HILLARY CLINTON LOOKS LIKE SHE WILL END
UP WINNING THE POPULAR VOTE IN THIS ELECTION, AND OF COURSE
LOSING THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE, SOMETHING THAT SEEMS TO HAPPEN
SUSPICIOUSLY OFTEN TO DEMOCRATS THIS CENTURY.
SO FOR MANY
AMERICANS WHO ARE HORRIFIED WHAT THEY KNOW DONALD TRUMP WILL DO
AS PRESIDENT, THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IS THEIR LAST PERCEIVED
CHANCE TO STOP THIS THING AND HOPEFULLY CONVINCE ENOUGH
ELECTORS TO SWITCH THEIR VOTE FROM DONALD TRUMP TO HILLARY
CLINTON AND MAKE HER PRESIDENT INSTEAD.
A PETITION HAS BEEN
STARTED TO TRY TO GET THIS TO HAPPEN ON CHANGE.ORG, THIS WAS
FROM EARLIER TODAY, FOR ALL I KNOW IT HAS HIT 3 MILLION AT
THIS POINT.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THIS, A
NUMBER OF CELEBRITIES HAVE BEEN SPREADING THIS MESSAGE, LADY
GAGA, THINGS LIKE THAT, IT'S FOR A POPULAR.
THIS WOULD RELY ON
WHAT IS CONSIDERED FAITHLESS ELECTORS, WHO WOULD CAST A VOTE
FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT THE MAJORITY OR PLURALITY OF
PEOPLE IN THEIR STATE VOTED FOR IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
IT
IS NOT COMMON --
WANTING TO GET IN ON THAT TRAIN A COUPLE YEARS EARLY, I
SUPPOSE.
THE PHILOSOPHICAL ARGUMENT FOR TRYING TO PERSUADE
ELECTORS TO GO FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT THEY ARE
APPARENTLY SUPPOSED TO, PEOPLE ARE POINTING TO SOME OF THE
FOUNDERS' INITIAL STATEMENTS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE.
THIS SELECTION FROM ONE OF THE
FEDERALIST PAPERS BY ELDER HAMILTON, WHO SEEMS POPULAR
THESE DAYS FOR SOME REASON, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE POINTING
TO
THIS --
THAT IS FANCY TALK FOR, THERE'S A CHANCE THAT ALL OF
THESE PEASANTS WILL GO CRAZY SOMEDAY AND ELECT TO SOME MANIAC
WHO WILL DESTROY DEMOCRACY, INSTEAD LET'S GET THE WISE,
LEARNED WHITE MEN TO GET TOGETHER AND DELIBERATE AND STOP
THE COUNTRY FROM DESCENDING INTO THE SEVENTH LAYER OF HELL.
THAT
IS WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY.
BEFORE WE JUMP INTO THE
DISCUSSION, THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD CONVINCE ENOUGH TO DO IT
IS A VERY COMPLICATED ONE, WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO ADMIT IT'S
EXTREMELY UNLIKELY FOR A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT REASONS.
FIRST OF
ALL, MANY OF THE STATES, IF THERE ELECTORS DECIDED TO BE
FAITHLESS, THERE ARE POSSIBLE REPERCUSSIONS WHERE THEY COULD
SIMPLY SAID OTHER ELECTORS.
THERE ARE CHANCES WHERE IF NOT
ENOUGH DO IT BUT IT GETS TO A CERTAIN THRESHOLD WHERE NOBODY
HAS 270, THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WOULD GO FOR THE
REPUBLICAN.
HILLARY CLINTON HAS ALREADY CONCEDED, THERE IS NO
INDICATION SHE WOULD GO ALONG WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, AND IF
YOU WERE TO CONVINCE ROUGHLY 30 OR 27 ELECTORS TO DO THIS I
THINK REPUBLICANS NATIONALLY WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT AND
I HAVE READ RECENTLY THAT THEY OWN SOMETHING LIKE 250 MILLION
GUNS.
THERE ARE COMPLICATIONS, LET'S DISCUSS.
ON THE ONE HAND YOU GET A LITTLE EXCITED BECAUSE SHE WON
THE POPULAR VOTE, HOW MANY TIMES ARE WE GOING TO HAVE SOMEONE WIN
THE POPULAR VOTE AND NOT BECOME PRESIDENT?
THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE
IS MEANT TO BE UNDEMOCRATIC A DIFFERENT WAY, IT SOUND LIKE THE
SUPERDELEGATES WE HAVE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.
YOU SAY
SANDERS, I SAY CLINTON.
AS IT TURNS OUT BOTH THE
SUPERDELEGATES AND PLEDGED DELEGATES SAID CLINTON, SO I
DON'T LIKE THAT, THAT SOUNDS UNDEMOCRATIC THAT THE ELECTORS
COULD DECIDE, NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION.
THE FLIPSIDE IS,
THIS WOULD BE THE REVERSE.
WHERE THEY ARE SAYING, NO, WE ARE
INTERESTED IN HOW YOU VOTED, AND YOU VOTED FOR HILLARY CLINTON.
WE HAD MORE VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON THAN FOR DONALD TRUMP,
AND IT WOULD BE AN IRONIC ACT OF DEMOCRACY TO SAY I'M GOING TO
USE THE SUPERDELEGATE-LIKE FOLKS TO ACTUALLY GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT
THEY VOTED FOR.
WE CAN'T LOSE TRACK OF THE FACT THAT DONALD
TRUMP DID NOT GET AS MANY VOTES AS HIS OPPONENT, AND IS GOING TO
BE PRESIDENT ANYWAY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IS
SUPPOSED TO BRING US.
HAVING SAID ALL THAT, ONE, IT SOUNDS
SUPER UNDOABLE, I KNOW A LOT OF GOOD FOLKS ARE BEHIND IT, BUT
YOU ARE GOING TO FLIP ALL THOSE ELECTORS, REPUBLICANS GO KNOTS,
I WILL FIGHT REPUBLICANS, I DON'T MIND.
QUITE WHAT IF THEY
SIMPLY REFUSE?
DOES IT GO TO THE MILITARY?
THE OTHER PART IS, ON PRINCIPLE, WE DO HAVE THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE, AND IF WE WERE TO REVERSE THAT I THINK
THEY WOULD BE RIGHTLY AGGRIEVED.
ONE THING THAT OCCURRED TO ME, OVERALL IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE
CASE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE I THINK THERE
ARE GOOD REASONS TO GET RID OF IT, THERE ARE ALSO SOME REASONS
TO KEEP IT.
IT'S AN INTERESTING DEBATE TO HAVE AND WE HAVEN'T
EVERY FOUR YEARS BECAUSE OF SITUATIONS LIKE THIS.
BUT I
WOULD SAY IN TERMS OF TRYING TO OVERTURN WHAT THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE IS SUPPOSED TO DO, IT MIGHT SEEM HYPOCRITICAL IF YOU
SUPPORT OVERTURNING IT WHEN IT WOULD HELP YOUR CANDIDATE AND
NOT WHEN IT WON'T, BUT IF YOU SAY WE SHOULD GET RID OF IT BUT
START RIGHT NOW BEFORE DONALD TRUMP IS ABLE TO USE IT TO GET
ONE LAST NOT POPULAR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE TO BE ELECTED --
WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL THE DUKES OF HAZZARD LOSE THE POPULAR VOTE
AND STILL BECOME OUR PRESIDENT.
THERE ARE TWO STATES THAT DON'T
GIVE WINNER TAKE ALL, NEBRASKA AND MAINE.
I KNOW IT'S HARD TO
GET RID OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE CONSTITUTIONALLY BUT COULDN'T
STATES JUST DECIDE TO GO PROPORTIONALLY?
10 STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA HAVE SIGNED ON TO A
PLAN WHERE IF THE NUMBER OF ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES THEY ALL
HAVE TOGETHER IS AT LEAST 270, THEY PLEDGE TO SIMPLY GO WITH
WHOEVER WINS THE POPULAR VOTE NATIONALLY.
WHICH WOULD MEAN
THAT THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE WOULD NOT EXIST ANYMORE, BECAUSE THEY
WERE BE ENOUGH VOTES WHERE IT WOULD ALWAYS GO FOR THE POPULAR
VOTE.
