just a few days before voting begins to
decide the next Labour leader we're in
Dudley North a Labour seat since its
creation in 1997 it was taken by the
Conservatives in December as that red
wall came tumbling down withers the
candidates to be the next Labour leader
Rebecca long Bailey
she went to Catholic school in Chester
and became a solicitor in the northwest
before her elections of parliament five
years ago Jeremy Corbyn who she gave ten
out of ten called her our candidate for
leader kirsten he got into a state
Grammar School in Surrey which went
private while he was there he became a
barrister and then head of the Crown
Prosecution Service for which he was
knighted also elected in 2015 he is the
current bookies favourites to be leader
Lisa Nandi went to comprehensive school
in Manchester worked in politics and the
charity sector before her election ten
years ago having failed to bring down
jeremy corbyn's leadership in 2016 she
says she now wants to bring labour home
well
our audience tonight is made up of
people who voted labour at the last
election plus party members who will get
a vote when the official ballot opens
next Monday and we also have some former
labour voters who the next leader will
need to win back if they have any hope
of returning the parties of power so
let's hear from some of them now in you
left labour at the last election why
what's the problem I think there was a
failure incredible leadership the
policies were too fantastical foreign
policy felt anti-western too often and
it was the culture of bullying with him
a Labour Party I'm interested as a
former labour voter about who's going to
get my vote back I don't think the
leader was authentic I don't think he
was integral I don't think he was honest
okay how about you Tom Devane I have
been a lifelong labour supporter who
sadly voted conservative this time
because of brexit I did it with a very
heavy heart because my dad was a miner
for 50 years Labour councillor I went
into the ballot box and put the X on and
said sorry dad and so I want to know how
you're gonna win me back sorry
that's emotional for you it's very hard
thing to do too you know you feel like a
traitor to you it's a mining community
I'm from panic in the West Midlands so
it's just you just feel awful but I was
a leave voter and I didn't get from the
Labour Party that you were gonna support
me all right well let's see who can win
you back let's get our first question
who is fraud which is from Paul Nowell
Paul them I'm a mental health nurse and
a trade union rep over in Liverpool and
my question to you is are we going to be
wise or and learn from our mistakes
or will would be oh we try Corbin ISM
again Rebecca long Bailey the most
devastating defeats that we've seen in a
hundred
and we lost seats like this in Dudley
north and right across the West Midlands
and there were many reasons for this
defeat 52 out of the 54 seats that we
lost to relieve seats but we also need
to recognize the other myriad of reasons
as to why our voters lost trust in us we
had transformational policies in that
manifesto but no message that brought
them all together
we weren't trusted on issues such as
tackling anti-semitism being united as a
party and then there was dealing with
media attacks against our leader and
indeed the policies themselves but
ultimately there was brexit the elephant
in the room though I'm from a leave
constituency and I could feel the anger
from my voters many leave voters thought
we were trying to overturn the result of
the referendum and weren't respecting
their wishes and at the same time were
playing games in Parliament instead of
listening to what our communities wanted
we can't make that mistake again we saw
that that lack of trust took down so
many other things with it and we were
the party with the policies to make
people's lives better so Paul's asking
you about Corbett realize that Paul is
asking about Corbin ISM which bits of
Corbin ISM will you ditch in terms of
the transformational policies I won't
apologize for wanting to make my
community's life better and the life of
everyone else in the United Kingdom but
for our policies to succeed we need to
have a message that brings people
together around aspiration abound
raising up everybody's quality of life
and unfortunately I think in this
election campaign we didn't explain our
policies and we didn't prove that we
were trying to improve that quality of
life okay Kirsten well they asked the
question is we've got to learn because
we're all searching for the reason we
lost the last general election and we've
heard a number of reasons from the
audience that we can all take up and we
will but we've lost four in a row we've
lost four elections in a row and if we
lose the next one
probably in 2024 then the Labour Party
our party will be out of power for a
longer period than any time since the
second world war now if you're in the
labour party if you want to lead the
Labour Party to change the lives of
millions of people for the better we've
got to focus on winning that general
election the four reasons that were
given in the contributions earlier but
the four that were coming up on the door
if we're honest about it the leadership
of a Labour Party fairly or unfairly
because I do think was a media campaign
that vilified the leader of the Labour
Party brexit came up of course it did
it came up in different ways to be
honest because what was said in places
like Dudley was different to what was
said in Scotland
there's nothing was that your fault a
