and prevent attacks.
In fact, the killer of the dozens of people at the nightclub in Orlando, the Pulse nightclub,
was born in Queens, the same place Donald was born. So let's be clear about what the
threat is and how we are best going to be able to meet it.
And, yes, some of that threat emanates from over in Syria and Iraq, and we've got to keep
fighting, and I will defeat ISIS, and some of it is we have to up our game and be much
smarter here at home.
WALLACE: Folks, I want to get into our final segment.
TRUMP: But I just have to...
WALLACE: Real quick.
TRUMP: It's so ridiculous what she -- she will defeat ISIS. We should have never let
ISIS happen in the first place. And right now, they're in 32 countries.
WALLACE: OK.
TRUMP: We should have -- wait one second. They had a cease-fire three weeks ago. A cease-fire,
the United States, Russia, and Syria. And during the cease-fire, Russia took over vast
swatches of land, and then they said we don't want the cease-fire anymore.
We are so outplayed on missiles, on cease-fires. They are outplayed. Now, she wasn't there.
I assume she had nothing to do with it. But our country is so outplayed by Putin and Assad,
and by the way -- and by Iran. Nobody can believe how stupid our leadership is.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, Secretary Clinton -- no, we need to move on to our final segment, and
that is the national debt, which has not been discussed until tonight.
Our national debt, as a share of the economy, our GDP, is now 77 percent. That's the highest
since just after World War II. But the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
says, Secretary Clinton, under your plan, debt would rise to 86 percent of GDP over
the next 10 years. Mr. Trump, under your plan, they say it would rise to 105 percent of GDP
over the next 10 years. The question is, why are both of you ignoring this problem? Mr.
Trump, you go first.
TRUMP: Well, I say they're wrong, because I'm going to create tremendous jobs. And we're
bringing GDP from, really, 1 percent, which is what it is now, and if she got in, it will
be less than zero. But we're bringing it from 1 percent up to 4 percent. And I actually
think we can go higher than 4 percent. I think you can go to 5 percent or 6 percent. And
if we do, you don't have to bother asking your question, because we have a tremendous
machine. We will have created a tremendous economic machine once again. To do that, we're
taking back jobs. We're not going to let our companies be raided by other countries where
we lose all our jobs, we don't make our product anymore. It's very sad. But I'm going to create
a -- the kind of a country that we were from the standpoint of industry. We used to be
there. We've given it up. We've become very, very sloppy.
We've had people that are political hacks making the biggest deals in the world, bigger
than companies. You take these big companies, these trade deals are far bigger than these
companies, and yet we don't use our great leaders, many of whom back me and many of
whom back Hillary, I must say. But we don't use those people. Those are the people -- these
are the greatest negotiators in the world. We have the greatest businesspeople in the
world. We have to use them to negotiate our trade deals.
We use political hacks. We use people that get the position because they gave -- they
made a campaign contribution and they're dealing with China and people that are very much smarter
than they are. So we have to use our great people.
But that being said, we will create an economic machine the likes of which we haven't seen
in many decades. And people, Chris, will again go back to work and they'll make a lot of
money. And we'll have companies that will grow and expand and start from new.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well, first, when I hear Donald talk like that and know that his slogan is "Make
America Great Again," I wonder when he thought America was great. And before he rushes and
says, "You know, before you and President Obama were there," I think it's important
to recognize that he has been criticizing our government for decades.
You know, back in 1987, he took out a $100,000 ad in the New York Times, during the time
when President Reagan was president, and basically said exactly what he just said now, that we
were the laughingstock of the world. He was criticizing President Reagan. This is the
way Donald thinks about himself, puts himself into, you know, the middle and says, "You
know, I alone can fix it," as he said on the convention stage.
But if you look at the debt, which is the issue you asked about, Chris, I pay for everything
I'm proposing. I do not add a penny to the national debt. I take that very seriously,
because I do think it's one of the issues we've got to come to grips with.
