Film Courage: When was the first time you saw the film in its entirety with a large audience
and what was your reaction to their reaction? Joker Cinematographer Lawrence Sher, ASC: Well I saw it early early on
in a cut and it gave Todd [Phillips] some notes and and then I don't think I saw it for like
another two months well Todd took those notes and all the rest of the notes from
all the times and just really fine-tuned the movie and it was a screening for
Warner Brothers for like their worldwide distribution I thought it was just a
screening he was gonna have for a couple people Todd's like you want to see the
movie it's basically in its cut where I think it's nearly nearly final cut if
not close and as I guess sure and then when I went I went oh I didn't realize
it was like gonna be 400 people here and like not a test audience but like
actually the Warner Brothers distribution arm of like worldwide and I
was blown away I literally I when the movie ended I went it's frickin
masterpiece like and I wasn't just me like because I was a part of it in fact
I'm way harder on the movies I'm a part of and can rarely separate myself in a
real objective way to like watch it and get lost in it but I remember when he
does the stuff at the end and he's on top of the police car and it just felt
so powerful and so operatic that I just remember thinking god this is even
better than I thought it would be and I thought it would be pretty good and I
think helping you know the audience there and just really sensing the size
and the scope of the movie on that screen and Warner Brothers said we work
so it's a really big screen so seeing the power of that having just witnessed
it now on it editing monitors that were quite small yeah I was I was actually
quite blown away and then I thought oh jeez this thing could really be a hit
yeah were there reactions or not not amazingly here's the thing the funny
part about that was I was like because I turn to my wife who's there and I said
like halfway through or something like is this working for you because unlike a
comedy where people are laughing you really know like HANGOVER Movie I remember the
first time I start with an audience you were like oh boy this thing is
actually could be a really big hit because it was like raucous and you
could feel it in here anyway I turned to her and I said is
this working for you she goes it's amazing like loving I go alright good
because I'm feeling the same way you could sense the audience you could feel
their engagement you know you know you know when audiences are fidgeting
there's a lot of like things signs that you can tell with an audience to see if
it's working particularly a movie that you're not you're not looking for laughs
but you're looking for engagement sometimes that's hard to see but when
the movie ended I was expecting because also it was like Warner Brothers and
their distribution arm for there to be just like spontaneous clapping like I
was even expecting like a standing ovation and like there was none of that
and I went I was so weird and Todd goes no no trust me I have watch this with
just smaller audiences too they never they're usually just sit stuff and I
went right right right because then I remember it took like a day in which I
could finally digest it and then started talking to people I recognized that they
the common experience of the movie is that not one of like clapping but one of
like like digesting what they've just seen and being a little bit just frozen
and then a day later going oh my god that movie was this or this movie really
worked for me and so we had like whole reception afterwards with like
distribution people and from those people throughout the pitman throughout
that afterwards people would go oh my god this movie's amazing so I went oh
good it was working for everyone but it didn't have that natural thing that
happens sometimes at the end of a movie where there's like a sense of like
applause you know and all that kind of stuff so it was an interesting
experience in that regard but clearly it worked because you know they were really
high on it and all that stuff so yeah great yeah you're right it does take
what I mean I was still thinking about it I think two nights later yeah letters
friends and emails and stuff they're there they say that they go yeah I just
needed a day or two but now I recognize like it and then and this is you don't
get to a billion dollars without people going more than once generally speaking
there have been a lot of people I know you know and people I don't think
generally go see movies more than ones who have gone more than once - then
have it - like now know what the experience was because I think it was it
was a different I think it was different than anyone expected
certainly the trailer gave clues as to the tone of the movie but I think I
think one of the surprises was what the movie wasn't for the fans and what's
nice is that that was cool they were cool with that you know sometimes I mean
I see even now with just this new STAR WARS movie fans are just they have such
a relationship with these movies and and you know and so the people that were mad
at Rian Johnson are happy of what they made changes in the new version but the
people that love the Rian Johnson version are mad about what JJ Abrams is
like you can't please everyone so you but you recognize it like they have a
relationship with these characters in these movies so you have to be aware
that they're part of the experience and so I think even if you want to stand
outside of that you still have to have some interest into what their
experiences with the movie and I think I think what's interesting is that the I
think a lot of the fans and in that universe were happy that it was so
different and different unexpected darker like you know they weren't as
upset over the things that we thought they might be there's not enough action
it's not a comic book movie it doesn't have this it doesn't have that all the
things that may be in the back of your head you're going will the movie feel
too small well the movie not you know service this sort of crowd that is it