man I'll come back to that the manifesto
overload
I think people work so much saying I
don't like what's in your manifesto cuz
there was some good stuff in it they
just thought it had gone to a tipping
point where they couldn't believe it and
I'm very sad to say particularly in some
areas anti-semitism came up but both as
a values issue and a competency issue
and we got a tackle or each of those but
we've also got to recognize that none of
those on their own explain why we've
lost four in a row so it's actually an
even deeper soul search I think than
just this idea of identify one thing
that went wrong in the last election it
was always otherwise it was plain
sailing I personally think he's wrong
it's a deeper soul-searching than that
but we need but you all say leadership
came up you don't say what was wrong
with it what was wrong with jeremy
corbyn's leadership well I think firstly
I do think he was vilified in the press
and certainly when I knocked on doors
what was coming back at me was some of
that villa producer he wasn't wrong but
no I'm not saying that what I'm saying
is it came up and it part of it came up
as vilification but on jeremy corbyn I
think it's fair to say that what he
brought to the Labour Party in 2015 was
really important because he made it
clear that we're a party that opposes
cuts to public services to these anti
austerity and has a green new deal
that's hardwired into everything we do
and there's a tendency in political
party or any organisation when something
goes wrong to say everything must have
been wrong then and we better forget it
all I personally think that's a mistake
we build on the important foundations
but the manifesto that really matters is
the one in 2024 we'll get as we must
persuade people with that Leeson Andy
will you lead Calvinism behind well I
think this is existential for the Labour
Party and I launched my campaign by
saying we change or we die not with any
pleasure but because I've heard the
emotional outpouring that you just gave
voice to so perfectly for ten years now
in my constituency in Wigan and people
are looking at us and
saying this is really the last chance
we've been losing for a long time 2010
2015 2017 but 2019 was no ordinary
election dudley sand well Stoke
Mansfield Bowles / get lling these are
places where labor runs through people's
DNA as much as their family history and
the fact that we got to the point where
we were going around doors with people
saying not you not now not this time
that we had people voting Tory in order
to tell us that we had to change that
was a real moment for us we had an
unpopular leader that is true and we had
an unpopular leadership team I was young
popular he was a popular for a number of
reasons I think but the main underlying
sense was that he just wasn't for people
and he wouldn't stand up for people but
let me say this that that comes at the
long end of a process that has been
happening in the Labour Party for 40
years now for decades what we've seen is
industry disappearing from many towns
across this country young people having
to leave the scars visible across our
high streets and our communities and in
the face of that a political system that
has largely shrugged his shoulders and
said this is progress I want you to know
that I have heard you and I will make it
my mission to bring labour home to you
Paul you are you hearing what you want
to hear I am from Lisa yeah I think we
need to move it forward I was knocking
on doors in West world and people were
saying exactly the same they were just
totally totally disarmed and it did get
quite it got quite upsetting do you know
what after Street after Street you were
getting told that people didn't want to
vote for labour anymore that you would
drop from this manifesto well there were
a number of policies that weren't
deliverable you were dropped there's not
one that I would drop and I'll explain
why because there were policies that
were deliverable within five years that
would go into the manifesto so Green
Industrial Revolution for example
investing in our education service but
there were all the policies that were
part of a longer-term vision so the
four-day week is that a critical example
of that we'd never have achieved that in
five years it was a long-term aspiration
after we didn't prove productivity
through investing
in an industrial strategy and when we
secured trade union representation in
our workplaces but putting it in the
manifesto and packaging it in a way that
we could deliver it under an
ex-government
confused people and I think that's why
we need to do we exactly think the way
that we package our policies but I just
want to come back on a point that that's
been made about continuing Corbin ISM
and I'd say this to any Labor voter or
labor party member there's no such thing
as Corbin ISM there's our labor values
if we believe in building more council
homes investing in our futures through
education and industrial strategy that's
essential ISM that's not Corbin ISM and
we shouldn't throw away those policies
okay hold up to it timely question now
from Tamika Smith who's from Birmingham
what do we know for Caroline Flack staff
what do you think that says by modern
britain kirsten was it what do you think
of modern britain I did following on
from Caroline flax death yes what do you
think it says about modern Britain well
I think firstly it's tragic and all of
our thoughts I think have to go to her
her friends and her family I think it
really shook the whole nation I think it