THE PROBLEM IS RIGHT NOW THAT ONLY AMOUNTS TO 106 FIVE,
THERE IS STILL A GOOD WAY TO GO.
ONE OTHER BAD SIGN IS THAT ONLY
DEMOCRATIC LEANING STATES HAVE SIGNED ON SO FAR, REPUBLICAN
STATES WHICH TEND TO BE THE SMALLER ONES WHICH RECEIVE A
DISPROPORTIONATE BENEFIT FROM THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE HAVE NOT
GONE FOR IT.
MUCH WE KNOW HOW WE WOULD GET RID OF IT, IF THE
REPUBLICANS EVER LOST THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE AND WON THE
POPULAR VOTE IT WOULD BE GONE WITHIN TWO WEEKS.
AND AS WE SAID, THEY WOULD HAVE A CASE.
THIS ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, AND WHAT HAMILTON SAID ABOUT THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE MAKES SENSE, BUT BASICALLY THEY WERE SAYING
IF THE PEOPLE PICK AN IDIOT, WE CAN'T HAVE AN IDIOT FOR
PRESIDENT.
THAT'S WHY I THINK THERE SHOULD BE LIKE A TEST TO BE
PRESIDENT, THEY TALK ABOUT TESTS FOR VOTING, NAME 50
STATES, NAME THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, ANY OF THOSE
WOULD ELIMINATE TRUMP RIGHT AWAY.
SPELL POTATO.
RIGHT.
BUT THEY WON'T DO THAT.
THIS IS ALL TALK, THIS IS LIKE
THE BASEBALL OF FAME AND PETE ROSE.
EVERYONE KNOWS PETE ROSE
SHOULD BE IN THE HALL OF FAME, BUT NOBODY WILL DO IT AND WE
DON'T REALLY KNOW WHO IS VOTING AND WHICH WAY TO GO.
THIS
ELECTORAL COLLEGE, WE DON'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE, THEY DON'T
HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANYONE PUBLICLY.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO
CHANGE IT.
MY PROBLEM WITH THIS, AND JUST WHAT YOU SAID, IF IT
WAS REVERSED REPUBLICANS WOULD FIGHT IT -- THE TIME TO FIGHT
THIS IS TWO YEARS FROM NOW.
YOU CAN'T FIGHT IT THIS WEEK.
YOU
HAVE TO FIGHT IT IN BETWEEN.
LET'S LOOK AT THESE ELECTIONS
AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE, JIMMY, MAYBE WHAT YOU SAID WHERE
IT IS NOT WINNER TAKE ALL.
WE HAVE COMPUTERS, WE CAN COUNT
NOW, SO DOING IT PROPORTIONALLY WHEN THEY SAY IT IS DIFFICULT --
NO IT'S NOT.
THEY COULD FIGURE THAT OUT.
BUT AS YOU SAID, CENK,
UNTIL IT AFFECTS THE REPUBLICANS IT WON'T BE DONE.
I HAVE AN IDEA ON HOW TO MAKE THIS PRACTICAL.
AT WOLF-PAC.COM
WE WANT TO GET MONEY OUT OF POLITICS, BUT IT'S NOT JUST
ABOUT THAT.
WE WANT TO CALL FOR A CONVENTION, WHICH HAMILTON AND
THE OTHER FOUNDING FATHERS WERE IN FAVOR OF.
THEY SAID OVER AND
OVER AGAIN, YOU SHOULD AMEND AND ALTER YOUR CONSTITUTION
THROUGHOUT TIME.
SO THEY PUT IN TWO PLACE TO DO IT, ONE THROUGH
CONGRESS AND ANOTHER THROUGH A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION.
IT'S
NOT ABOUT JUST OUR PROPOSAL FOR THE CONVENTION, MY PROPOSAL
WOULD BE TO END UNLIMITED SPENDING THAT CORPORATIONS AND
RICH FOLKS CAN DO, GIVING THEM A DISPROPORTIONATE VOICE, ETC.
I
COULD GO INTO A LOT OF MY IDEAS.
BUT CONSERVATIVES WOULD ALSO BE
AT THAT CONVENTION, AND INDEPENDENTS AND LIBERTARIANS
AND EVERYONE IN BETWEEN, IT WOULD BE FOR ALL AMERICANS.