So when I talk about how we're going to pay for education, how we're going to invest in
infrastructure, how we're going to get the cost of prescription drugs down, and a lot
of the other issues that people talk to me about all the time, I've made it very clear
we are going where the money is. We are going to ask the wealthy and corporations to pay
their fair share.
And there is no evidence whatsoever that that will slow down or diminish our growth. In
fact, I think just the opposite. We'll have what economists call middle-out growth. We've
got to get back to rebuilding the middle class, the families of America. That's where growth
will come from. That's why I want to invest in you. I want to invest in your family.
And I think that's the smartest way to grow the economy, to make the economy fairer. And
we just have a big disagreement about this. It may be because of our experiences. You
know, he started off with his dad as a millionaire...
TRUMP: Yeah, yeah, we've heard -- we've heard this before, Hillary.
CLINTON: I started off with -- my dad was a small-business man.
TRUMP: We've heard this before.
CLINTON: And I think it -- you know, it's a difference that affects how we see the world
and what we want to do with the economy.
WALLACE: Time.
TRUMP: Thank you, Hillary. Could I just respond?
WALLACE: Well, no, sir, because we're running out of time...
TRUMP: Because I did disagree with Ronald Reagan very strongly on trade. I disagreed
with him. We should have been much tougher on trade even then. I've been waiting for
years. Nobody does it right.
WALLACE: OK.
TRUMP: And frankly, now we're going to do it right.
WALLACE: All right. The one last area I want to get into with you in this debate is the
fact that the biggest driver of our debt is entitlements, which is 60 percent of all federal
spending. Now, the Committee for federal -- a Responsible Federal Budget has looked at both
of your plans and they say neither of you has a serious plan that is going to solve
the fact that Medicare's going to run out of money in the 2020s, Social Security is
going to run out of money in the 2030s, and at that time, recipients are going to take
huge cuts in their benefits.
So, in effect, the final question I want to ask you in this regard is -- and let me start
with you, Mr. Trump, would President Trump make a deal to save Medicare and Social Security
that included both tax increases and benefit cuts, in effect, a grand bargain on entitlements?
TRUMP: I'm cutting taxes. We're going to grow the economy. It's going to grow at a record
rate of growth.
WALLACE: That's not going to help in the entitlements.
TRUMP: No, it's going to totally help you. And one thing we have to do: Repeal and replace
the disaster known as Obamacare. It's destroying our country. It's destroying our businesses,
our small business and our big businesses. We have to repeal and replace Obamacare.
You take a look at the kind of numbers that that will cost us in the year '17, it is a
disaster. If we don't repeal and replace -- now, it's probably going to die of its own weight.
But Obamacare has to go. It's -- the premiums are going up 60 percent, 70 percent, 80 percent.
Next year they're going to go up over 100 percent.
And I'm really glad that the premiums have started -- at least the people see what's
happening, because she wants to keep Obamacare and she wants to make it even worse, and it
can't get any worse. Bad health care at the most expensive price. We have to repeal and
replace Obamacare.
WALLACE: And, Secretary Clinton, same question, because at this point, Social Security and
Medicare are going to run out, the trust funds are going to run out of money. Will you as
president entertain -- will you consider a grand bargain, a deal that includes both tax
increases and benefit cuts to try to save both programs?
CLINTON: Well, Chris, I am on record as saying that we need to put more money into the Social
Security Trust Fund. That's part of my commitment to raise taxes on the wealthy. My Social Security
payroll contribution will go up, as will Donald's, assuming he can't figure out how to get out
of it. But what we want to do is to replenish the Social Security Trust Fund...
TRUMP: Such a nasty woman.
CLINTON: ... by making sure that we have sufficient resources, and that will come from either
raising the cap and/or finding other ways to get more money into it. I will not cut
benefits. I want to enhance benefits for low-income workers and for women who have been disadvantaged
by the current Social Security system.
But what Donald is proposing with these massive tax cuts will result in a $20 trillion additional
national debt. That will have dire consequences for Social Security and Medicare.