tells us a lot about social media and
about the media there is just yards of
abuse on social media and it's about
time that those that provide the
platform took responsibility for what's
on it this has been going on a long time
there's abuse this hatred and it's not
only Caroline's case there are
youngsters that are committing suicide
as well because of what's on social
media now I worked when I was director
of Public Prosecutions we were trying to
persuade social media to take
responsibility and their response was
unless it's to do with terrorism we're
not going to do so that has got to
change now and I think the mainstream
media as well has to stop amplifying it
because they've been amplifying it so I
think this shines a talk really into the
soul of the nation in terms of how we
interact with God with each other on
social media there have been many
questions about why the CPS was
prosecuting her when her former partner
wasn't supporting that prosecution as a
former head of Public Prosecutions can
you explain them no of course I can't
because I've not been the Director of
Public Prosecutions for ten years but
she should have no idea see I
not going to make the mistake 10 years
out of office of now commenting on a
file I've never seen and the
circumstance I don't know I'm also not
going to make mistake of attributing
whatever this what's behind this tragedy
to one thing I don't know why this
happened and I don't want to pretend I
know should anyone look into this well
of course I mean I'm sure there will be
an inquest of people will look into it
but but one thing I at one thing I think
is wrong and people in all sorts of
walks of life do this they do a job and
then five ten years fifteen yet years
later they pretend they know what was on
the file of the person who is looking at
the moment and that's the wrong thing to
do but also that there's a wide range of
possible reasons why this tragedy
happened and I'm not going to presume
but it is one and not the other this is
tragic and I and for the family I think
the last thing they want is people like
me coming on and pontificating about
what may or may not have been let's just
give them the space they need to grieve
of course then there'll be an
investigation into what what happened
and rightly so but let's just be a bit
human about this and bear in mind that
her former management company had been
very critical of that particular topic
which is why we're raising yeah well let
me support care on that because I don't
I didn't know Caroline and I don't want
to speculate or make anything worse for
her family I've had deaths in my
constituency often in very difficult
circumstances over the last ten years
and the last thing people need is me
speculating what I will say is that
there is it is very difficult to be in
public life at the moment because there
is an unkindness that's crept into our
public debate that I think is
detrimental to all of us and actually
that isn't just felt in public life it's
also felt by a lot of people living out
their lives in our communities so a few
years ago there was a case of a mum with
a son with disabilities who felt she had
no choice but to kill herself and her
son and it turned out in that case that
had been sustained bullying and
harassment of that family for a long
time with very little support so I think
we need to do two things the first is
that we need to step in and provide much
greater support to people across this
country we all go through hard times in
our lives we're all going to need extra
help we need to be really clear that
that is not a weakness
looking for help is a strength and when
you ask you'll get that support and
secondly I think we need to start
challenging the public discourse in this
country it's not just that it is abusive
and unkind it's also that we found
multiple ways in the last decade to
divide ourselves from each other we're a
better country than that would have us
believe let's pull together and move
forwards together Rebekah long baby is
that are there specific things
government should do about this
beyond exhorting people to be better
people definitely and I don't want to
comment on the case of Caroline other
than to say that I'm shocked and that my
thoughts are with her friends and family
I know they wanted their privacy to be
respected but there's a huge issue to
look at in terms of online bullying and
social media companies and the way that
the press certainly the tabloids respond
to that and amplify that I think we need
to ensure that the government puts
pressure on the social media companies
to tackle online abuse on their
platforms but I also think that the
government needs to press ahead with the
second stage of the Leveson inquiry
about examining the role of the media
within society in a free press but also
upholding ethical and moral principles
and you know I'd say this because we
have become and certainly not in our
interactions physically with each other
but certainly online we've became quite
an oppressive society when you look at
the likes of to it well have a whole
ream of stuff to read when I go online
later on that a probably shouldn't look
at what it costs nothing to be kind and
that comes from leadership both in
government and both in public life we're
better than that we know that's not what
our society represents how do you feel
when you go online and read that
sometimes it's funny some people
obsessed with my eyebrows one guy did a
ruler a picture of my eyebrows and a
ruler because I've got quite expressive