BUT THE GREEN PARTY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ON STAGE.
BUT
YOU CAN MAKE ALL THESE PROPOSALS JUST FOR ELECTION REFORM.
THERE ARE INTERESTING IDEAS CONSERVATIVES HAVE ON
ELECTION REFORM.
LIKE MAINE'S RANKED CHOICE VOTING.
I BET IF YOU HAD A CONVENTION AND HE WENT TO REPUBLICANS AND
SAID THIS IS A CONVENTION WHERE IT IS NOT YOUR STANDARD
POLITICIANS, THE REASON THEY HAVEN'T GOT IT PASSED IN ANY OF
THE RED STATES IS BECAUSE THEY THINK SO FAR THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE HAS HELPED US AND NOT YOU GUYS.
THERE IS ANOTHER REASON, WHICH I CAN DESCRIBE IF YOU'D LIKE.
I
HATE TO BE THE WET BLANKET, FOR SOME REASON I ALWAYS AM, IT'S
BECAUSE I RESPECT YOU ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT YOU CAN ACCEPT THAT
INFORMATION.
SOMETIMES LIKE WITH WOLF-PAC.COM WE KNOW SENATORS
WON'T WANT IT BECAUSE THEY LOVE HAVING SHOWERS OF MONEY ON THEM,
BUT THE STATE LEVEL POLITICIANS DON'T BENEFIT AS MUCH SO YOU CAN
CONVINCE THEM.
THE PROBLEM WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROPOSED
AMENDMENT IS THAT IN BOTH THE SENATE AND THE STATES THEY
BENEFIT, THERE ARE ENOUGH REPUBLICANS WHO BENEFIT.
THIS IS
A SECTION FROM THE FRAMERS' COUP --
THE SMALLER STATES ALSO BENEFIT FROM THE
MALAPPORTIONMENT.
SO THERE'S A SENSE THAT THE SMALLER STATES,
YOU HAVE TO VISIT THEM, YOU CAN'T JUST GO TO THE BIG CITIES,
BUT THEY RECEIVE MORE VOTES.
SMALL STATES HAVE A BIGGER SAY
WITH THE WAY THINGS ARE.
YOU COULD THEORETICALLY CONVINCE
THEM TO NULLIFY THAT ADVANTAGE BUT THAT IS A HARD SELL.
ALL THOSE POINTS ARE VALID BUT ON THE OTHER HAND THEY ALWAYS
SAY AN AMENDMENT IS IMPOSSIBLE, YET WE'VE HAD 27 OF THEM.
ALL I WANT TO DO IS DEMORALIZE PEOPLE.
IT IS NOT TO DISMISS JOHN'S POINT, THAT IS A REAL ISSUE, BUT
WHEN YOU GET TO ACTUAL VOTERS, AND DEPENDING ON HOW THE MAKEUP
OF THE CONVENTION WOULD BE, YOU COULD HAVE REAL HUMAN BEINGS IN
THERE INSTEAD OF CORPORATE ROBOTS, AND IF YOU HAD REAL
HUMAN BEINGS, IF YOU TALK TO ANYONE INCLUDING REPUBLICANS,
DOES THIS ELECTORAL COLLEGE MAKE SENSE?
YOU KNOW IT DOESN'T, THEY
KNOW IT DOESN'T.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD COME OUT OF THAT
CONVENTION, BUT I DO KNOW THAT ALL MOST EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY
THINKS WE SHOULD HAVE SOME SORT OF ELECTORAL FIX.
THEY KNOW
THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM, THAT'S HOW TRUMP WON, HE
SAID IT'S RIGGED -- REPUBLICANS SAID YES IT IS, PROGRESSIVE SAID
YES IT IS.
THERE ARE DISAGREEMENTS ON WHAT IT MEANS
TO BE RIGGED, ETC.
BUT AT A CONVENTION EVERYONE CAN PROPOSE
THEIR FIXED JUST ON ELECTION ISSUES, NOT ANYTHING ELSE, LET'S
SORT IT OUT.
BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE IS NO FIX, THAT'S AN ON
ACCEPTABLE ALTERNATIVE BECAUSE WE HAVE A HEAP OF PROBLEMS.