And I'll say something about the Affordable Care Act, which he wants to repeal. The Affordable
Care Act extended the solvency of the Medicare Trust Fund. So if repeals it, our Medicare
problem gets worse. What we need to do is go after...
TRUMP: Your husband disagrees with you.
CLINTON: ... the long-term health care drivers. We've got to get costs down, increase value,
emphasize wellness. I have a plan for doing that. And I think that we will be able to
get entitlement spending under control by with more resources and harder decisions.
WALLACE: This is -- this is the final time, probably to both of your delight, that you're
going to be on a stage together in this campaign. I would like to end it on a positive note.
You had not agreed to closing statements, but it seems to me in a funny way that might
make it more interesting because you haven't prepared closing statements.
So I'd like you each to take -- and we're going to put a clock up, a minute, as the
final question in the final debate, to tell the American people why they should elect
you to be the next president. This is another new mini-segment. Secretary Clinton, it's
your turn to go first.
CLINTON: Well, I would like to say to everyone watching tonight that I'm reaching out to
all Americans -- Democrats, Republicans, and independents -- because we need everybody
to help make our country what it should be, to grow the economy, to make it fairer, to
make it work for everyone. We need your talents, your skills, your commitments, your energy,
your ambition.
You know, I've been privileged to see the presidency up close. And I know the awesome
responsibility of protecting our country and the incredible opportunity of working to try
to make life better for all of you. I have made the cause of children and families really
my life's work.
That's what my mission will be in the presidency. I will stand up for families against powerful
interests, against corporations. I will do everything that I can to make sure that you
have good jobs, with rising incomes, that your kids have good educations from preschool
through college. I hope you will give me a chance to serve as your president.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, thank you.
Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: She's raising the money from the people she wants to control. Doesn't work that way.
But when I started this campaign, I started it very strongly. It's called "Make America
Great Again." We're going to make America great. We have a depleted military. It has
to be helped, has to be fixed. We have the greatest people on Earth in our military.
We don't take care of our veterans. We take care of illegal immigrants, people that come
into the country illegally, better than we take care of our vets. That can't happen.
Our policemen and women are disrespected. We need law and order, but we need justice,
too. Our inner cities are a disaster. You get shot walking to the store. They have no
education. They have no jobs. I will do more for African-Americans and Latinos than she
can ever do in 10 lifetimes.
All she's done is talk to the African-Americans and to the Latinos, but they get the vote,
and then they come back, they say, we'll see you in four years. We are going to make America
strong again, and we are going to make America great again, and it has to start now. We cannot
take four more years of Barack Obama, and that's what you get when you get her.
5-Minute Fix newsletter Keeping up with politics is easy now.
Sign up WALLACE: Thank you both.
(APPLAUSE)
Secretary Clinton -- hold on just a moment, folks. Secretary Clinton, Mr. Trump, I want
to thank you both for participating in all three of these debates.
That brings to an end this year's debates sponsored by the Commission on Presidential
Debates. We want to thank the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and its students for having
us. Now the decision is up to you.
While millions have already voted, Election Day, November 8th, is just 20 days away. One
thing everyone here can agree on: We hope you will go vote. It is one of the honors
and obligations of living in this great country. Thank you, and good night.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And that wraps up the final presidential debate between Donald Trump and
Hillary Clinton, as we watch the candidates walk across the stage to shake the hand of
the moderator, Chris Wallace, and presumably their families will join them on stage in
a moment.
Joining me here in our Washington studio, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, New York
Times columnist David Brooks, and Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report.
David Brooks, it started out on a civil note. That lasted about 15 or 20 minutes. Then they
got into I can think a number of subjects around abortion and the Supreme Court.
But, by the end of it, Donald Trump was calling Hillary Clinton a nasty woman and a liar.
And we heard a lot.
DAVID BROOKS: I counted 27 minutes of civility. That may be exceeding expectations.
(CROSSTALK)
DAVID BROOKS: I thought it was -- well, the headline of the night is going to be the -- when
he was asked if he would support the election, and he said, I will keep you in suspense about
that over the election results.