eyebrows and said look how far away
Rebecca's eyebrows are for my face I
just want to pick up on what Beck is
saying because it is really important
this hatred this division actually also
puts people off putting themselves
forward to do anything in public life so
many people I know say I'm not going to
step up and do anything because I fear
this abuse and this hatred and so it
isn't
only corrosive and divisive in itself
and bitter it really affects people
leads to suicides and actually it puts
good people off putting themselves
forward and it means that we don't have
all the talent we should have in all the
places we should have them okay we must
move on we're gonna move on to another
topic that has really gripped this
Labour leadership debate perhaps
surprisingly the question is for Moira
Hampton who's from Leicester and who
says she voted labour in every election
since 1979
thank you does the trans rights issue
potentially could it possibly lead to
division and possible alienation of
female voters is it just perhaps another
issue of unity listen Andy you've signed
this pledge that is very controversial
and this weekend at a at a meeting you
were asked would a person convicted of
child rape who now identifies as a woman
be better in a female prison you said
yes
yeah well I said that people have the
right to self define and that if you've
self defined then you have the right to
be in the prison that matches your
gender but what you don't have the right
to do is put other people at risk of
harm we've never had violent offenders
allowed to be in prison with nonviolent
offenders putting them at risk and
actually I think this is a really
important moment for us as a party
because I represent a constituency in
Wigan with a very high rate of domestic
violence I understand clearly and loudly
the need of women in this country for
safe spaces not just when their
immediate risk but for a lot of the
women that I represent because they will
always feel at times at risk of harm and
this is important and when I work for
the charity Centerpoint we spent a lot
of time grappling with the issues of how
we got not just the policies but the
practices in place to keep the young
people in our hostels safe from people
who would want to harm them but I do not
accept that this has to become a
zero-sum game against the rights of
people who I also represent in Wigan a
young person going through the gender
recognition Act process at the moment
who has been bullied and stigma
whose family every time I see them I'm
not sure we're going to survive for much
longer with very little support who need
every ounce of empathy and compassion
that I could not say is it transphobic
to want what are called safe spaces for
women that exclude trans women who
identify as women but who may still have
male genitalia for example it's not at
all transphobic to want safe spaces and
we have to take the heat out of this
conversation and cast a little more
light on it for most people there will
be ways of providing safe spaces that
are inclusive and we can navigate our
way through the complexities of this in
a way that is decent and respectful to
all sides but let me just say this well
sorry Christian let me just say this as
well is that there's been a tendency in
the labour party and actually in public
debate generally in recent years to go
straight from naught to 60 at the
beginning of a debate and say this is
here this is there you pick a side and
and whichever side you're on we're going
to argue it out until one side wins and
the other side is crushed we are better
than that as a party and part of me
standing for the leadership of this
party is about standing up for the level
of public debate we deserve we can do
better than this right but you and
Rebecca long barely have signed a pledge
that supports the expulsion from the
Labor Party of those who expressed
bigoted transphobic views and it defines
various organizations such as a woman's
place which calls for women's safe
spaces as transphobic so I so that kind
of kind of just address up directly
because I think there are people in
those organizations who will be
perfectly considered and respectful
towards others and the only bit of that
pledge that gave me pause for thought
was about prescribing organizations its
individual behavior that matters and if
you if you are someone who wants to have
a challenging discussion about providing
safe spaces that is absolutely right I
welcome that in the party but if you're
someone who denies the right of trans
people to exist then no meaningful
dialogue is possible Rebecca long Bayley
these organizations want safe spaces
what they describe is do you think that
they should be expelled from the labor
party at all no and there's no
incompatible
with trying to stand up for the rights
of trans people and trying to stand up
for the rights of women and protecting
them in safe space is that that is
enshrined under the Equality like when
she appears to have the room to change
that in any way but what we have been
talking about in this debate and I want
to take the toxicity out of this is
recognizing the often long and
dehumanizing process that many of our
trans community have to go to in order
to identify as either a trans man or a
trans woman and that relates to the
gender recognition act and making that
process less dehumanizing Kirsten the
trans community have been subject to
abuse and vilification comes off the
back of the topic we were just
discussing for a long time and the Labor
Party stands against abuse and