has an expectation of what a JOKER movie would be where all the things that I
think people really embraced and I think it's great for the movie industry at
large that a movie that you know isn't all those things can still make a
billion dollars on a lighter note I think there's like an old Saturday Night
Live skit with William Shatner or he like addresses yes crowd of Trekkies [Star Trek fans] yes
people it was a TV show you know but that it encompasses this it meant so
much that's right that's right we have relationships with movies are so
powerful and they're so good at moving you emotionally and and when they're
done well they really you know you have a connection with them and so and then
they become even more powerful as time goes by and you know and so listen I I
think you you have to make movies aware of your audience but not for your
audience right but I think you have to also be aware of that day that they
exist in there they're there they're part of the experience you know but you
hope that you don't necessarily cater everything to them because as a
filmmaker your job is to tell this story and and hope that if you tell it with
you know a very specific point of view that it will connect with audiences at
large were you aware that so many people that aren't necessarily into the comic
book genre would love the film I was my hope because I came at it from a person
who is not a huge comic book fan so my hope is like well my parents would see
it like they wouldn't necessarily go see you know ant-man but you know because
they would think of as a comic book movie but hopefully they would go see
this and enjoy it because they would it wouldn't simply exist under that heading
you know and with exists on its own so that was the hope and obviously you know
we can see they like what it is I thought as we're making it for sure that
he goes we were making it I was saying I was for sure going that audience it
doesn't like car movies will like this but now we got to make sure we're not
you know that the audience that loves them won't feel like what the hell is
this but but I sort of knew that what we were making would service both because I
thought well first we're making a good movie but I think in a weird way we're
making a movie that's very much like a comic book movie in the truest sense in
the way that like kids when they're 10 years old would have this like very
personal experience with the actual comic book right where it's just images
on a piece of paper with writing that
you have to then bring your own imagination
into the sort of deep emotion of it and just like a novel would and I thought
like oh you know but it's a picture novel right so literally it's like if we
can create these engaging images and we and that in a way we were gonna create
something that maybe a very much a comic book movie or certainly a movie that
feels like a graphic novel so you know and and giving credit to your I think
with sociology teacher you mentioned that he said ya know these are a product
of our decade or been butchering what he said no I wouldn't I wasn't a film major
in college I was an economics major but I I got into film late and then started
taking some classes because it was an economics major I was always interested
in sort of cause and effect of things so he was a sociology and a film professor
he did both and it was it was a basically that the construct of the
class was every movie can be seen as a product of the time in which it was made
Ryan week in that class we literally looked at the way three amigos
represented like iran-contra and like that and it was like and so I'm always
fascinated literally to this day I've never forgotten like what Richard
Slotkin who was the name of the professor it said because now I always
look at the like even a year in movies right and I look at them and I see what
are the trends here right and like what are the trends that that we see in what
movies are being made you know I remember I can't remember if it was like
the year of the revenant it was like also the year of that all is lost movie
with Robert Redford and there was like another movie and they're all movies
about like people lonely Pete like alone trying to survive under great odds like
and it was like well what is that saying about our society right now or certainly
like what does it say that over the last 11 years right like Ironman one came out
in 2008 let's say right right and that kind of like restarted the whole Marvel
franchise right and and this is just a theory but like under
the same principle that this professor said is the GFC [2008 Global Financial Crisis] happened right we now
have like watched an entire nation of like and world of bankers and like
irresponsible practices dismantle the economy and nobody got taken a task
there was no justice at large there was no justice nobody went into prison right
fines all this stuff and nobody literally got pulled off in handcuffs
outside of maybe one guy and and I go so we live in a world that has an injustice
well what better place to show to like have superhero movies become the most
you know popular genre of movie for the last ten years because we live in a
world in which I think often we don't see justice so what you saw where do you
find justice you find justice in superhero movies but you're not getting
justice from politicians you're not getting justice from from you know
judges and lawyers you're getting justice from like a literal superhero
they're the only ones who can give us justice which isn't even realistic
because they don't exist so we've created this thing in which we
now want to go see justice in movies because we're not getting in in real
life so then there are microcosms that every year in moviemaking so what is
what our movies trying to tell us about society and how are they reflecting
society and I've always believed every movie is a reflection of the director's
personal point of view and they're a reflection of the society at large
because I think we all make movies in the context of when they're made you
know and so so I'm always fascinated by that for sure
you