That is going to be the headline of the night. It's hard to believe we've...
AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: For sure.
JUDY WOODRUFF: For sure.
(CROSSTALK)
DAVID BROOKS: ... presidential candidate say that in a national debate.
I, frankly, thought it one of the best debate performances that Hillary Clinton has ever
given. I thought he was -- he has improved, but she gave four answers that I think knocked
him out of the park, especially on the sexual abuse issue, on 30 years of experience, on
that episode.
She gave some extremely strong and coherent and Michelle Obama-esque answers.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And it was Michelle Obama, Mark, who said, "When they go low, we go high."
Chris Wallace, at the end, asked them both to be positive, but we heard some -- we heard
negative language to the very end.
MARK SHIELDS: We did.
I thought Trump was better temperamentally tonight than he had been in any of the debates.
If he had been that in the first debate, I think it would have been -- it would have
been a different race.
But I think we come back to the tape. The tape is a killer to him. And I think that...
JUDY WOODRUFF: You mean the "Access Hollywood" audiotape.
(CROSSTALK)
MARK SHIELDS: I think the dynamic of tonight, it was his bad moment. I don't think people
believe him. And it was her better moment.
But I -- he didn't get the lift he needed. And I thought there were episodes of just
incoherence on his part.
I disagree with David. I thought Hillary had some great answers, but I thought there were
excessive phases of just sort of bland, predictable prose. We're going to grow the -- how many
times are we going to grow the economy? Is that a phrase that has sort of reached its
saturation point or expiration date?
JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy Walter?
AMY WALTER: So, the only question coming out of this debate was whether or not he could
stop what was looking like a freefall in the polls and whether that freefall was also going
to hurt the down-ballot candidates, especially Senate candidates, in battleground states.
I don't think it really helped at all here. And David is right. The headline is that a
president -- a candidate running for president of the United States of America said, I don't
know if I'm going to abide by the decision made by voters.
That is just an unbelievable statement. And the number one challenge that Donald Trump
has had throughout this campaign, when you look at where he has fallen flat with voters,
is on the question, do you think that Donald Trump has the judgment and the temperament
to be president of the United States?
He has trailed Hillary Clinton on that time and time again. It's now a gaping chasm on
that issue. And he did not challenge her on that and help expand his -- do any better
on that the question of judgment and temperament tonight, either by interrupting her, and then,
of course, by making the statement he did that he's going to keep people in suspense.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And we should note that he said this on a day when both his vice presidential
running mate, Mike Pence, who we see there in the audience, has been saying -- and he
said it again today -- that we will accept the results of the election, his daughter
Ivanka Trump said today that she expected her father would.
Let's listen to that part of the debate where moderator Chris Wallace asked Donald Trump
directly, will you accept the result no matter what it is?
DONALD TRUMP: I will look at it at the time. I'm not looking at anything now. I will look
at it at the time.
What I have seen -- what I have seen is so bad. First of all, the media is so dishonest
and so corrupt, and the pile-on is so amazing. The New York Times actually wrote an article
about it, but they don't even care. It's so dishonest. And they've poisoned the minds
of the voters.
But, unfortunately for them, I think the voters are seeing through it. I think they're going
to see through it. We'll find out on November 8.
If you look at your voter rolls, you will see millions of people that are registered
to vote, millions -- this isn't coming from me -- this is coming from Pew report and other
places -- millions of people that are registered to vote that shouldn't be registered to vote.
CHRIS WALLACE, Moderator: Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?
DONALD TRUMP: What I'm saying is that I will tell you at the time. I will keep you in suspense.
OK?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Well, Chris, let me respond to that, because that's horrifying.
JUDY WOODRUFF: David, it doesn't get any plainer, I guess, than that.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes. And I wonder if it will hurt him.
The reason we concede elections, and the reason why every candidate in our history has conceded
elections, and has said so all along that they respect the will of the voters, is because
this is coherence of the country.
The struggle for power can get ruthless in the world. And when you -- and you can lead
to war. It can lead to conflict. It can lead to barbarity. And the reason we don't do fall
into barbarity is because not that we're wonderful people, but we have certain customs and standards
which we adhere to.