vilification of any part of our
community trans rights are human rights
the gender recognition Act was a step in
the right direction but it's clear that
we need to go further than that other
countries have gone further and I think
we can go further but we're not going to
make progress here if we treat this as a
political football batted around by
different parts within our party or the
wider movement we owe it to the trans
community and to everybody else to grow
up on this and have a better debate
about how we go forward why do you not
sign this particular pledge that the
other two have what did you see as a
problem I signed the lgbtq+ the labor
pledge on this which I thought pictured
it right and I don't want this to be a
political football I'm not suggesting
those behind the other pledge
I've got anything other than the best of
intentions do you think was anything
wrong with that
other place that you didn't sign you're
tempting me to do the very thing I'm
saying we shouldn't do that this is a
really serious made a choice about which
pledge to sign and I'm trying to work
out this is a very serious issue with a
community that clearly need the law to
be extended and better protection let's
have a proper debate about that rather
than who signed which pledge that isn't
helping in this debate it's treating it
as if there are two or three this the
pledge as you know is create reversal of
this question of expulsion and I'm
wondering whether that's why you didn't
sign it
I'm not going to get into this slippery
slider slope where that we're in
conflict with each other we are running
positively as can't date
to lead the Labour Party we're trying
not to take lumps out of each other and
attack each other publicly if we can do
that I think that standing or privately
but it's dancing Goods what people in
what a people party in our movement I
think our country want is a united
labour party that looks like it can go
into government if we can model that in
the way we treat each other in these
debates and in this leadership contest I
think that is a good thing and so
tribute I would say to both of the other
candidates that we've managed to do that
so far we find out what a couple of
people the audience make of this
I believe that safe spaces of a woman
are really important not to say that
trans people and trans women don't
deserve to be protected but I feel like
if we're taking away from women then the
probably not gonna be able to speak out
and a lot more cases of domestic
violence and sexual assault won't go
reported as a Labour Party member I
would just like clarity from cares to
why he didn't sign the pledge well I
think he C said why he's not going to
address that particular question so we
won't go back to him on that but we'll
leave it there for now thank you very
much indeed well let's hear from two
people now who want to question the
candidates on the subject of money
first Peter last word a lifelong labour
voter from starfish Peter hello
how would your key economic policies
differ if it's all from those in the
last Labour manifesto okay and related
to that Katarina goncalves is a student
from reg
thank you what is your plan to tackle
the wealth gap between the rich and poor
Kirsten
let me take the first question and then
the second one I think in the last
manifest day we had a lot about
solidarity and the Labour Party stands
for solidarity with people who need our
solidarity and rightly so but I don't
think we had enough about opportunity we
characterized everybody as either the 1%
at the top the elite and rigging
everything all those with absolutely
nothing and there's a vast gap in
between and it's called opportunity and
that is the Labour dream my dad worked
in a factory my mum was a nurse and the
Labour dream
for them was that the next generation
would have better opportunities and I
think that we need to rebuild that part
of our narrative our core message to
people because I think they for years
and years and years that sustained the
Labour Party this sense that the next
generation would have better
opportunities and it slipped away in the
last ten years so far as the second
question is concerned we're one of the
wealthiest countries in the world and
yet the economy clearly isn't working
for people it clearly isn't
you've got insecure jobs low paid jobs
you've got regional an inequality which
is really really deep and what we're
doing with our economy is damaging the
environment and that has to be tackled
head-on by an incoming Labour government
by saying this got to be a fundamental
shift of power resource and opportunity
and I would make that central to my
economic thinking I think if you want to
make the sort of fundamental change that
I do in this country where you have
proper public services and people who
don't fear growing old or their parents
growing old without dignity or care then
you have to be honest with people about
how you're going to pay for it
and we all stood on a manifesto that
said we would put 5 percent on the top
rate of income tax that seems right to
me that those who can pay the most do so
but actually if you look at where the
wealthy put their money it's in assets
so a very very minimum we ought to be
saying that will bring wealth taxes into
line with income taxes so we don't just
keep squeezing working people secondly I
think we need a different relationship
with business I said this week that I
wanted to introduce a social licence for
business because how can it possibly be
that you have workers in Dunfermline
sleeping in tents who work for Amazon
while last week Jeff Bezos bought 165
million dollar mansion with his loose
change we've got to support good
businesses who do make a contribution
who do tackle climate change who do
support their workforce by introducing a
social licence so that those who don't
face petrol penalties for it and finally
we've got to do something about the
hidden poverty taxes in this country it
costs more to be poor for your insurance
for your credit rating just even to
access your own money through a cash
machine it costs far more to be poor so
we've got to come at this from both ends
and show people that we're there for
them
at the most difficult times of their
lives Rebecca long Bailey do you know I
was on the train on the way here tonight
and I was talking to a young lad sat
next to me from Lancaster and he was
going all the way down to the south
coast he was about 20 and he got a job
as an electrician on a rig and he was so
excited he was realizing his aspirations
and I got off the train and I was dead
happy for him and then I got really
depressed because his story isn't true
of many people here in Dudley
I think unemployment is twice the
national rate at the moment
qualification rates are below national
average we've got the most regional
regionally unequal country in the whole
of Western Europe our economy is not
working so of all the candidates I've
got a plan to fix that I've talked about
having a real and comprehensive
industrial strategy to reindustrialize
places like the West Midlands and create
the jobs of the future
I've talked about investing in homes
council homes and private homes to spur
on the renewed prosperity that we need
to see I've talked about a cradle to
grave education service to make sure
that whatever age you are wherever you
are in life you have the opportunity to
aspire and to do well in life they're
the foundations of revitalizing our
economy and that's the only way we'll
see prosperity increase here in the
United Kingdom system are just wreck
along Baili really have something over
you on this because she's suggesting
she's the one with the plans no I don't
think so I think we're all putting
forward our plans and what we're saying
is that the case we're making is what we
think is right for our party our
movement and for our country of course
there's a massive overlap if you take an
issue like Amazon earning I think ten
point nine billion pounds in revenue
last year and paying two percent tax
I suspect the three of us are going to
say this the same thing about it that
you think you agree with each other on
anything could I say where I think that
there is a difference because I agree
with care I think on all of those things
we do fundamentally agree but I've spent
the last 10 years including the last
three off the front bench and in the
country trying to build a plan back for
places like Dudley and actually I think
there is far more going for Dudley than
you just heard I think there is huge
you'll hear real assets not least the
warmth and the pride and the skill and
the commitment of the people in this
community which matches my home in Wigan
and what I want to see is not just a
plan conceived and executed by a small
group of people behind a desk in central
London but real power going out to those
areas so that we can decide for
ourselves where that investment goes how
that money is spent and get the jobs in
here that we need
we can talk about the ills of our broken
economic model and what needs to change
but we need to have a comprehensive plan
because it's not enough talking about a
plan you have to have worked up the
detail and I've spent the last four
years working behind the scenes on that
detail whether it was our green
Industrial Revolution whether it was our
industrial strategy a plan for our steel
sector investing in our automotive
industry I was creating the jobs of the
future and I'm devastated that we didn't
win this general election because I know
that prospects the people here in Dudley
would have been very different to what
they are today
right I just want to get on to some
quickfire questions very briefly about
policy and a couple of other things as
well that might shed a little bit of
light on where you're coming from on
some of those other issues so we'll go
from Rebecca first would you
decriminalize cannabis no but I think we
need to have a conversation nationally
about this because the rules yes no it's
fine okay so what are two words kiss
Donna would you decriminalize cannabis
I wouldn't immediately I have supported
schemes where cannabis possession is not
arrested you're not arrested for it you
know prosecuted for at night I believe
in that no let's have a proper review
thank you
yes or no you know yes or no but one
word in a referendum on keeping the
monarchy would you vote to keep it or
scrap it Lisa Nandi and well I'm a
Democrat so I would vote to scrap it but
actually let me just say I know it's a
sort of but this is not the priorities
of country we've just lost left the EU
without any kind of talk about where we
go we get that it's not top priority but
in a reference Kirsten no I wouldn't I
think I'd bounce size it and by the way
it didn't come up on the doorsteps we've
been talking about why we left the
refere why we lost the election what we
need to do next this isn't one of the
priorities for the leader Labor Party
Rebecca Bailey you you wouldn't vote to
abolish demonic I'd quite like to see
Queen Megan at some point okay fine
right this is a yes or no would you