And not adhering to those customs and standards really does put you on the edge of some sort
of dissent from the system we have enjoyed, which is not only based on the laws, but our
attitudes toward the laws.
And so he is violating and corrupting those attitudes. How many people in America agree
with him? Well, people have done studies of this, and somewhere between a third and 40
percent think they don't trust our system of government anymore.
And so this is a time of maximum cynicism, which he is part of and also inflamed.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And we have been seeing people at his rallies, Mark, in recent days say they
won't accept her. They may not accept the results of the election.
MARK SHIELDS: No, that's right.
JUDY WOODRUFF: How serious do you see this?
MARK SHIELDS: I think it is serious. I think it's the lead. There's no question of it.
We have never had a president do that before.
I was in Washington when the moment of maximum constitutional crisis, when Richard Nixon
left the presidency. There were no tanks in the streets. There were no rifles. It was
peaceable. It was peaceful. It was lawful. And Gerald Ford became president.
What Trump -- what's wrong with Trump here is his -- he's stepping on his basic message.
His basic message is, I'm the strong guy, I'm the guy. And now, oh, poor little me.
Woe is me. They have rigged it on me.
So, it's the strong man as whiner. And it's just a -- it's a terrible message. And it
doesn't work politically. But I think it is a -- I mean, "I will look at it the time"
is -- Stephen A. Douglas conceded to Abraham Lincoln after a bitter campaign and said,
you know, you are my president, God bless you.
And that -- it was such a small, small mind and man...
(CROSSTALK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy.
AMY WALTER: If it weren't for that quote, I think the other one that would be leading
tonight would be early on, when the question about the Supreme Court and who would be appointed
to the Supreme Court by each of these candidates, and Donald Trump conceded the fact he's going
to not just appoint pro-life justices, but that he expects them to overturn Roe v. Wade.
That would be -- again, if this were any other campaign, if we were on parallel Earth 2 in
a normal kind of campaign, that would have been a really amazing statement. And, again,
this is for a candidate who is doing very badly with women candidates, especially suburban
women.
That is the kind of statement that just makes his ability to dig himself out of the hole
he's in very, very tough.
(CROSSTALK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: I was just going to say, our -- I will come back to you in a minute.
Our John Yang, "NewsHour"'s John Yang, is at the debate site at the University of Nevada,
Las Vegas.
John, you're in the spin room. You have been trying to catch up with people speaking for
both campaigns. What are you hearing?
JOHN YANG: Judy, I tell you, I have just spoken to number of people from the Clinton campaign,
not only here in the spin room, but by e-mail.
The two moments that they single out in this debate were both Donald Trump moments, one
where he, as you have been talking about, said he wouldn't pledge to accept the outcome
of the election, and then also when he wouldn't acknowledge or wouldn't accept the U.S. intelligence
assessment that Russia is behind the hacks, the WikiLeaks hacks. They say this shows that
he's unfit for office.
Now, what I also asked them that, in all three debates, it seems that their message has been
that -- the negative message against Donald Trump, essentially that Hillary Clinton should
be elected because she's not Donald Trump.
I asked if she had made the positive message for herself. They all pointed to the closing
statement, which wasn't planned, as you heard. But they also say that the pivot starts now,
that, in these debates, because of what Donald Trump has done, they had to make that. They
had to go after him because of what he was doing.
They say that, from now on, on the campaign trail, for the next few weeks, or couple of
weeks, the closing argument is going to be a positive one, presenting what Hillary Clinton
will do as president if she's elected, making a positive argument for her, rather than the
negative argument against Donald Trump.
JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, John, who has been talking, as we heard, to Clinton and to Trump
representatives there in the spin room in Las Vegas.
David Brooks, did you hear Hillary Clinton doing that, making that pivot from making
the case against Donald Trump to saying, here is why I'm the right person?
DAVID BROOKS: Not really, no.