still provide free broadband for all
Keerthana yes no I mean they'd really
open up because behind that question
lies something massive which is for ten
years there's been an ambition to have
broadband across the United Kingdom and
it hasn't happened and something needs
to be done about it so we need a more
grown-up debate about this than just
yes/no rapid-fire quite frankly it comes
down to yes or no whether you put in
we're gonna go on strike free broadband
or not rubbish it these yes/no questions
I think I agree with the broadband
policy because we were investing in
upgrading our economy and improving
productivity and as a result we were
including people who couldn't afford
broadband so I do support the principle
but I think we need to explain it better
to our voters listen Andy so digital
infrastructure is really really central
in this country when my friends come to
visit me from London they just cannot
believe that I have to go instantly and
the road to get a signal and so and I
think it's a really important policy but
let's remember the language of
priorities so I'd start with buses
before broadband
fine last one and I want a name for this
who is the greatest labor leader of the
last 50 years Rebecca long Bailey I
don't know I mean obviously you have to
say Clement Attlee because it was the
National Labor government
oh I don't know that since nine same MP
was fun cologne I'll give you that it
was the MP for solvent you don't have an
answer okay
I'm tempted to go for Wilson because he
managed to get all of the party to come
in behind him and unite him and I think
we need a bit of that going forward all
labour leaders have brought things to
our party that matter in different ways
and that mean we're all I think we all
gonna go on strike for yesterday
greatest Labour leader of last 50 is
that since 1970s and no Clement Attlee
well I'm hoping that we're about to
elect her in a few weeks time okay
mentioning everybody that of course in
the Ashcroft poll of labour members they
said it was Jeremy Corbyn and of
ordinary voters they said it was Tony
Blair two names that didn't come up at
all from our three leadership candidates
I want to hear from the audience now we
got in our audience people who were
labour voters but who deserted the party
at the last election what do you make of
what you're hearing Graham you left
I voted Lib Dem this time and frankly it
was because of the leadership and I
really did think that you were not going
to win anyway
and but are you hearing anything I've
heard from the three candidates tonight
all very good candidates but I'm looking
for the candidate who is going to once
they've been elected move towards the
centre because that is where the votes
are they are not hard on the left there
in the centre so I'm wondering which one
of those three is going to do that I
think I think it's Kier stamina but
that's personal view thank you
well do you want to just briefly is it
u-kiss farm are you the person who's
going to move the party back to the
centre I'm the person that wants to
unite our party to be the most effect
of opposition we can possibly be and to
forge our path to victory of the next
general election and they're my three
priorities so that we can actually win
this country and change this country for
the better which I suspect and I hope
would persuade you to vote labor again
okay um how about you you you also left
the party lost notion yes I did that's
the first time I have ever bought did
not love them and labor this is not just
me a lot of the Asians around our
central area Tom Watson area the main
issue was anti-semitism
can I get commitment from you that
that's going to be your first priority
to sort that out that has a upset every
community yes it came up on every door
that I knocked on as well in many
different constituencies around the
country and the reason I think is
because it's existential for the Labor
Party we with a party that gave this
country the race relations act if we
want to go out and build a more
compassionate fair and equal society
free from discrimination we have to live
those values ourselves I absolutely take
your point on we got this on the
doorstep if you're anti-semitic you
shouldn't be in the labor party it's as
simple as that
and if I were leader if I believed the
relay party aren't make it my personal
responsibility to deal with this because
leadership makes a massive difference in
this if the leader of the party takes a
clear stand and says I want to see the
cases on my desk a run a big
organization I know what he's like when
you have a line of sight on something
that really matters and I make it my
business to move this on and also to
rebuild the relations with the Jewish
remember because we have to do that
before we will get an audience to be
able to talk about anything else
[Applause]
believable there's an Frankel all new I
said was my favorite MP so it was
devastating in this election campaign to
knock on doors and find that many within
the Jewish community just didn't trust
us anymore and I hope that all of us and
I think we all will will take robust
action on anti-semitism because we
haven't dealt with it properly within
the party we've got to adopt all of the
EHR C's recommendations when they report
back to the party I think
we need to have an independent
complaints process for all forms of
discrimination not just anti-semitism
that speeds the process up and that
people have faith in and I think that we
need to rebuild trust by educating our
membership on this issue and also
reaching out to the Jewish community and
their organization just on this very
briefly did either of you who has served
in the Shadow Cabinet consider resigning
over this matter and if not why not I
mean you think what jeremy corbyn tried
to introduce was anti-semitic
why didn't you resign over this I
thought I thought that what he was
trying to introduce anti-semitic
quotation that was put to you about
Israel the foundation of Israel being a
racist and I have looked at what Jeremy
actually said and saying that Israel is
a racist endeavor is anti-semitic under
the IRA definition which is Jeanine the
actions of any government and saying
that their policies of races is a
different story the British government
and their treatment of the Windrush
generation for example that's a racist
I took the decision that I had to speak
out against it publicly which I did and
speak out against it in the shadow
cabinet which I did and I think that's
very important Lisa of course was
outside of the shadow cabinet she spoke
up against it publicly I did I did both
actually I spoke up against it when I
was in the Shadow Cabinet and one of the
reasons that I didn't return to the
shadow cabinet is because I got the very
strong impression from the leadership of
the party that we were not going to take
this seriously and when I was forced to
choose I stood with the Jewish community
in solidarity because that was the right
thing to do
my name is Vida Sampson and I work for
the NHS a long time ago I also worked in
residential and I now give my time to
the homeless by cooking them a hot meal
and you know it is terrible to know that
people in this country which is so rich
and there's some lovely people in this
country we need to work with each other
and the main thing that is lacking is
communication we need to go back to the
community and see how it worked in the
beginning and if it takes doesn't matter
how long and doesn't matter who whether
you're a man or a woman or you come from
the North Pole this is what we need to
do to get our country going thank you
very much yes we've spoken rightfully a
lot about anti-semitism but what about
the rights of the Palestinian people and
I want to hear what you guys think of
that right we're gonna have to be
briefed on this rights of the
Palestinian people one second
I'm sorry Krishna we're all revolt no I
mean it's frustrating I know I know okay
so I've been the vice chair and chair of
labour Friends of Palestine in the
Middle East for eight of the ten years
that I've been in Parliament and it has
never been impossible to stand up for
the rights of the Palestinian people
whilst not being anti-semitic that is
the plain truth you can do both you can
stand for a two-state solution for the
rights of the Palestinians and for the
right of Israel to exist can I just say
this as well though that this that
contribution just there is exactly the
country that I believe in and it's the
country that I know we are and we can be
and we are a better country than Boris
Johnson would have us believe
and that is why labor has to go out with
boldness and ambition and courage
because we know we're better than this
and we're gonna take the fight out into
the country win the argument get into
government and change this situation for
good
Osama we could stand up and we should
stand up the Palestinian rights
and that can perfectly well be done
without being anti-semitic this these
two things are not in conflict and the
suggestion that they are is just wrong I
think but you're absolutely right to
raise this because we do have a
dispossessed dispossessed a Palestinian
people and we have an insecure Israel
and I don't think anybody can pretend
that this is the state of affairs that
is possibly right in the world and we
need to do something about it I did just
also want to comment on your
contribution and thank you so much for
that just about the spirit in which we
have to come together but also know
because I owe that and I think you're
the community the challenge for our
party the immediate challenge is whether
we can pull together
stop taking lumps out of each other stop
dividing and actually recognize the
incredible force we are with five
hundred and eighty thousand members the
biggest political party in Europe what
an unstoppable force we could be if we
united as that fighting force ready to
fight that next general election very
standing up for the rights of
Palestinians it's the right thing for
our party to do and we've always done
that and I believe in a secure Israel
alongside a viable state of Palestine
but I also think that the conflict must
be settled on the basis of international
law human rights and social justice
eighty percent of Palestinians of
reliant on humanitarian aid so we should
continue calling for an end to the
blockade and the illegal settlements
that we see in the Palestinian West Bank
and in Gaza and I'll never apologize for
standing up for the rights of
Palestinian people but at no point
should ever be conflated with
anti-semitism they should always be two
separate issues
with all those hands still up I'm very
sorry we are out of time we are going to
have to leave it I'd like to thank our
audience here in Dudley for their
questions and their attendance and their
respects for everyone in the room thank
you to our candidates who joined us here
in Dudley voting to decide which one of
them becomes leader starts next Monday
the result will be revealed on April the
fourth from all of us here a very good
night
[Applause]
[Music]