I think she does -- I will give Mark 20 yards in the 100-yard field. She does devolve into
cliche and stereotypical thought when asked to make the positive case. And her best answers
are attacks at him.
I think she has got some indignation that she's facing this guy and indignation about
some of the things he has said and his treatment toward women. In many ways, her entire life
has been in defense of women's rights. And here comes, at the climax of her political
life, her electoral life, a guy who seems to her a threat and an insult to all that.
And so she's rightfully indignant.
Has she made a positive case for herself? I think not. But that is in part because it's
in both their interests right now to make him the center of attention. And he -- she
could have had a very bad day today.
These video clips of her loose campaign staff allegedly saying they are fomenting violence
and doing voter fraud, it could have been a terrible day for her. And yet he made himself
the center even of his own remarks.
JUDY WOODRUFF: He did on several -- at several points.
All right, our colleague Lisa Desjardins is in our newsroom upstairs, who has been looking
at some -- what we call the fact-check.
Lisa, what did you discover?
LISA DESJARDINS: Well, you know, one of the headlines of this debate that might not get
as much attention is the amount of policy that was discussed tonight.
It was certainly the most that I have think we have seen this presidential election. And
we want to look at some of the facts around those policies.
Up near the top, we heard lot about guns and the Second Amendment. And Hillary Clinton
made a claim. She claimed that, in this country, some 33,000 people are killed by guns, die
from gun injuries a year. We checked that. And according to the CDC, the latest available
data shows she's right.
Just over 33,000 people are killed from firearms. But we really need to add some context, because
63 percent, almost two-thirds of those firearm deaths, are suicides, not homicide.
Also, what is interesting to know about that number, that is approximately as many people
who are killed in car crashes in this country as well. Additionally, the U.S. gun death
rate is about 25 times higher than the similar rates in similar high-income countries.
All right, how about a claim from Donald Trump? We heard a lot about the economy. Donald Trump
claims that the U.S. economy is stagnant. He used those words -- that word exactly.
Well, if you look at the numbers, GDP was up almost 2, almost 2.5 percent last year.
Last month -- this is the report that Donald Trump cited -- the country gained 156,000
jobs. So, that certainly is not stagnant. There is an increase. But it is below the
ideal and even below what economists like to see, which is 3 percent GDP growth.
So, he may have been right when he said anemic, not stagnant. Job growth, as Mark Shields
said, a bland, predictable piece of prose, but an important piece of policy.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you, Lisa, for keeping track of all that and a lot more during the
debate.
Mark, at this stage in the campaign, with less than three weeks to go, how much do these
things matter, whether you get the exact description right on the economy or not?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, they matter into everybody's decision, Judy. The decision process is very
personal. But I think the decision has been made.
Just one -- one point where Hillary did get in trouble in April of this year, if you will
recall, when she said an unborn person doesn't have any constitutional rights. And she was
attacked by Planned Parenthood for saying that, because you have to use the language,
which is fetus.
And it's interesting. She's gone from a time when abortion was safe, legal and rare. Now
the Democratic position is, abortion shall be available. I mean, it's -- the rare part
has been dropped totally from the Democratic rhetoric, I think it's fair to say.
She was an ardent, really unfettered pro-choice advocate tonight. And she has been criticized
by some of the pro-choice groups in the past for talking about the person who -- of an
unborn...
DAVID BROOKS: It's one thing. Presidential candidates used to say that, oh, I'm not going
to impose a litmus test here.
And that was actually a very valuable thing to say, because it did protect -- or at least
make a pretense that the judiciary is about the Constitution, and it's not strictly a
political office.
And that idea, that we don't have litmus tests, that's gone. It's like, we're -- I'm going
to pick the people who are on my side.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: I mean, and there's no question about that.
AMY WALTER: Which has been going on, right, for quite some while.
She's going to pick people who are going to stand with her on Citizens United and the
decision there, and he's going to pick people who stand on abortion rights.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy, we did hear, as Lisa said, a lot more about policy tonight. Chris Wallace
made a point of ticking off those six subject areas, entitlements and debt.
Did we learn anything new from these candidates?
AMY WALTER: No. No, we really didn't.
Well, again, this is hard for somebody who has been following this all year. So, I recognize
most normal people do not sit and listen to the candidates, which is all the time.
JUDY WOODRUFF: More than a year.
AMY WALTER: Yes, more -- it has felt like a hundred years, this campaign. So, I recognize
that.
But we kind of come back to where we started in discussing this debate, which is, there
is still not a lot of substance there with Donald Trump. It's a lot of the same talking
points, but you're not really getting much more, much more than that.
Hillary Clinton, I felt like, did tick through some of the talking points that she usually
hits on. But I do feel like Donald Trump had the opportunity in this case to give more
details about the economy. And looking at the polling, it's the one issue where people
say they trust him more than Hillary Clinton.
And yet, when he had the chance, when the economy was literally teed up to him, he pivoted
back to explain himself and the attack that Hillary Clinton made on him about missiles
and nuclear weapons.
And so any time, even on issue that is supposedly in his wheelhouse, he had a hard time making
that case.
JUDY WOODRUFF: I thought that happened a couple of different -- several different times, where
she was able, because of the way she phrased something, to frankly get under his skin...
MARK SHIELDS: She did.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... and to get him -- and to goad him into probably something he didn't
mean to talk about.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes.
I thought her answer of the 30 years was probably the strongest answer she had, what I was doing
those 30 years and what were you doing. And I think it -- I think it did bother him, Judy.
I think there was another problem that Trump had tonight. And that is the denigration of
America and its leadership: Our country has no idea. We're losers.
It's one thing to criticize policy or policy decisions, but, boy, he makes it sound like
the United States has done nothing right. And I just -- I think that our country has
no idea, I think it has no political salience or appeal.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I think I disagree with that.
MARK SHIELDS: OK.
DAVID BROOKS: That's been his secret sauce all year, and that there are -- the level
of anger, the level of disgust, the level of deep, deep pessimism is -- that's why we
have Donald Trump.
And so he's closing with what his -- and he closed his debate comments with his strongest
close: I'm different.
MARK SHIELDS: It's a primary argument. It's not a general argument.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, let's -- for the final minute-and-a-half that we have left, Amy,
where does this campaign go from here? We have, what, 20 days -- 19 days left.
AMY WALTER: We're 19 days now, 19 left. Remember, two million people have already voted.
So, this debate, we talk about changing minds, are there undecided voters? A lot of folks
have already cast their ballots before this debate.
I think what this debate reminded us is that the candidates really are doubling and tripling
down on their message, on their overall closing argument.
For Trump, it's that his base is more important than expanding his ceiling. He's going to
continue to make the same case he's made in the primaries throughout the general, even
though it only appeals to a narrow slice of Americans, Hillary Clinton going to continue
to make Donald Trump the focus, but also try to make sure that he doesn't get any expansion.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Twenty seconds, Mark.
MARK SHIELDS: It was the last great moment. The rest of it is parallel skiing. And this
was the intersection. This was his chance to change the race. And he didn't do it tonight.
DAVID BROOKS: And will Mike Pence agree? Will he reiterate that he's going to support the
election results no matter what? That -- to see how their positions evolve over the next
few days on that question will be interesting.
MARK SHIELDS: Every Republican candidate...
JUDY WOODRUFF: It will be really interesting to see.
AMY WALTER: Every Republican.
MARK SHIELDS: ... will be asked that tomorrow.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. And Mike Pence was asked it tonight, I'm guessing. So, we will find
out what he had to say.
Amy Walter, David Brooks, Mark Shields, we thank you all.
And that wraps up our coverage of this final presidential debate of the election.
As always, there is much more online. You can watch highlights at PBS.org/"NewsHour."
Plus, you can watch those fact-checks from our "NewsHour" team.
I'm Judy Woodruff.
And do join us right back here for the "NewsHour" tomorrow evening.
For all of us at the "PBS NewsHour" family, thank you, and
good night.